Question Why no black borders and only white option?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by AllTaken, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. AllTaken

    AllTaken
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    I've been looking at some tab-tensioned electric screens and noticed that a Linea Tab-Tensioned is offered with an option of no black borders in a 'flexwhite'.

    What scenario does this screen fit? I'm baffled by it, is it the case that you would fit your own border material? Apologies if it's an obvious reason behind it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  2. Roku2

    Roku2
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    I have a Elite Screens edge- free screen and I love it. Borders on a screen for in-home use are plain ugly
     
  3. AllTaken

    AllTaken
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    Thanks, so it’s purely an aspect ratio thing? Makes sense, I’ve found a draper linea Matt White tab tensioned (130”) that’s a customer return. Would £450 be worth it compared to new cost and the screen type?
     
  4. mb3195

    mb3195
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    Black borders will ALWAYS give you a better perceived contrast ratio.

    If picture quality it important to you, get a screen with black (non reflective) bars.
     
  5. AllTaken

    AllTaken
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    Can a border be applied retrospectively to a tab-tensioned electric? Also, what if the image is projected with a dark background behind the screen?
     
  6. AllTaken

    AllTaken
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    After some more research it appears that having a dark background brings many of the border pros. I'm tempted by a borderless screen now to do away with aspect ratio problems.
     
  7. Roku2

    Roku2
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    Why not just have a black background and a border-less screen?
    Borders on a screen hanging on a white wall remind me of a cheap over sized LED tv
     
  8. mb3195

    mb3195
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    Unless you want a black Devore velvet wall, you won’t get the levels of black by going borderless.

    The blacker the border, the whiter the whites will be on the screen. It’s an optional illusion as much as anything.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  9. mb3195

    mb3195
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    You’ll still have the problem as your screen will undoubtably be a 16:9 ratio, meaning you’ll still have the projected black bars top and bottom. If your screen is CinemaScope, you will have black bars left and right.

    The only ideal solution to masking issues is by having a permanent fixed screen with adjustable masking (like I have), otherwise you will have a compromise.
     
  10. Vila

    Vila
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    Because of the way a projected image works it benefits from black borders to increase the perceived contrast of the image, and allows you to project a clean sharp edge to the image if there is any overspill free from bloom.

    There is good reason why all cinemas use black borders.


    Some people might think having a tv on wheels, trailing wires, a christmas tree year round and a bed in the same room as your home theatre is ugly.... some people understand how a projected image works.
     
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  11. gamingdave

    gamingdave
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    I couldn't have the tree all year round, it get's in the way of pulling my (black bordered) screen all the way down. Well, that was till my daughter DID pull it all the way down today, and now it won't go back up! Oh well, just have to get that attic conversion done sooner than later. Oh, and when I build that, the old setup is going in the bedroom. But will that be a cinema in the bedroom, or a bed in the cinema?
     
  12. Roku2

    Roku2
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    8:55am, breakfast and MMA on big screen. Curtains open, lights on in the kitchen, edge-free screen and picture just pops nevertheless! Good times! 20180211_085528.jpg
     
  13. AllTaken

    AllTaken
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    So having a borderless screen is a complete no-no? I have dark grey walls.
     
  14. Vila

    Vila
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    Having grey walls is going to help your black levels and your contrast a lot.

    The wall my screen is hung on is grey, but even black painted walls wouldn't look as black as the border of a black 'veltex' style border as it absorbs all the light, improves the perceived contrast and cleans up the edge of the image that you can allow a slight overspill of.

    Nothing is a complete no no - just every choice you make has an impact on the image quality you get.


    Yes the image is bright shame your not helping it any with the white border you've created at the edge of the screen that goes straight onto white walls...

    The bloom this creates would also be unacceptable to many enthusiasts which is why at a minimum black borders are suggested. 294b82e943ffbf09d26dad70c7be072e.jpg
     
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  15. mb3195

    mb3195
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    This is what a screen with black borders looks like....

    860D92DD-B34E-4177-95E7-69F512F125CA.jpeg
     
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  16. AllTaken

    AllTaken
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    @mb3195

    Here's my current setup, no screen borders with grey wall. Feel free to critique as I'm by no means an enthusiast, black levels look great to my eyes.

    IMG_0108.JPG IMG_0119.JPG IMG_0121.JPG IMG_0124.JPG IMG_0125.JPG
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2018
  17. mb3195

    mb3195
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    Always difficult to judge based on photos. It comes down to what you’re happy with. Personally, within my room I wouldn’t be able to live with the reflection from your unit at the bottom of the screen or the (black/grey) bars on your cinema scope format. But that is in my completely dedicated cinema room, I’d probably be able to deal with it if it was a multi purpose room.

    The problem with this game (Av), is that you can always strive for perfection, but the closer to perfection you get, the harder it is to gain minimal improvements and the more expensive it tends to get.

    The main thing is to be happy yourself.
     
  18. AllTaken

    AllTaken
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    I couldn't agree more. Do you think my examples above will change drastically using a drop down borderless flexwhite? Wall will still be grey behind.

    Basically I'm put off by cheaper tab-tensioned drop down displays and have found a premium screen for a very reasonable price, it is however flexwhite.

    I would choose a fixed display but it is a TV space also.
     
  19. Roku2

    Roku2
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    The other issue is that once showtime is over, projector is off, and lights are on you are left with this big ugly Samsung LED tv looking like screen hanging on your wall. My screen without edges almost becomes invisible when PJ is off and can barely tell it from the rest of the wall
     
  20. mb3195

    mb3195
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    Is it a reAct screen? If so, yes it will be better. I’ve not seen one myself but heard great things about them.
     
  21. AllTaken

    AllTaken
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    @Roku2 aside from the borders, which Samsung LED TV hurt you? ;)
     
  22. AllTaken

    AllTaken
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    It is this one here:

    Draper Linea Matt White 270x195cm | eBay
     
  23. Vila

    Vila
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    Yes but you still have to look at a ugly TV on wheels an ugly Christmas tree, a ugly mess of cables and a bed year round in your viewing room... and your black levels are non existent.
     
  24. mb3195

    mb3195
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    I don’t think an edge less screen will look great if it’s fixed regardless of being borderless or not. Why not go for a recessed pull down screen if being used as a main living room? When it’s up you won’t see it at all.
     
  25. AllTaken

    AllTaken
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    Is the above screen linked likely to be worse than my straight onto borderless grey wall at present?
     
  26. mb3195

    mb3195
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    It’s not a react screen, just a flexiwhite material.

    I’m not sure what you’re trying to achieve? Do you want it just because you can get a deal on this specific one? If so, going from experience, I wouldn’t go ahead with it as it isn’t necessarily the one you want. Make a choice on the one you actually want and get that one, it will save you money in the long term.

    I would definitely go for a black bordered screen myself. But there are guys on here who are happy with borderless.
     
  27. mb3195

    mb3195
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    Are you projecting directly onto your grey wall? If so, that will be one of the reasons why you are happy with your blacks. Projecting onto a white screen will elevate black levels but increase brightness.

    What projector do you have?
     
  28. Roku2

    Roku2
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    All of them. Even other brands that use thick borders. Maybe because I'm so used to LG Oled TV
     
  29. Vila

    Vila
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    If your current screen is just a borderless plain white screen and the draper is just a borderless plain white screen its likely to be very similar.

    I can certainly see that the veltex border of my screen is 'blacker' than the grey wall behind it in a blacked out room when watching the projector.

    You could always try a roll of black velvet temporarily (low tack masking taped?) into place on your current setup to see if you can notice a difference.
     
  30. AllTaken

    AllTaken
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    I'm looking at that option as it's available for £450 which seemed like a very decent saving. I'm not an enthusiast and don't know if the black level difference between the flexwhite and my grey wall will be as perceivable to me as someone like yourself. I could of course go with a cheaper tab tension that is bordered, even grey, but that's a whole other minefield due to wrinkles and quality. Draper tab-tensioned seems reliable, albeit white at this price.

    I'm using a BenQ W1700.

    Other option is to apply some velvet tape around the draper flexwhite borderless, I'm not sure that's even possible with it being a drop down.
     

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