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Why no PE50's?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by xx396, Aug 8, 2005.

  1. xx396

    xx396
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    I just wondered why not many people are buying the PE50 and largely going for the PV500 instead. Its like £500 more and as far as I'm aware, its difficult to tell the difference between high def on HD and SD sets at a normal viewing distance of 10ft. Secondly despite no HDMI it'll accept HD through component and although HDMI is supposed to be theoretically better, it is not always the case in practice and only pixel peeping will find it. Again at 10ft most won't be able to tell. So I figure the high def will look almost identical across the board on all the 8th gen sets. Am I wrong??

    After that SD as a rule looks better on a SD set so isn't it a great buy, or should I follow the herd and go for the PV500 as well! I prefer the TV's to the panels so am choosing between the PE50 and PV500 but possibly considering the PWD8 too.
     
  2. k0rn

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    1. HD looks MUCH better on a P500 than on any SD PDP with 480 lines. It´s definately not "almost identical".

    2. The PV500 does SD material VERY well. I can´t imagine the 50 can do any better than this.

    So unless you have to save the money, the PV500 would be better in every way...
     
  3. kenji-san

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    Buy the pe50, and save the money. Or buy the pa50, same but without the freeview box, and save some more.
    pv500 isn't even fully HD(which is 1920*1080), merely 1024*768, so when bluray/hddvd eventually comes around, the picture would still have to be down converted.
    Buy a great SD set now, and in 5+ years time buy a great HD set for the same price. By then the hd players will be cheap, and there'll be hd movies plenty about.
    In my opinion, it's not the £500 extra worth. But then again we all prioritize our money differently.
     
  4. Sulis

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    Minor points: the PE50 has no VGA input, no SD slot, and much less powerful speakers. And when SKY goes over to full HDCP programming you'll lose out (but I don't expect that for a couple of years now). Otherwise, it's a great screen, the contrast is slightly better (according to Panasonic's figures), and you do indeed save some money. And it's not as bulky.
     
  5. xx396

    xx396
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    The only one of those I'm bothered about is the lack of VGA. I take it the best picture you can get out of Sky SD is RGB scart converted to VGA, is it much better than normal RGB?

    On the one hand theres some saying HD signals don't compare to the PV500 on an SD set and others saying the PWD8 SD can't be outdone at normal viewing distance and has the best of both worlds across the whole viewing spectrum with its flexibility.
     
  6. Sulis

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    SKY RGB > AV1 (RGB) is pretty damn good. Can't see the point of going to VGA, myself...
     
  7. k0rn

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    You haven´t seen the PV500 with a decent HD signal, haven´t you? Otherwise you wouldn´t be so theoretical about this.
     
  8. gizlaroc

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    Regarding number 1, the panny SD screens are very close to the HD screens, it isn't night and day differences.

    Number 2 you are probably right, my HD6 does a far better job with Sky than my PW6 ever could, when in theory it should be better as it is doing less scaling.


    The other option is go for a HD7 you could get one now for around £2000 and add a scaler at a later date to really see it shine.
    My HD6 and scaler is awesome, alot better than the PV500, only reason I am thinking of getting rid of it is to get the 50" version.
    HDMI really isn't bothering me, the plasmas wont accept native res at 50hz on the dvi or hdmi inputs anyway, so you will want to go in with RGBhv, this means adding an hdcp stripper and then going into your scaler.

    Out of all of them I would put them in the following order with Panasonic screens, HD 1024x758 panels, SD 480 panels, then the Viera PV500 followed by the PE/PA50.
     
  9. Korum

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    Wholeheartedly agree with you K0rn, After having seen Xbox media centre running at 1080i on my PV500 I was gobsmacked.I was under the impression that 1080i wouldn't look much better than 720p because of the resolution of the PV500 but it does look somewhat better and seeing HD resolutions make 480p look seriously average, I can't wait for the Xbox360 in 720p.

    XX396, you really shouldn't make comments like this without having seen any HD content on a PV500, I'm sure than £500 might not seem that much If you get the opportunity to see it in action.IMO the addition of the PV500's VGA input is worth a few hundred quid over the PE50 even before HDMI and superior resolution comes into it.

    If you really can't see yourself using the extra's that the PV500 has go for a PA50, And I didn't follow the herd as you put it, I pondered and researched the plasma market for months,travelling to home cinema specialists to scrutinize all the screens i was interested in before i went with the PV500.
     
  10. NWhiteley

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    hi gizlaroc. from what you say in the last paragraph, am i correct in thinking that you rate the pwd8 screen higher than the pv500?
    i am considering getting the pwd8, and this kind of advice will help me make a decision quicker.

    cheers...neil
     
  11. Jazz Monkey Jr

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    One of the reasons they took the VGA input off the standard Viera is to sell more HD panels, and I think it worked.
    I did quite a lot of research and was going to go for the PW7, but in the end it would have been about £1600, so I thought the PV500 was the better option.
    If the PHD8 came out the same time I would have probably gone for that, but the PV500 is very 'wife friendly' and really shines when you put a HD feed through it.
    I am very happy with the picture, Freeview, DVD etc.
    It is my first plasma and VERY impressed with the picture and the overall package. My viewing isn't spoiled by ANY of the problems mentioned on here.

    It is like anything in life, if you're a happy customer you may tell a couple of people, but if you are unhappy you are likely to tell 20 people.
    Whatever plasma you decide to go for, at least you will know what to look for and will get the best advice on these forums.
     
  12. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    Yeah, well not the 8 as I havent seen it, but we were playing around with D-theater the other night on a mates new PV500 and his PW5, and we both prefered the PW5, U-571 looked awesome on the PW5 and you would never guess that it was only 480 lines of resolution on the screen. So as long as they don't do anything stupid with the PW8 I would go for one over a Viera personally.
    However as Mal says, alot of people want everything in one neat package and can't be bothered with a seperate amp and speakers etc.
    Different strokes for different folks.
    My mate wanted something with hdmi and a higher resolution, he now concedes that maybe he fell for all the hype, he would have been better to have bought a scaler now, get more out of the PW5 and then upgraded to an HD8 or bought an HD7 when all the Hi-Def stuff arrives.
     
  13. NWhiteley

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    mal, this forum is currently my only source of info for av equipment. i cant and wont trust the reviews of magazines, as they are mainly driven by money. (i know these are forums of a well respected online review magazine, but seem to be seperate entities). therefore, any future purchases will be based upon the recommendations of the members on this forum.



    ....neil

    p.s. what is D-theater?
     
  14. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    D-Theater is D-VHS pre recorded Hi-Def films, they are usually 1080i and look stunning, it is a US format and they are still regarded as refernce quality and tend to look slightly better than some of the off air stuff that has been recorded.
     
  15. Jazz Monkey Jr

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    That's the best way - you just can't get a decent demo anywhere, comparing different screens with different sources.
    TBH if I was thinking about getting a PV500 now, I might be a little worried, I think the best place to view a screen is someone elses set-up.
     
  16. Korum

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    Yeah, like gizlaroc said some people prefer the all in one plasma, I personally wanted both options.I like using the in built speakers for normal viewing and put the surround sound on when possible (ie when the missus/kids are in a deep sleep).As mal put it the PV500 is very 'wife friendly' and i could never have believed she would actually like it as much as she does, she's often comments how nice it looks and she can actually use it (Sorry I don't mean to be sexist but she's a technophobe).If I'd got a panel it would have been a real nightmare for the rest of the family to use.My mate has had a PW4 (without a scaler) for around 5 years now and it still looks superb now with the right source so panels probably do have the edge in PQ but I love the Viera's.
     
  17. kenji-san

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    hello,

    just to comment on the lack of vga/hdmi. I've hooked my pc/dvd player/3 consoles up to the component input on the pa50, and it all looks great.
    Technically it's not that big of a difference between vga and component. Also, you can get vga-> comp boxes, and probably also hdmi-> component boxs if needed.
    Of course, viewing hd stuff from my pc to the pa50, it would look abit better on a pv500, but it's perfectly sharp and viewable on a pa50 too.
    Other stuff hd signal brings, like added colour depth etc shines through on the pa50 as well.
    It all boils down to if your willing to pay the extra bucks for getting the 288*172 extra resolution. The missing vga/hdmi inputs there are ways around.
     
  18. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    So far non of the Pnasonic screens have looked better with digital inputs, the analogue inputs look so much nicer.
    I stopped using the DVI on mine and went back to RGBhv.
     
  19. kenji-san

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    that's what i heard too from various people. something about to many digital artifacts showing up?

    btw korum, did you find out anything on the missing geometry settings problem thing? I'm still searching for some kind of geometry setting menu, still living in the hope. :)
     
  20. Korum

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    No mate, not yet. I plugged the PC in the VGA input the other night and you can move the screen around and alter a few other settings within an advanced options menu, just wish it had these advanced settings on all the inputs.The only plus is that anything running in 720p/1080i fits my screen perfectly (no vertical borders) so hopefully it will not be a problem with next-gen consoles.

    btw: I've been looking on US forums as well.It's called the PX50U/PX500U over there, just thought they might have found something since it's been out longer there I think.
     
  21. kenji-san

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    ah i see. well i've only seen the borders on a 480 signal too, so it shouldn't be a problem with the next-gens. but still.. :( I'm trying to get it solved through a danish panasonic technician, that maybe will get access to some manufacture setting menu in the tv (if it exists). i'll post in the correct thread if i discover any findings.
    sorry for the :offtopic: :oops:
     
  22. gizlaroc

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    You need to find that setting if you want to use a pc because you need to adjust the size to get it 1:1 mapped.
     
  23. Korum

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    gizlaroc, what does 1:1 mapping mean ?

    When I use the PC the only resolution that looks OK is 1024x768 but that's in 4:3 and looks stretched, every other resolution doesn't look right as if each letter of text is lighter down one side (does this make sense ?)
     
  24. gizlaroc

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    Yeah that makes sense, if you run 1024x768 into a panasonic panel with a 1024x768 test pattern with one pixel on and one pixel off you will see loads of banding.
    When you adjust the hor and ver size all of a sudden it snaps in and you stop the internal scaler working because you are giving the screen exactly what it needs, you then use the clock phase to get it perfect, you will know when that is right because the screen gets rid of any noise and becomes alot brighter. You can't see the noise unitl you have it pixel mapped, and then you know you have it perfect when the noise disappears.
    On my screen this gives me an image with zero overscan, nothing at all, so I then have to use my scaler to zoom in 4% so I cant see all the crap at the top of the image.
    I also put all my consoles through the scaler too, and use the zoom feature to reduce the black borders at the sides of them, this does not affect the 1:1 mapping it keeps the timing the same just zooms in on the picture within the active image.

    You don't seem to be able to do this with anything other than 60Hz using the digital inputs so that is another reason for me not to use them.
     
  25. kenji-san

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    that's one of the reasons i'm desperate to get this thing sorted.

    that scaler you have seems like a great piece of kit, would've bought one myself hadn't it been for the price. :)
    but it seems that you get alot of cool features for your money.
     
  26. gizlaroc

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    You have a problem in that the HD screens at 42" are using rectangle pixels to get a 16:9 image, so when you feed it 1024x768 you are feeding it a 4:3 image and the screen is stretching it to 16:9.

    Does that really matter though, surely for the desktop who cares if the My Computer icon is a little squashed?
    As long as you tell your player that you want anamorphic on a 4:3 display it is then the correct ratio?
    The only thing I can think may be a problem is viewing photos?
     
  27. kenji-san

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    .. or anything else for that matter, as anything the pc is showing is based on a 4:3 format? Unless you add to the 1024 in the 1024*768 to get a horizontally squashed picture on the pc, which in turn when sent to the pv500's 1024*768 set in 16:9 mode will look normal? If you understand what i'm getting at?
    Or is it me who's way out, can't figure this out. :D

    but this means that the pe50 has square pixels with its 852*480, whereas pv500 has rectangle?
    this is kinda weird, but there's no source that send 1024*768 in 16:9, so essentially everything pv500 shows is somehow converted or reformatted?
    Any idea gizlaroc?

    edit: oops, math mistake. :blush:
     
  28. xx396

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    Wow why do the panels have better picture than the tv's? You'd expect the same technology just with speakers and video inputs extra? I guess I'm choosing between the PWD8 and PV500 then. I would like to see them both running in the flesh but don't know anywhere local with the facilities for a good demo atm. I do find that you can't really go wrong with the opinion of the masses on a forum such as this!

    Viewing will be 75% Sky SD, 25% DVD; probably not getting HD in the near future but obviously wanted to be ready for it if we choose to. I really want this set to last 10 years as opposed to getting a new one when HD is more mainstream. I think the wife would be happier with the tv look rather than the panel so that sways me too; fill in the following statement - I should get the ..... :D
     
  29. gizlaroc

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    ......screen that suits my situation best.



    The panels have less going on inside them, you can turn the panel into a TV but the tuner is an external box rather than internal like on the Viera range, but just about everyone who does this ends up ditching the tuner and going straight in.
    You also get a lot more options that are user accessable to squeeze more out of the image too.

    If you are not interested in HD yet then why pay all that extra now, in 2 years time the PV500 will seem expensive, so if you are not going to take advantage straight away it is a waste of money.
    My HD6 was £3500 last summer and I am now selling it to get the 50" and I am expecting to loose about 50% of that and I havent even made use of the HD features properly yet! I would have been better to have kept my PW7 that I got £1k for, I would probably still get £750 for that, a loss of £250, not £1750.

    What I am trying to say is this, don't pay extra for features you may use in 3 years time, if you don't want these features for 3 years get them in 3 years, they will be better and a lot cheaper.
     
  30. Sulis

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    In the past the panels (PWs and PHDs) and the TVs (Vieras) coexisted happily, even though the panels were nominally for business use. Now, however, the panels are exclusively produced by the Business arm of Panasonic displays, and all Panasonic's consumer focus is on the TVs. Because of this, the pricing between the two may not make much sense, even though they are using the same glass in the screens. It seems inevitable that the TVs will focus on affordability, while the panels will focus on display quality and flexibility of input. So you would expect the quality of the components and circuits in the panels to be better.

    Personally, I much prefer the simplicity of the panels. However, the quality of the SKY picture on the PV500 is excellent, the inbuilt speakers make it very wife- and kid-friendly, and it has the over-riding benefit of being available to buy right now! The picture seems to me to be a quantum leap ahead of the older Vieras, and it has better inputs that the older models as well (HDMI). So I wonder if the picture quality will be that much better in the new panels.

    I'm sure the new panels will be much more configurable, but apart from a bit of overscan, there doesn't seem to be that much wrong with the PV500 picture to start with. If the 'secret service menu' is ever discovered, even that may not be an issue.

    To sum up: if you like the picture quality of the PV500, you'll probably like the PHD8 panels, too. If you want an HD plasma now, you have no choice but to go for the PV500. If you really prefer the look of a panel, and are prepared to add speakers and an AV amp to your costs, wait for the panel. If having the best PQ is important, however small the margin, then wait for the panels.

    PS: I would also wait for the new Pioneers, as well, as they may steal the PHDs thunder...
     

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