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Why so many closed threads, please?

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sean5302

Banned
Many of us like to buy, install and appreciate the AV kit we buy.

We buy LCD tvs, plasma panels, AV receivers etc. On all the other threads, people's comments are valued.

Where did you buy it?
What did you pay?
Would you buy again?

As soon as people really say what they think about DAB radio, there is abuse and the mod closes the thread.

Why, please?
 

neilmcl

Prominent Member
I thought the moderators who were responsible for closing the threads gave their reasons quite adequately.
 

Cable Monkey

Prominent Member
Sean, if you want your views valued then you need to alter your posting style to be less confrontational and also to refrain from comments such as:
Sean5302 said:
Fine if you like Bush, Goodmans, Pure and similar excreta.
If you can honestly hold your hand on your heart and say that you think a comment like that is reasonable then perhaps a crash course on tact and diplomacy is required. Sadly your posting where you laid out your experiences with DAB were relevant and had that been your only posting that thread would still be open now. However your experience was just that. Your experience. Many others have not been so unlucky and have good reception and acceptable results. No one is claiming DAB is the holy grail of sound quality and we accept your and others views about the mistakes made in plotting the course of DAB. However my view is that you need to stay within the confines of the thread starters enquiry. If they ask about coverage then give an appropriate answer, if about quality then I am sure you and others will talk about the relative merits of MP2 vs AAC. All I am asking is that your comments don't extend to comments like the one quoted above or personal abuse.
Ultimately I stand by my moderating decisions. If you still have a problem then contact Stuart Wright by pm and ask him to adjudicate.
 

sean5302

Banned
The question I'm asking is why this part of the Forum has such a difference from the others.

You can look up and down the Forum categories and you won't find anywhere else apart from DAB digital radio with so many closed threads.

Almost always, the reason is that people have tried to give their honest opinion.
 

Cable Monkey

Prominent Member
The answer remains the same. You know who to contact if you feel I am in the wrong. Incidentally I choose to close threads and give an explanation why for all to see. I could simply make the thread vanish.
 

sean5302

Banned
Cable Monkey, I don't wish to fall out with you.
I'm grateful for your help and advice.
It may very well be that threads are removed altogether from other areas of the Forum.
I'm a bit concerned about DAB being the only AV product I've not been satisfied with.
I wanted to know what others thought, and I can read both the lines and between them now.

All I will say is that I'm a group manager with a large car maker.

We could build you a Golf with air conditioning, all round electric windows, automatic gearbox, 27 airbags, turbo-diesel 60mpg economy.....

But, if it would only run at 3mph, in the UK, most folks would say it wasn't much of a car.

Do you agree?
 

neilmcl

Prominent Member
You've had your answer and yet you still persist and why are you now trying to steer this thread into another pro/anti DAB debate. Are you bored today or something :rolleyes:

The reason maybe that so many threads here get closed is perhaps because there a number of members posting here that, whilst are perfectly entitled to express their opinion and we're grateful for it, will not leave it at that but try to wind everyone else up into pointless argument.
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
I must say, having been prompted by this thread to have a look at the DAB forum and in particular the closed threads, it is obvious that in each case, a raft of wholly unhelpful comments basically saying DAB is crap (or similar) eventually seem to ruin any attempt by anybody to choose their hardware. And then an argument, not about hardware, but about the (in)adequacies of the platform emerges, once again.

It's just as well I'm not responsible for Moderating that part of the forum. Cable Monkey has been much more patient than I would have been.
 

sean5302

Banned
Well, in that case, I humbly apologise for any offence that my posts may have caused.
DAB is not right for me, but others may consider the features absolutely superb.
 
neilmcl said:
The reason maybe that so many threads here get closed is perhaps because there a number of members posting here that, whilst are perfectly entitled to express their opinion and we're grateful for it, will not leave it at that but try to wind everyone else up into pointless argument.

That applies to people on both sides of the argument, whereas again I get the strong feeling that you're trying to accuse those of us that don't like DAB of being the perpetrators.

And as a general comment about the issue of threads being closed: I think it's counter-productive to close all the threads where the pro/anti discussion is taking place, because the discussion will pretty much inevitably end up on other threads.

One example was this:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3225446#post3225446

If you only look at it from a thread title point of view, it's obviously off topic, but the fact was the discussion had already got going, so I don't think there was any point terminating it in mid-flow - nedmundo, which was the person I was discussing the issue with, said the exact same thing in a different thread straight afterwards, because he felt we were approaching some common ground on the issue.
 

sean5302

Banned
I have had great benefits from this Forum.
I spend tens of thousands of pounds each year on AV equipment.
I am a very senior manager with a major EU manufacturer.
All my local AV retailers treat me with respect. I have no axe to grind.

All I want from the Forum is the truth. If I buy something, will it be OK?

Every other part, apart from this section, has been fantastic.

Sorry for reporting my findings. I can't really afford to get banned or whatever, but the advice in this section is very peculiar.

Thanks again.
 

Cable Monkey

Prominent Member
Gentlemen, there is only so many times the same question can be posed and answered before it drags the forum down into a repetetive mire of pro and con arguments. It is true this forum is for providing information to those that require it, but it is also for the enjoyment of all who read it. As moderator I see my position as having to make a judgement call about where a thread is going sometimes. If it is being pulled of topic my decision is made easier. The answer is stay on topic, remain respectful of each other and other companies and organisations and remain within the rules of the forums. Where I see the above is not the case I will close the thread. I have no axe to grind with anyone and you must understand the reqirement that I stay neutral if possible.

In time there will be a sticky created with the pro and con arguments presented. My hope is that it will reduce that particular type of intervention in threads. Because I don't have as much technical knowledge as others I may be coming to them for assitance or refering to their sources of information. I hope it is sufficient to keep this forum a productive source of balanced information.
 
Cable Monkey said:
Gentlemen, there is only so many times the same question can be posed and answered before it drags the forum down into a repetetive mire of pro and con arguments.

But DAB is supposed to replace FM, so the fact that the audio quality on DAB is lower than on FM is inevitably a highly contentious issue that is relevant to anybody that hopes that DAB will provide better audio quality than on FM -- which accounts for the vast majority of people.

This is a discussion forum on the subject of DAB digital radio, so I don't see how you can disallow discussion of this important issue.

It is true this forum is for providing information to those that require it, but it is also for the enjoyment of all who read it. As moderator I see my position as having to make a judgement call about where a thread is going sometimes. If it is being pulled of topic my decision is made easier.

There is a simple solution though: have a thread dedicated to the pro/con argument. That would stop, or at the very least limit, the spread of the discussion onto threads where it's off-topic. As I said yesterday, closing down all the threads just because there's a heated discussion going on doesn't provide a lasting solution - people feel passionately about this on both sides of the argument, so at least allow them to discuss it.

The answer is stay on topic, remain respectful of each other and other companies and organisations and remain within the rules of the forums. Where I see the above is not the case I will close the thread. I have no axe to grind with anyone and you must understand the reqirement that I stay neutral if possible.

With all due respect, you've already nailed your colours to the mast: you've said that you like DAB, and you basically accused me of being "full of hot air", so I can't see how you can remain neutral on this discussion.

You've also entered into the pro/con discussion yourself when you tried to suggest that the DAB industry haven't been banned from using the term CD-quality.

I think as you're the moderator you should remain neutral on the pro/con argument, because you're basically like a referee of a football match, but you keep criticising everybody that doesn't like DAB!!! Come on, that is hardly a neutral stance...

In time there will be a sticky created with the pro and con arguments presented. My hope is that it will reduce that particular type of intervention in threads. Because I don't have as much technical knowledge as others I may be coming to them for assitance or refering to their sources of information. I hope it is sufficient to keep this forum a productive source of balanced information.

I'll start a new thread to discuss what should be contained in the sticky.
 

Cable Monkey

Prominent Member
With all due respect, you've already nailed your colours to the mast: you've said that you like DAB, and you basically accused me of being "full of hot air", so I can't see how you can remain neutral on this discussion.

You've also entered into the pro/con discussion yourself when you tried to suggest that the DAB industry haven't been banned from using the term CD-quality.

I think as you're the moderator you should remain neutral on the pro/con argument, because you're basically like a referee of a football match, but you keep criticising everybody that doesn't like DAB!!! Come on, that is hardly a neutral stance...

The criticism is of the way you demonstrate your dislike. Quotes like "FM wipes the floor with DAB" is hardly objective and is precisely the sort of comments that won't make it onto any sticky.
 
Cable Monkey said:
The criticism is of the way you demonstrate your dislike. Quotes like "FM wipes the floor with DAB" is hardly objective and is precisely the sort of comments that won't make it onto any sticky.

So in other words your proposed sticky will be a thread to advertise all that's good about DAB and suppress any negative information?

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

BTW, if the sticky thread is as I've just described it, that will promote more pro-anti discussions on threads, because people such as myself will be unhappy with the contents of the sticky thread.

FM does wipe the floor with DAB so long as the person has reasonable FM reception - but people may have poor DAB reception as well, thus reception quality is a totally independent issue, and on audio quality alone (i.e. assuming good reception quality) FM definitely does wipe the floor with DAB, so keeping that out of the sticky thread is suppressing information. Period.
 

Cable Monkey

Prominent Member
I suspect you wouldn't be happy with anything you didn't write from start to finish. However it is not your decision to make. ;)
 
Cable Monkey said:
I suspect you wouldn't be happy with anything you didn't write from start to finish. However it is not your decision to make. ;)

Here's how I suspect it will go:

DAB Digital Radio Sticky

DAB is wonderful. Anybody that says anything negative about it is wrong and probably mad.
DAB has been proven to improve your pulling power with the opposite sex by 394%.

Drawbacks of DAB:
None, DAB is wonderful in every way.

Sound Quality:

DAB has wonderful digital quality sound that everybody thinks is CD-quality.

Comparison to FM:

There is no comparison, DAB is wonderful, FM is terrible. Anybody that suggests different needs their head testing.

When will FM be switched off:

At the same time as analogue TV is switched off, everybody knows that.

What bit rate levels are used on DAB:

DAB uses very high bit rates to ensure very high audio quality.

Audio Codec:

DAB uses the advanced MP2 audio codec to ensure very high audio quality reproduction and lots of radio stations.

Technology:

DAB uses advanced error correction to ensure that reception quality is perfect in every location around the UK.

Power consumption:

DAB consumes less power than FM and portable radios can run for 1 year on a set of batteries.

Future of DAB:

The bit rates, and hence the audio quality on DAB are likely to increase in future - those scare mongers that say that the bit rates will be reduced to 112 kbps are the idiots that like FM, so they must be ignored under all circumstances.

Range of stations:

DAB provides a superb range of stations with no 2 stations overlapping in terms of genre - Ofcom wouldn't allow that to happen, because Ofcom always has the best interests of the listeners at heart and is very strict when regulating the commercial radio groups.

Comparison with other digital radio system:

DAB is far better than all other exiting digital radio systems because all the others smell of poo.

Mobile TV on DAB:

Very high picture quality mobile TV will be available to Virgin Mobile customers later this year, the 64 kbps bit rate used for both audio and video in no way harms the superb quality of the broadcast TV channels, and people have been known to faint at the sight of such wonderous images on their mobile phones.
 
The scary thing is that I reckon a lot of people wouldn't even realise that I'm being extremely sarcastic - such is the ridiculous situation with the 1980s DAB system that we're using.
 

stevedster

Established Member
I think THIS thread is becoming silly now!

I have both DAB and FM radio's. Yes the sound quality of DAB does not match up to a good fm signal. However for many functions such as my radio alarm and my radio in the kitchen DAB is the better choice due to put simply ease of use due to it being digital technology, plus the scrolling text is good for footie scores etc. However I dont have DAB in my hi-fi setup at the moment, maybe this would show up the limited sound quality more, however I would be prepared to inlude it in the future while retaining my fm tuner.
 

Cable Monkey

Prominent Member
This has pretty much been put to bed now. Shall I close it? ;)
 

Cable Monkey

Prominent Member
Done!
 
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