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Why only a few hours of programming on BBC HD?

FlyingSquirrel

Standard Member
Ok, they may not have enough varied content to run 24/7 with HD, but anyone know why most of the day/night is just Preview mode?

Surely it would be better to repeat content during the day (content allowing pre-watershed of course), so at least something was showing - people might well like a programme repeat if they've missed an earlier/later showing.

Just seems to me at present that it's hard for the average person to justify £150 on an extra box for very limited HD programming, when most of the SD channels are available on Freeview.

I appreciate it'll be a boon for those who can't get Freeview, but lots of people will be asking what's the big deal with HD.

:confused:
 

Poissony

Established Member
The BBC HD schedule already has plenty of repeats in their few hours of broadcast as it is. I don't see the point in repeating more as it will have a detrimental effect, whereby less people will tune in as they anticipate a repeat being on.

Also, you'd be crazy to spend £150 just for BBC HD, a small amount of research would tell people that it's a limited broadcast. Anyway, summer is approaching and BBC HD will be broadcasting less preview and lots more sport during the day (Wimbledon, Olympics, Euro 2008) if that's your thing.
 

Starburst

Distinguished Member
I think you have to look at it as buying a whole system which is mainly going to be used for SD channels with the addition of HD, HD is never going to be the dominant format so SD is here to stay.
For those with Freeview then it is perhaps just a question of paying for the HD content but that's the decision most people make when upgrading to SKY HD, you can wait for years for HD to come to DTT (Freeview) or get cheaper but there comes a time when you say I want HD and I'll pay for it.


For those that are buying a single tuner HD box then the part time style of BBHH could become an issue unless they follow ITVHD's lead and be a simulcast offering. Either way you really are tied to watching HD when they want you to watch and they may be an issue, we are used to the VCR and now DVR, it's a bit of a let down if you pay for HD but only can record in SD:(

All that aside, HD is fantastic but you will get used to it and then SD will never ever satisfy again and this summer as Poissony says it's uber HD sports:)
 

Bachstrad

Prominent Member
I wondered how long it would take for someone to ask that question? I have raised this issue in other threads.

I still you could find people going the other way - i.e. Freesat to Sky, after seeing HD and wanting more.

CH4 HD only broadcasts on average one show a day in HD, so even when it arrives on Freesat it's unlikely to be any different. Also, the very fact that ITV HD is going to accessed via the 'Red Button' leads me to believe that there's not going to be an abundance of HD programming on there either, time will tell.

ATB

Max
 

nwhitfield

Prominent Member
The BBC will be damned by some whatever they do - they get people complaining "I pay my license fee, why can't I have BBC HD on Freeview", they get other people moaning "I can only get BBC HD by going to Sky" and they get people complaining "There are too many repeats" as well as "BBC HD isn't on for long enough."

One of the important things to remember is that they took a decision no to show upscaled content - BBC HD is only genuine HD stuff (compared to say Sky 1 HD or Channel 4 HD); I think that's the right decision, but at the moment, it means there is limited stuff to show, while the amount of HD content builds up.

The plan is for that to change however, and as outlined in the Service Description for the channel, they anticipate being up to 9 hours by the end of this year. It's well worth a read, since it gives a much better idea of the sort of things you can expect to see in the fairly near future.
 

atmoscinema

Established Member
SD will look poor on all these LCD's/Plasma's that they are selling now, as LCD's/Plasma's are not designed to show SD material. HD will look ok on them.

SD is for CRT's.

The BBC can't really afford to show all of it's output in HD at the moment, as most people can't afford to pay for it via Sky/Freesat and/or want a dish, until HD is available via DTT.
 

tomd84

Established Member
not always true think of all those terrible unknown make lcds that say HD ready i wonder how good they would look on HD.
I have one of them unbranded LCD that HD Ready and i have to say SD is a bit ropey, but HD on it amazing! i was supprised for the price of it how good it is!
 

Stephen Neal

Distinguished Member
Ok, they may not have enough varied content to run 24/7 with HD, but anyone know why most of the day/night is just Preview mode?

Surely it would be better to repeat content during the day (content allowing pre-watershed of course), so at least something was showing - people might well like a programme repeat if they've missed an earlier/later showing.

Repeating programmes costs the BBC money - every time they show a documentary, entertainment show, and in particular a drama or movie, they have to pay repeat fees to writers, musicians, actors, and in some cases producers and directors. In the case of sporting events, many sports have a narrow window during which the BBC can show highlights.

Thus the BBC only show content on BBC HD in the peak viewing hours - showing it overnight and during the day would cost money for a very small audience.

They DON'T have to pay these fees for promotional use of similar material - hence the HD preview channel is a much cheaper way of "barking" th channel and also works well as a mixed-genre demo for shops.

Just seems to me at present that it's hard for the average person to justify £150 on an extra box for very limited HD programming, when most of the SD channels are available on Freeview.

But if you have an HD Ready TV - freesat is the cheapest way of getting HD TV to put on it, and with ITV HD about to launch, if you want to watch BBC and ITV shows that are made in HD - in HD - it is the most cost effective way of doing it. £119 for an HD receiver is not a bad deal - particularly if you have a house with an inherited Sky dish.

Also freesat is also designed to provide an SD Freeview equivalent to those who can't, and may never be able to, receive Freeview. Even after analogue switch off there are going to be areas that can't get any Freeview, and a lot of areas that will only get the 2 SD PSB and 1 HD PSB muxes and not the 3 remaining commercial ones.
I appreciate it'll be a boon for those who can't get Freeview, but lots of people will be asking what's the big deal with HD.

If you have a 37" or bigger HD Ready display you will certainly be seeing the limitations of SD broadcasting... On a properly set-up HD Ready display HD broadcasts look massively better - particularly when compared to the sub-SD heavily compressed ITV SD channels on satellite - which are unwatchable on a large-ish screen.
 

nwhitfield

Prominent Member
I utterly disagree; it's not all about BBC1 - there's good material on the other channels, and not enough capacity (or money) to run them all as HD simulcasts. So what if you have to wait a couple of days to see, for example, Mad Men on BBC HD, rather than BBC 4?

I don't want to have to miss out on real, high quality original programming made in HD just so that a few people can watch things that I consider drivel, like EastEnders, upscaled.

I think it's absolutely the right solution to show real HD, so the programmes made in it across all BBC networks can be shown as the should be - rather than forgoing things like Mad Men, Lead Balloon, and other gems, in favour of upscaling non-HD material. Watchdog upscaled anyone?

That really would be a waste of BBC resources, throwing away HD showings of high quality material, so that those who are too lazy to look at an EPG don't have wonder when a particular BBC1 show might be in HD.
 

wellladida

Prominent Member
I have one of them unbranded LCD that HD Ready and i have to say SD is a bit ropey, but HD on it amazing! i was supprised for the price of it how good it is!

so do i!!!!!!!!!! the argos own make acoustic solutions(32" for 300 quid bargain!!!!) but i only bought it after consulting others and checking reviews the ones im on about are the cheapest of the cheapest teles like those terrible wollies teles for 70 quid that must look terrible no matter what.
 

YellowSphere

Prominent Member
BBC HD has got things knocked. When something has been made in HD, it's usually shown at the same time on BBC HD, so you don't have to wait longer to see it in HD. They've also shown a few movies (though without surround, disappointingly).

Back when the BBC introduced colour, they made sure they did it right, rather than having some sort of disappointing limbo of pseudo-colour for ages.
 

nwhitfield

Prominent Member
Colour is, of course, slightly different , in that it's a backwards compatible system. Even a 1960s B&W set could still tune into a PAL broadcast, if it was dual standard, and would show a B&W picture.

HD isn't quite the same, and can't serve SD receivers with the same transmission infrastructure. There has to be a new infrastructure of streams and transponders and so it has to be used in the most cost-efficient way, depending on your particular definition of efficient.
 

Bachstrad

Prominent Member
BBC HD has got things knocked. When something has been made in HD, it's usually shown at the same time on BBC HD, so you don't have to wait longer to see it in HD. They've also shown a few movies (though without surround, disappointingly).

Back when the BBC introduced colour, they made sure they did it right, rather than having some sort of disappointing limbo of pseudo-colour for ages.

That used to be the case during the 'Trial', but since BBC HD has been a 'Channel' you can't always count on simulcast HD Broadcasts. What happened to 'Rome' and 'Life in Cold Blood'?

ATB

Max
 

Bachstrad

Prominent Member
I don't know about Rome, but Life in Cold Blood was not, apparently, made in HD, according to this thread.

(later) The full text of two BBC comments about it, here.

AV Forums threads are always better than Digital Spy! ;)

Read this one, you will note that even the BBC can't make it's mind up whether Life in Cold Blood was made in HD!

Of course it was! All these nature programs are shot on film or in HD. Planet Earth was commissioned in HD and that was way before Life in Cold Blood! These programs are big business around the world for the BBC and there is no way this series wasn't made in HD!

ATB

Max
 
That used to be the case during the 'Trial', but since BBC HD has been a 'Channel' you can't always count on simulcast HD Broadcasts. What happened to 'Rome' and 'Life in Cold Blood'?

ATB

Max
How many programmes, apart from sport, have Sky made in HD?

In fact, how many programmes have Sky made?
 

nwhitfield

Prominent Member
I really don't think it's as simple as saying "Of course it was."

As noted on some of the various BBC blogs and in emails, not all film formats are considered acceptable, for example. And there are other considerations, such as whether or not a particular crew has HD experience, or a co-production company who may be supplying equipment, which mean that you can't simply say "It was made in MMxxx, so obviously it's in HD"

There are just as many comments, both here and on DS, from BBC people saying that it wasn't, and given that they didn't show it on the channel, then I'm actually more inclined to believe that's the reason - not that they simply didn't show it for some odd quirky reason.
 

Bachstrad

Prominent Member
How many programmes, apart from sport, have Sky made in HD?

In fact, how many programmes have Sky made?

Loads! Sometimes I wonder if you even have Sky HD from the posts you make. :rolleyes:

The most enjoyable HD series I saw recently on Sky One HD was Ross Kemp in Afghanistan.

Aside from the HD programs they commission, they also helped to fund the restoration and HD mastering of 'Zulu' and 'The Italian Job', for the recent Michael Caine season. 'Zulu' was reference stuff ... absolutely fantastic!

ATB

Max
 

Bachstrad

Prominent Member
I really don't think it's as simple as saying "Of course it was."

As noted on some of the various BBC blogs and in emails, not all film formats are considered acceptable, for example. And there are other considerations, such as whether or not a particular crew has HD experience, or a co-production company who may be supplying equipment, which mean that you can't simply say "It was made in MMxxx, so obviously it's in HD"

There are just as many comments, both here and on DS, from BBC people saying that it wasn't, and given that they didn't show it on the channel, then I'm actually more inclined to believe that's the reason - not that they simply didn't show it for some odd quirky reason.

OK, I'll agree to disagree with you, let's wait and see if it appears later in HD. I bet it does!

ATB

Max
 
Loads! Sometimes I wonder if you even have Sky HD from the posts you make. :rolleyes:

The most enjoyable HD series I saw recently on Sky One HD was Ross Kemp in Afghanistan.

Aside from the HD programs they commission, they also helped to fund the restoration and HD mastering of 'Zulu' and 'The Italian Job', for the recent Michael Caine season. 'Zulu' was reference stuff ... absolutely fantastic!

ATB

Max
A fly on the wall documentary. What else? Seriously I don't know, because every time I look at the guide I see very little on that is in HD. Have they made something like a Frost/Morse type drama series, in HD or SD? Have they made a life on earth type series? What about something like Torchwood? Shown any concerts? Anything like that. I have been working away during the week for the past two years so I won't know what I've missed.

Rotten lighting in the front room but there's the box that has been trouble free(wood touched) along with a VCR, a Sony home cinema, a Tecnomate sat box, a viaccess cam with an out of date ART card in it, an X Cam, and the box that the Conax cam came in for the Digitalb card.
 

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tomd84

Established Member
Now Freesat is out i should have BBC HD very soon :) i refuse to pay sky £10 a month to watch HD when the only HD channel im likey to watch is bbc or channel 4 has i have no intrest in sport what so ever
 

Starburst

Distinguished Member
Now Freesat is out i should have BBC HD very soon :) i refuse to pay sky £10 a month to watch HD when the only HD channel im likey to watch is bbc or channel 4 has i have no intrest in sport what so ever




Yet again you don't have to pay SKY a tenner to watch BBC HD or even CH4HD, buy the box and the smartcard (or use an ex-sub card) and you are in business.
Of course SKY HD hardware is not cost really effective if you only want the HD/SD channels which is where Freesat HD DVR's or even the non-recordable single tuner models have the edge.

You do have to pay a tenner if you want to use the DVR functions of the SKY+HD and that is where the eventual Freesat HD DVR will be a bonus assuming ITVHD viewing doesnt block the DVR options:)
 

Bachstrad

Prominent Member
A fly on the wall documentary. What else? Seriously I don't know, because every time I look at the guide I see very little on that is in HD. Have they made something like a Frost/Morse type drama series, in HD or SD? Have they made a life on earth type series? What about something like Torchwood? Shown any concerts? Anything like that. I have been working away during the week for the past two years so I won't know what I've missed.

Rotten lighting in the front room but there's the box that has been trouble free(wood touched) along with a VCR, a Sony home cinema, a Tecnomate sat box, a viaccess cam with an out of date ART card in it, an X Cam, and the box that the Conax cam came in for the Digitalb card.

The Ross Kemp show was fantastic! What about Hogfather? Robbie Williams Live? :rolleyes:

Why am I trying to justify it to you, you have it! I can't be blamed for you not watching it and knowing what programs have been broadcast! If you dislike it so much and consider the four hours of HD from the BBC to be better than the offering from Sky, why did you ever subscribe? Didn't you do any homework on what to expect. More to the point, why haven't you cancelled? :confused:

Perhaps you might be enlightened by watching this interview with Elaine Pyke, Sky One's Commissioning Editor.

Oh and BTW, they're going to remake Blake 7 too, see here for details

EDIT: :oops: Forgot these for you, have a look here and here! I guess you must have missed The Colour of Magic too!

ATB

Max
 

derek500

Prominent Member
Now Freesat is out i should have BBC HD very soon :) i refuse to pay sky £10 a month to watch HD when the only HD channel im likey to watch is bbc or channel 4 has i have no intrest in sport what so ever

I wouldn´t rush out then. With Wimbledon/Euro 2008/Olympics, once the summer comes BBC HD is going to be full of sport!! Also no C4 HD on Freesat in the short term.
 

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