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Why the Need for Blu-Ray and Hi-Def DVD

Discussion in 'TVs' started by meansizzler, May 17, 2005.

  1. meansizzler

    meansizzler
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    What Puzzles me is that I have the 1080P (1440*1080) version of Terminator 2 on a DVD 9 and it's only 7GB in Size, it Uses the WMV-HD Codec (VC1) which requires no extra hardware/codecs to play other than a pc with windows media player. But the MPEG 2 HD version of the same film is 18GB and is a pain in the ass to play, I expect the same size for the H.264 Codec Version, which is what they will use on a Blue Ray Disc, see it's not all about the size of the disc.

    Bottom Line:

    Why they bring out 54GB Medium is beyond me when you can fit a high definition film on a Normal DVD, without any special hardware/software necessary, just bring out Standalone Payers while can play WMV-HD files off a Normal DVD and then to Hell with Blu-Ray and Hi-Def DVD...and MS just proved that you can get Hi Def games on on Normal DVD by bringing out the Xbox 360, Blu-Ray and Hi-Def DVD are just a waste of space, literally a WMV-HD film will only take 7GB out of the 54GB on a Blu-Ray Disc, and that's full bitrate, full res, with 96hz/24Bit 5.1 sound...

    WMVHD
     
  2. probedb

    probedb
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    So maybe we should just stick to CDs because we have lossless compression now so we can fit more on a CD. No need for formats that can hold more. Actually we have MP3 so that's 13 CDs on one disc, no need for anything bigger because most people can't tell the difference?

    Hi-def games are *not* the same as films, films have to store content for x hours @ that res @ x fps, hi-res games are generated the same way PC games are! It's not video, all the disc needs store is textures and other such stuff.

    As for formats, I thought H.264 is similar to MPEG4 which is pretty much what WMV-HD is based on? You can offer far higher bitrates on bigger discs with more audio tracks etc etc. Also 1440x1080 is not full res HD, that would be 1920x1080. You shouldn't use US broadcast MPEG2 as examples, as while they can look very nice, the bitrate is at the broadcasters descretion. I think what I'm saying is that for HD to take off on disc you have to give the customer that much more incentive to buy, I don't want to buy a movie that, while using a better compression technique, has been made to cram into the space of a normal dvd. People are obsessed with compressing everything as much as possible, while this is fine with lossless, when you're using lossy compression then you want as higher bit-rate as possible that's indistinguishable from the original.

    I have 2 WMV-HD DVDs and while they're good, they're not the last word in what can be done with hi-def.

    But that's just my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own :)
     
  3. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    It's not just video you need to consider - Dolby Digital and DTS lossless soundtracks can take upto 5GB of space (each) on a disc. Add to that high bitrate video and 10GBs of extras and your looking at around the capacity of a dual layer HD DVD.
     
  4. Quickbeam

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    Indeed - which is why some people think that dual layer HD-DVD doesn't have enough capacity. I think it would be a struggle to fit a 1080p version of LOTR: ROTK EE with two lossless soundtracks on a dual layer HD-DVD without lowering the bit rate, or splitting it onto two discs.
     
  5. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Toshiba has now proposed a 3 layer 45GB HD DVD.

    Steve
     
  6. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    If you put the extras on a seperate disc then there would be more than enough space for a full bitrate LOTR with both lossless DTS and DD soundtracks and you'd still end up a couple of GBs short of the dual layer limit. And as Dutch points out - there is now a 3 layer version if you really want the extras on the same disc.
     
  7. MartinImber

    MartinImber
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    But this would fit on a 2 layer BR disc!

    This is the main argument for BR - the capacity!
     
  8. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    The main argument for BluRay from my perspective is that it's an inherently recordable format. I don't want to have to wait 5 years for a recordable version of a hi-capacity disc player in the same way as we had to wait for recordable DVD.
     
  9. Evil Engineer

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    But what will you record ?

    All the good hi-def stuff will be nobbled by HDCP !

    Besides, isn't Sony's plan to release playback only decks first and then follow on with recorders to keep the launch prices down to a reasonable level ?

    If there is going to be a format war the initial stage will be a land grab. Players need to be as cheap as possible in order to shift more units than the other bloke.

    Mind you, Sony has always got it's Playstation shaped trojan horse to help out with the numbers game. Toshiba definitely missed a trick not getting HD-DVD into Xbox360.
     
  10. probedb

    probedb
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    That's an excellent point...how to sneakily get lots of players on the market :)
     
  11. Eddy Boy

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    You say your file is at 1080p but how many colours is that? 256? Look at HDMI it can transfer 5.5GB/sec of data, 2.5-3 is used for picture alone for HD, thats from a standard DVD once its gone though a scaler to 720p.

    As for recordable media that in itself is complicated. Your music CD that you buy is not made with a laser. It would take to long and would be inaccurate. They are pressed.

    Hence why you get so many problems with burining discs. Not only do you lose information in the reading, but you also get it again when its burnt back out. Plus if the laser dosen't track the groove 100% you get more information lost.
     
  12. Rasczak

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    But ultimately if you fit the LOTR: EE (the longest film that you're likely to get) on either type of disc is capacity that significant?
     
  13. MartinImber

    MartinImber
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    Knowing how DVD is coming with more discs and more extras I think more capacity will be an important bit
     

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