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Why Obvious Layer Changes?

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by binbag, Sep 8, 2005.

  1. binbag

    binbag
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    Every time I see a layer change I can't help thinking that they could have found a better place on the DVD to have put the swap - the extras being one of them! I assume that there is a technical reason to have them during the film but is there any scope to move them to a part where there's a fade out or stationary image?

    If there is a job out there picking the place to put the layer change in a film then count this as an application.
     
  2. LV426

    LV426
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    Where the position of the layer change has to be depends on the data size of the movie file(s) on the disc. If they are greater than the capacity of a layer, then the movie has to have one or more layer changes in it. The choice of the position is up to the mastering process, though. And you are right - for too many films the choice is poor and/or badly executed. Too often, while the pause isn't an issue for the picture, no consideration was given to the accompanying sound dropout.

    Interestingly (and I can't profess to knowing how it's done) all (?) Superbit titles have an undetectable layer change; so it can be done.
     
  3. Razor

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    I didnt know that. Cheers LV :thumbsup:

    I have seen many dvd's with layer changes in stupid places. Would it not be best to place the layer change at the change of scene rather than the middle of it. This make more sense to me. :D
     
  4. shaithis

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    I always thought that some DVD players seem to show the layer-change worse then others but now that you mention Superbits I am finding it hard to remember a layer change on a Superbit title.....

    Hmmm. I think these LCs will annoy me more then ever now thanks :p
     
  5. pRot3us

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    Yet another reason to use a HTPC setup

    Layer changes, what are they? :rotfl: :p
     
  6. Razor

    Razor
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    pRot3us :hiya:

    Do you rip them to your HDD and then play from there. :D
     
  7. Gary D

    Gary D
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    you could always buy i decent dvd player that handles layer change better. i dont think i ever noticed one on my 575. ;) :D

    Gary
     
  8. Razor

    Razor
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    I thought you said decent dvd player [​IMG]

    :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
     
  9. pRot3us

    pRot3us
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    :hiya: Razor

    Nope, I use a program called DVD Idle Pro

    As well as giving you region-free and macrovision/operation locking removal (you can fast forward/skip anything) on the fly, it also allows you to cache/buffer the dvd thats playing to RAM/HDD thus taking away the layer change. Caching the movie is also good if you have a noisy dvd-rom drive as it will only spin up shortly a few times during the movie (or only once if you set the cache large enough) :smashin:
     
  10. Gary D

    Gary D
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    oi you, your not to big to have your legs slapped :D nothing wrong with 575 beautiful machine :) And seriously, ive never noticed a layer change in the year i've had it.

    Gary
     
  11. Razor

    Razor
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    pRot3us :hiya:

    Nice tip, I will look into adding this to my HTPC setup. I currently use anydvd for region free playing.

    :thumbsup:

    Gary :hiya:

    :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
     
  12. cabstar

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    Is this because superbit titles are not dual layer.... :thumbsup:

    They have no extras & unless the movies is over 2 hours then still no reason to use dual layer disc format.

    Regards

    Gary
     
  13. LV426

    LV426
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    cabstar: Superbits are (all?) DVD9s (dual layer). There IS a reason to use a DVD9 even for a shortish film - higher bitrate, meaning less compression artefacts - this is the theory (at least) behind superbits and their lack of extras.

    razor: IMO the best place to put a layer change is often at a scene change. However, there are cases where a hard scene change on the visual is not accopmanied by a hard change on the audio side - perhaps some background noise or music continues across the break, which then makes it audible if not visible - a factor often overlooked by whoever sets the change point.

    The absolute best places to put layer changes are at points in movies where there is no onscreen movement AND silent audio. Some of the least visible have been placed, for example, right in the middle of a head to head dialogue scene, with no background sounds, when one speaker pauses for thought. The effect, then, is simply to extend the pause that's already there by the half second or so it takes the player to find its place. Very effective. I wish I could quote a good example off the top of my head, but I can't.

    Where a hard scene change is used, then IMO, the most effective way to do it is to actually place the change between the first and second frames of the new scene (not between the last and first at the changeover). A momentary pause right at the start of a new scene is somehow less visible than one at the end of a scene.
     

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