Why shouldn't I buy a Sony BDS300 now?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by ash71, Sep 4, 2007.

  1. ash71

    ash71
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    Hi all

    I'm off to San Diego on Friday and MAY cave in and buy a cheap Blu Ray player to hang out with my HD DVD player.

    As the whole java 1.1 profile thing doesnt look like it will be sorted by the end of next month I cant see the reason for holding back esp when there is a good few BR exclusive films I want (which would pain me to buy on DVD at this stage)

    I dont yet have a HDMI amp and wont be upgrading my current unit for a while so will be either using the regular digital output or unplugging the multi channel output from my current Pioneer DVD player and using that with the BR player - BUT then I'll loose the DVD-A/SACD playback that I enjoy:( will the sound be better than DVD throug the reg Dig out?

    So my question is as per the title - Why shoundn't I buy the S300?

    I thought this machine was to be replaced by the s500 but that now seems to be pitched further up the market, is there another entry level machine waiting in the wings?

    Have Sony US released any firmware upgrades for this player? say to deal with its slow start up on the Pirates BR discs? From what I've casually glaced through this doesn't seem to be a well supported player by Sony. (oh do all the current BR player struggle with the Pirates BR or just the sony? plus will this start up lag be more of an issue as more films are released that use Java 1.1)

    Does anyone rate the newer samsung 1200 BR player? I really don't want to spend too much more than 500 usd as i expect by this time next year both my HD DVD and whichever BR player I get will find a home in my bedroom or a mates place.

    Or should I spend the money on something new for my camera instead???

    What are your suggestions?

    A
     
  2. ash71

    ash71
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    cool 101 views and no one saying DONT DO IT! guess thats a good sign huh?
     
  3. Noggin1980

    Noggin1980
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    Not really,

    Personally I'd wait for a 1.1 player, never know we may see one annouced today even (Cedia starts today I think). If you arn't willing to wait then buy a PS3, they have said it will probably be updateable to 1.1/2.0 and it's a powerful machine so handles Java much more quickly than some of the standalones that are embarassingly slow, minutes for some things.

    Even if you arn't keen on useing a games console I'd go this route because the PS3 will hold it's value much better than a 1.0 standalone will, (good luck selling that once 1.1 is availible) then you can sell the PS3 and get a standalone once everything is ironed out. Even with a likely PS3 price drop at christmas I think you could break even buying a US PS3, keeping it for 6 months and then selling it here. I think that is your lowest risk option, remember to keep all the boxes and manuals if you plan to do this.

    Spending the money on your camera and then buying in 6 months or so is a good option too, by then we may have a great dual format player that does everything we want availible.
     
  4. directstep

    directstep
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    Unless you're a technical wiz or have specific demands I would not worry to much about 1.0, 1.1 etc etc.
    The vast majority of people want a player to watch blu-ray movies and enjoy the experience.
    You will not be disappointed with a S300 which gives a fantastic movie performance.
     
  5. Noggin1980

    Noggin1980
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    What does being a technical wiz have to do with wanting the features on the disk to work? to be able to use the extras, to have a fast player that doesn't leave you sitting there for minutes waiting on certain titles?

    You talk about the experience but haveing issues, long wait times etc damages that experience, the most important thing is the movie of course it is but why waste $500 on a player that will lose almost all of it's value in a few months and that you will want to upgrade very quickly?

    It's his money of course as long as he knows that financially it's not very wise and goes in with his eyes open then great by all means buy one, I'm sure you will enjoy the movies.

    If anything it's not the 'technical wiz's' that are going to get burned by this unfinished profile nonsence it's the general public. The BDA continue to advertise great interactivity at the same time as annouceing new players that don't support it and don't make it at all easy to find this out.
     
  6. directstep

    directstep
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    Sorry I understand your comments but personally I disagree. Talking about re-selling, 2nd hand value and upgrading etc is a bit pointless for most people I believe. The majority probably want a blu-ray player to start watching blu-ray movies now and would intend keeping it for a few years. This applies to all kinds of electronics, IT etc - it's an endless technical advance. If you waited for these specifications there will then undoubtedly be some other feature that you could wait for......
    If you specifically want to use extras & features included on discs - yes it might well be worth waiting but in my experience many people simply want to watch & enjoy the movies...... nothing more.
    The current S300 is highly impressive in picture & sound quality, easy to use and performs almost faultlessly. The longest I have waited for a disc to load (in my S300) is 35 seconds...... most will load in 20 seconds & are ready to watch.
    Blu-Ray players losing their value will quickly become irrelevant over the next year or so - as prices drop & drop just the same as happened with DVD players.
    I would highly recommend the S300 to enjoy blu-ray movies now & well into the future - but as I said if you want use of the extras etc then wait. But this does not detract from this player's exceptional performance.
     
  7. Noggin1980

    Noggin1980
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    I know most people want to buy a player and keep it for a few years which is why I wouldn't buy one that doesn't have the ability to handle profile 1.1/2.0 disks properly. If you buy now you may well be quickly be wanting a player that does what the original should have and handle the features that are so prominatly advertised at the conferances, wait 6 months and you can enjoy the purchase without feeling the need to upgrade.

    The reason I mentioned reselling cost is because if he doesn't want to be patient he can pick up a PS3 in America, buy his disks, enjoy them then sell the PS3 and buy a standalone once this bumpy period is over with little or no financial loss (assuming he doesn't declare it at customs on the way home) or if it turns out the PS3 is 1.1/2.0 upgradeable then he can stay with that, assuming he doesn't mind useing a games console as a player.

    We Just don't know what issues (if any) profile 1 players are going to have when profile 1.1+ movies become the norm next year, we don't know weather the experience of loading the menus and movie will be acceptable or not. The fact that Pirates of the Carib takes minutes to load on some players is a cause for serious concern if buying a player now and this is before we start to see the more advanced stuff coming soon.

    Buying a profile 1.0 player just a few weeks before companys are no longer allowed to release profile 1.0 players just doesn't seem sensible to me.

    I'm not telling him not to buy it, it's his money and as you say he will enjoy the movies on it, but he asked for reasons not to buy one now and the reasons are relativly significant. He should certainly wait out this week to decide as Cedia may well bring annoucements that will sway him one way or another.
     
  8. nehalem

    nehalem
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    Totally agree. I really don't think majority of people would be worried by some extra 'nice to haves' as at a basic level they are buying a BD player to watch movies.
     
  9. Avi

    Avi
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    The reason many people are waiting for the final standard profile (aka 1.1) is also about player performance in terms of "just watching the movie". These players should have increased processing capacity to support the additional features and standard BD-J. This should resolve the performance issues experienced with current standalone players.

    Most (all ?) current standalones have performance issues i.e slow load times with BD-J discs. In extreme cases it can take longer than 3 minutes "just to load the disc" with around 2 mins being the average. Then you may have further issues if you want to use the extras. The issue is the lack of processing power in the players and my concern would be what happens when BD-J titles become the norm in the not too distant future ?

    AVI
     
  10. Jeff

    Jeff
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    It's not just about the extras, i's also about the ability to simply watch the film without having to wait 5 minutes or so.
     
  11. directstep

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    It's clearly a matter of personal choice & preferences. As I've already said if you want purely a blu-ray movie watching experience there is no good reason
    to delay. Players will be evolving for years to come yet.

    The S300 I can highly recommend from experience of actually having one and using it. It's mindblowing quality period.

    Too many people bemoan equipment without having had any experience of
    it themselves.

    Performance wise - it is hard for me to imagine anything better for
    watching movies...... (I like other said this about DVD mind! but that's progress and people have to decide what they really want from a player and
    when they want to get in).

    Improvements are always ongoing with any equipment. I remember back
    in 1999 when I bought (a then good quality) Dvd Player (Sony S725) (price then £500!) and that lasted perfectly until I just recently replaced it with an S300 & an Oppo.

    That S725 was not particularly quick loading dvds..... but a few seconds here & there never ruined my enjoyment! It gave us time to sit back down.... now we have the S300 it's just the same and because of it's outstanding performance it's of no concern waiting 20-30 seconds or so. Nobody has said "Oh that's taking a long time to load",,,,,

    For us watching movies is instead of going to the cinema - simple - and there
    are no extras on offer at your local Showcase either.

    Each person should make up their own mind what exactly they want the player for - if you want to watch movies buy now and start enjoying now.
     
  12. directstep

    directstep
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    Saying things like this are very misleading as you should well know......

    5 minutes ? Where have you experienced a delay of 5 mins on a S300 ?

    I have an S300 and whilst I have already conceded discs do not load almost instantly - the vast majority except for the very odd few like "Pirates" don't take very long and have never caused irritation or anything.

    To start talking "minutes" is ridiculous !
     
  13. Noggin1980

    Noggin1980
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    You don't have experience of it though, no one has experience of useing disks designed for 1.1 and 2.0 players yet. We can look at the experience of people playing Pirates and haveing to wait minutes and say that it's very possible that as this sort of interactivity and flashy menus becomes the norm next year that people with early players may end up waiting minutes on many titles. They may not too, things might turn out just fine for the early 1.0 adopters but there is very significant doubt there and with pirates evidence to support that doubt.

    Next month companies will no longer be able to release new players if they arn't 1.1+. If there is no issue then why have this rule?

    A few seconds here and there isn't an issue I agree, but minutes certainly is. Do you have Pirates : COBP ? how long does it take from pressing the power button to starting the actual movie? How are the menus to navigate are they fast and smoth? or slow and jerky?
     
  14. Avi

    Avi
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    Pirates is an example of a BD-J disc and there are others.

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=589133

    At the recent IFA BD press conf the BD studios heavily plugged this type of interactivity and more as a key features of future Blu-ray titles. What happens when the "Pirates" type titles become the norm. That's the concern.

    AVI
     
  15. Jeff

    Jeff
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  16. Avi

    Avi
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    It would almost be funny except we're being asked to pay a premium for this. :( Was the issue resolved with further firmware or is it the same today ?

    For ref the PS3 has no such problems with that disc although it does take just under twice as long (43 seconds) to load compared to non BD-J discs. Given the processing capacity of the PS3 I wonder what this means for standalone players in terms of standard BD-J performance?

    AVI
     
  17. directstep

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    Yes we have the Pirates trilogy. COBP does vary each time loading but the most it has ever taken was about 1 min 50 seconds. It has loaded in sub 1 minute though. All others always load power to start about 25-45 seconds being conservative and in my book that's perfectly alright for normal use.
    On the S300 going through menus etc have been all ok. I had 1 "freeze" once when repeatedly flicking "forward" but no other issues and everything works as well & cleanly as playing DVDs on our Oppo.

    It's also a fact that in the past their have been issues with certain rogue dvds having problems & being slow to load on many DVD players as well.

    I do personally only know one other person owning an S300 and they haven't encountered any problems either that affect their enjoyment.

    It is laughable some people quoting many minutes load times & various problems who have not even got this player themselves and are just relating "what they have heard" and "what they have read".....

    I'm very happy (as I expect many others are) enjoying my S300 every week while some people enjoy debating future developments. I have no problem with that at all - but I know what I'd rather be doing + once some of these people have eventually got the "player that satisfies" them - there'll be other people debating & anticipating the next technical advances.....that's life.

    If there is one thing I don't like about the S300 it's the size! It's very deep ie front to back and only just about fitted into my rack.

    For quite a good review which deals & agrees both sides of the debate on this thread -

    http://www.guidetohometheater.com/hddiscplayers/707sonys300/
     
  18. Avi

    Avi
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    As you say something for both sides of the debate although I think the player as been updated to decode Dolby TrueHD codec. :)

    "Highs
    Superb playback of Blu-ray Discs
    Good upconversion of standard definition DVDs from the HDMI output
    Affordably priced

    Lows
    Sluggish disc loading, though competitive with most current Blu-ray players
    Will not decode Dolby TrueHD
    Will not properly play the advanced extra features and games on some discs
    Occasional freeze-ups"

    Although on the lows it doesn't mention that it will not support the Blu-ray final standard profile (aka 1.1) that will be mandatory for all players released from Nov 07. It will also not allow HD audio bitstream to enable an amp to decode the HD codecs not supported internally. :(

    AVI
     
  19. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Perhaps Directsep you can time the POTC discs etc and put them on the BD J load time thread linked to here?
     

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