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Why Rear Projection over Plasma/LCD?

Discussion in 'TVs' started by southpaw, Oct 8, 2005.

  1. southpaw

    southpaw
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    Hi

    I'm looking for a new tv. Ideally around a grand. I was gonna get a 32" LCD then I saw it alongside a 42" Plasma and decided I wanted a cinema experience (ie Large screen) when I watched it.

    I guess this is the place to ask but why should I look at Rear Projection TVs over Plasma and LCD?

    My needs are a great picture quality when I watch normal tv, sky tv and DVDs. Especially need a good picture when watching Football as thats one of the main things I watch!

    All advice and recommendations appreciated. links and pics would also be helpful.

    Oh and what is DLP rainbow??
     
  2. jessmith

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    I like you am setting out on the rear pro trail.

    Think that the basic advantage is that you do get a a very large picture of high quality for significantly less money.
    Rear pro may also be more economical in long run than particularly plasma, as plasma has a limited shelf life and there is limited repairs that can be done.

    New DLP technology has increased brightness of TVs and also allowed wider viewing angles.

    Main drawback of rear pro is that they will never hang on wall. However neither does a sky box or AV amp.

    DLP rainbow is an effect that can occur on fast moving images fro what I've seen on the better TVs it's something you have to watch for to see at all.

    You don't give a price range, but the best offers appear to be from comet, currys and dixons at present for the sagem 45 and samsung SP 50, all the reviews here seem to point towards these 2, if you want to go large sagem do a 56", try pricerunner for deal on this.

    Best of luck
     
  3. Grobnic

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    I am about to take the plunge with DLP, I’m no expert but here are the things I’ve discovered in my research.

    Benefits :smashin:

    Cheapest price for a large screen
    No screen burn issues, as with plasma (important if you are a gamer)
    No dead pixels, another Plasma issue
    LCD screens can’t do the size, yet anyway
    You can replace the bulb in a DLP (plasmas can dim over time, and there is nothing you can do)

    Concerns :thumbsdow

    Rainbows, more below
    It’s a very new technology
    • Prone to problems (though I think those with no issues keep quiet on the forum, so it feels worse than it is).
    • Every new model is better than the last, so when to take the plunge?
    • Current models have a few teething problems and design errors (single HD input for example)
    Bulbs are expensive, but I expect them to get cheaper as DLP becomes more popluar

    Rainbow effect :devil:

    This is a ‘feature’ of the technology. DLP’s produce a black & white image from the mirrors on the chip, which is then passed through a spinning colour wheel to produce the picture. Therefore at any given time only a single colour is on screen and our brains merger the colours to make up the moving image (The same effect as 24 single frames a second making up a movie). A few people can see beyond this a see the separate colours, you need to check you are not one of the few before you buy.
    I have managed to see rainbows by being close to the screen and looking away from the screen very quickly, but I don’t think I will have problem during normal viewing.

    On balance I think DLP is the best option for screens over 42”. I intend to buy the Sagem HD45H TG4 model which is due out any day now, but I want to see it first (just to check the rainbow thing).
     
  4. Snap

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    IMHO:

    the best technology for football is Philips's Pixel Plus 2. Such a fluid motion i have never seen before. only on PC with some codecs/descalers e.t.c
    I compared Philips Plasmas and LCD's showing football via RF in the shop with another plasmas (Pioneer, Panasonic) and they were nowhere near to philips in terms of smoothness of motion. it's like looking out of the window. I beleive smothness is the main point for football. DLP technology introduces some image artefacts/dottines while panning, which is 99% time on football, this all said about standard definition TV via RF and poor digital channels with high compression. I have never whatched football on good digital channels and HDTV. HDTV is 50 or 60Hz already so it should be OK on DLP rearpro. but demo this technology first with football before going for it.
     
  5. jessmith

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    The picture from Phillips pixel plus is very good, but to my mind it does have a somewhat "digital" effect, occasionally making natural scenes look a bit like something from the matrix, clear, impressive but somehow not real.

    Just a word of warning on the Phillips, we had the top line pixel plus, 32 inch, we suffered from tube failure after 2 years of normal usage. Phillips were most unhelpful and looking at the earlier forums many other people suffered from this too. A new tube is likely to set you back £400 plus some labour (so just not worth doing), there was also an issue over tube availability too.

    Just another point on rear pro, warranties are considerably cheaper than plasma and LCD.
     
  6. southpaw

    southpaw
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    Thanks guys.

    If you could purchase anything what would it be Plasma, LCD or DLP? (Lets assume that they all cost the same and all sizes available )
     
  7. kmhtkmhtkmht

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    Cause it's better.

    DLPs R U L E!

    I could pick ANY of the TVs and I picked the Sagem 56B.
     
  8. JayList

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    I was in the same dilema. I did loads of research and pound for pound , you get a better picture and larger screen than plasma. How could you go wrong!!

    I am going to order my RD65 this week (don't tell the wife). :thumbsup:
     
  9. the_pauley

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    I think you'll find that's a problem confined to the current Toshiba models and not any other current makes.

    Have had a Samsung SP46 DLP for two months and picture is 100% artefact free. Football looks fine on this set - no panning problems whatsoever.
     
  10. Son of Shaft

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    Price per inch wise DLP is the best choice sofar when looking at big screen HDTV's. Don't know what HiDef LCD rear pro cost though.

    DLP can have dead pixels. My parents' set had one half stuck pixel near the center of the screen. Called the dealer and had the board replaced and now have one dead pixel at the top. At normal viewing distance the stuck/dead pixel wasn't visible. Before buying ask what the pixel policy is. Manual of my parents' set said max of 4 dead/stuck pixels before replacement, but when calling for the single half stuck one they didn't make a fuss so al went well.
    LCD can do the size but they would be more expensive than plasma so they wouldn't sell well. I also think that at those sizes they even consume more power than plasma. Wich is also a plus for DLP. Lower power consumption. Think most DLP sets are below 200W.
    DLP isn't really a new technology. Have had a DLP front pro 7 or 8 years ago. Those days rainbow effect was much more visible.
    Think most problems are with the digital processing/scaling of picture and HDMI incompatibilities. And occasionally a bad colourwheel motor.
    The last 3 to 4 years DLP front pro's have become pretty popular but I haven't seen a decrease in bulb prices. But shopping around can help a lot. If you're lucky you can save upto 50%.
     
  11. logiclee

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    Sony's new 50" model is being sold at £1399 complete with stand and 3 year warranty at Sony Centre stores. Can be had for under £1200 on line.

    Cheers
    Lee
     
  12. southpaw

    southpaw
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    Hi Logiclee

    Do you have a link for the Sony and does anyone else have one?
     
  13. logiclee

    logiclee
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    Sony Web Site

    Empire Direct

    Also have a read Through This Thread

    They are quite new so very few people will have them.

    Cheers
    Lee
     
  14. slackbladder

    slackbladder
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    Am I blind or does the Tech info on the Sony site not mention HDMI whereas the Empire Direct info says it does? :confused:
    Must say it looks good...hmm..if I have to return my Samsung SP46 (I hope not :eek:) but if...I might consider this Sony!..
     
  15. logiclee

    logiclee
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    It's "HD Ready" so has Analogue Component input as well as HDMI.

    Cheers
    Lee
     
  16. rEVILospud

    rEVILospud
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    I have been looking for a HDTV for a while now and thought I had decided on an LCD, the Philips 37PF9830 had taken my fancy and had all the specs and more that I was looking for.
    But recently confusion has set in. I was WOWed by the appearance of the Samsung SP50L7HX DLP Rear Projection TV I saw in a shop the other day, and so I looked further into the specs and saw it just about met my requirements, plus it is HUGE (in comparison)!

    Unfortunately I haven't got to see these sets in action with a decent source and would just like some advice really :)

    So do I go for a 37" LCD with Pixel Plus 2 HD, Ambilight 2, 1920x1020 resolution, DVI, HDMI, Component etc. (approx £2,500)
    or;
    Do I get a 50" DLP Rear Projection, 1280x720 resolution, No DVI but D-Sub/VGA, HDMI, Component etc. (approx £1900)

    I would primarily use it for watching DVDs and for use with Xbox/Xbox 360 (but not much) and may throw an aerial into it too for freeview (but again not a regular occurence). It would also be great to connect my PC running MCE 2005 into it and play games such as Battlefield 2, Half-Life 2 etc.( High resolution would be great for these games)

    Any thoughts and possible problems I would face with these sets with respect to my type of use would be very much appreciated.

    Other recommendations are also welcome, but try not to confuse me too much please ;)
     
  17. matrixsc

    matrixsc
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    Can't find any info on this at all yet Sagem HD45H TG4 . Do you have any sites with prices on them please.

    I was looking myself at getting a plasma but seems everyone i've read about theres something wrong about them! .
    To be honest i was looking at the hitachi 7200 and it was next to a samsung one 1400pounds and i didn't see the difference at all.
    But then i did see a Sagem ( i wa sin comet) looked very nice and great picture. But i've been told that the ppicture sin't as good as plasma and they have bad rainbow effects and if your not sitting in front and center of these tv's it looks blurry and truth in this?

    Also whats the picture like on a standard sky feed. As from some of the plasma threads i've read the picture can be very poor is it the same case here?

    Lots of info here people very good thread :)
     
  18. Snap

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    ok. first you can connect DVI source to HDMI - no problems.
    What really funny is, the resolution of 37" LCD you are talking about.
    The pixel size is 0.43mm. it is accepted that normal human eyes don't see 1mm object from distance 3 meters. I could argue as i can't see it from 2.5 meters. So if you want really see ALL details of 1920x180 screen in 37" you have to sit at 1.1 meter from screen. especially for Games. (for DVD's it will be twice far as DVD's are 575 lines). When i play games (rarely) i have to sit at 2 meters in front of my 45" with 1280x720 (0.78 size of pixel). any farther and i loose details, any clother and i can see separate pixels.
    figure out!
    I think 1920x1080 is pointless for screens smaller than 50" from normal 10ft viewing distance.
     
  19. rEVILospud

    rEVILospud
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    Thanks for the quick reply Snap.

    I am leaning towards the Samsung as I don't think I will notice the resolution difference; it's just tempting when you see all the big numbers isn't it? :)
    I think practicality will win over and I will end up with the Samsung, hopefully very soon.
    Is there a noticable PQ difference between DVI and VGA(D-Sub), or DVI with VGA adapter? Just ask as I'm tempted to get HD Upscaling DVD Player with HDMI output, so the single HDMI input may be in use.
     
  20. rEVILospud

    rEVILospud
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    I have also noticed that the Samsung SP50L7HX does not output Progressive NTSC, according to What Hi-Fi!
    I thought this was necessary for it to be given HDTV Ready Status?!
    What problems if any would I face with this? :lease:
     
  21. Snap

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    On my 17" LCD there is no noticeable difference between VGA and DVI.
    I will connect my HD-D45 to VGA and see how it compares to DVI.

    NTSC has nothing to do with HD Ready. And AFAIK all DLP's except for Optoma RD65 accept NTSC without problems including mine.
     
  22. rEVILospud

    rEVILospud
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    Would be interested to hear how yours looks through VGA, thanks!
    I'm thinking the difference should be negligible.

    Are you sure ALL DLPs except Optoma RD65 accept NTSC?
    Just because What Hi-Fi mag says Samsung 50L7HX, Themescene RD50 and Toshiba 46WM48 don't support Progressive NTSC, where pretty much every other one listed does (including yours; p.s. like the pics! :thumbsup: )
    If it is true that it doesn't do Progressive NTSC, I suppose the only way it would affect me is if I used it with my PC, limiting the refresh rate I could use; or even with region1 DVDs (of which I own Zero at the moment!).

    I do hope you are right though, I just have explore everything before I take the plunge, thanks for all your help so far, I've found it extremely useful :smashin:
     
  23. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    I have the Samsung SP46 and it accepts progressive NTSC. Auditioned the SP50 with NTSC material too and all played beautifully. :smashin:

    It would appear that What Hi-Fi has made a typo. :)
     
  24. rEVILospud

    rEVILospud
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    Thanks for that Pauley, you have put my mind at rest!
    Now I've got no reason not to buy it :clap:
    Anyone had any experience with AV Wow
    Prices seem very good :rolleyes: Almost TOO good!
     
  25. cooleo_no1

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    Lots have people have bought from them and apparently they are alright. Especially with returns.

    Search for Av Wow or avwow and I'm sure you'll get loads of opinions.
     

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