Why no [email protected] or 72 hz?

Discussion in 'Desktop & Laptop Computers Forum' started by NickBull, Nov 12, 2001.

  1. NickBull

    NickBull
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    Gpt projector installed and pc hooked up. Struggles to get 1280x720 working! The HTPC is fine at 1440x960 but as soon as I try any wide screen resolutions It reverts to the setting it started at?

    The picture looks stunning at 1440x960 even though it isn't true wide screen resolution. The aspect ratios look spot on and the picture is smooth and detailed, even though the PJ is still waiting for Rolands final tweakings!

    Can anyone suggest a reason why the adaptor isn't accepting 1280x720?

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  2. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    It's usually because it thinks the monitor can't handle it.
    There is a Sony widescreen monitor that usually gets used for these occasions.

    The model number is Sony GDM-W900

    you should be ok - mine was showing a laptop-style scrolling desktop (virtual desktop) until I changed my monitor to this.

    If this doesn't work then make sure you have the latest radeon drivers

    Hope this works
     
  3. NickBull

    NickBull
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    I'll give it a go, thanks. Don't know what I'd do without these forums sometimes.
     
  4. NickBull

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    Thanks, I tried that and it seemed to work. I', now running at 1280x720 but I'm still undecided if it looks sharper or not.

    The focus on some of the icons on the desctop is definately better so maybe i've hit it's sweetspot. Still a nice smooth image with no visible line structure etc.

    I need to devide before Roland comes back for the final tweaks as the 1280x720 image is a couple of inces too small for the screen.

    Thanks again

    Nick
     
  5. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    I'm glad it worked - that must mean that I'm starting to get to grips with all this! at last :)

    You shouldn't have to decide before Roland turns up.

    He should be able to set it up with several sets of settings. One for each resolution/source/refresh/etc.

    That way you can decide after it's been calibrated. :)
     
  6. NickBull

    NickBull
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    Good idea! I'm pretty sure that the 'sweetspot' is supposed to be 1280x720. But I couldn't really tell. Like you say, once the final tweaking has been done it may become clearer which is the best.

    :)

    Thanks again. I might have to put together something about all the problems etc I've encountered, for other complete novices like myself. But it's gettign the time. Got the HC room to finish off, the pc to quieten down and 100 movies to re-watch!!!

    Nick
     
  7. NickBull

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    I think I was wrong, I was getting 1280x720 but only in high colour not true colour. This is very frustrationg now!

    I havn't registered powerstrip yet, could this be having some effect with me having some functionality removed/dissabled?
     
  8. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    I'm afraid you've reached the end of my very short road of knowledge :)
    Anyone else help?
     
  9. NickBull

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    I am actually sure it was working ok before, but now won't display in more than high colour! It's very strange esp considering that it works fine at higher resolutions!!!

    Girlfriend is out tonight, so I should be able to have a good old play about, if anyone has any suggestions I'm be v gratefull.

    thanks

    Nick
     
  10. Jeff

    Jeff
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    16bit colour desktop should be fine, the overlay uses 24bit colour regardless of what you select for the desktop.

    Jeff
     
  11. NickBull

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    Thanks Jeff.

    I have a lot to learn about pc's.

    One think I did notice was if I ran at 1280x1024 in true colour the picture was a lot darker and redder than running at 1440x960.
    Any idea why, the higher resolution looked a lot more natural.

    Also the picture is looking a bit blurred, could this be too high a resolution causing scan line to blur into each other. Roland hasn't done the final set up so I really need to have the PC running optimally so that he can just concentrate on the picture!

    Any help as usual, would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks

    Nick
     
  12. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    Nick
    Don't know about the colour change - sounds odd.
    Re resolution
    The barco 8xx run best at 1280(or perhaps 1440)x720 on a 16:9 shaped projection screen. at 960 the scanlines do indeed overlap.
    If you have a 4:3 screen then 960 should be fine.

    All this is second hand info, though - mine isn't installed yet :(
     
  13. NickBull

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    Thanks Alex,

    I heared the same, 1280x720 is the sweetspot. I'm going to try it tonight with high colour and see how it looks. I think that when I thought it was ok before it was actually on this setting anyway and I do beleive that the picure was noticably sharper.

    Both 1280x720 and the higher resolution give pretty seamless pictures, but as everyone says, 1280x720 is the optimum for an 808. Might even try a lower resolution like 1024x whatever!

    Any idea when you're getting your's installed yet?
    I'm hoping to get my room sorted before christmas when I'll have some time off to really enjoy it and get a feel for it.

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  14. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    Rolands actually been a bit bad at getting back to me with a date :(
    He's flat-out busy at the moment - I was hoping he was going to be able to tie it in with your/fulabeer's tweaks.

    That day is fast approaching and he hasn't confirmed. I'll have to give him a call.
     
  15. Jenz

    Jenz
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    You'll find on an 8xx that 720 lines using an Anamorphic squeeze (which is what 1280x720 is) is the best sweetspot. 960 will overlap on all but the newest Projector (my 808s has 1600 hours and overlaps at 960).

    A 4:3 Image would be best served by 960 assuming that there's no overlap but of course would use so many lines to display Black Bar info. Hence if you watch predominantly Widescreen anamorphic the former is better for you.

    If you go upto a 1209 or 9inch CRT then 1440x960 becomes much more viable.

    Regards Jenz.
     
  16. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Sometimes the overlay settings can go nuts and you have to reset it all. I often see posts like with HWMC enabled the picture is washed out, when all they have to do is recalibrate the overlay. Obviously if the desktop also looks wrong then its probably something else. Your best bet is to start with 1024x768 in 16:9 mode and optimise that. Then you will have a bench mark to compare against. It's a bit like the tripple jump, you need to get a solid good jump in first before going for the WR. :)

    Jeff
     
  17. NickBull

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    1280x720 is the aim, but it is disconceting that the desktop is only in high colour and not true colour. The pictur isn't bad at 1440 x960 even though it isn't true wide screen, i just think it could be a bit sharper.

    Any advice on playing back 4:3 dvd inside the 16:9 screen? Do i need that xyx or whatever it's called?

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  18. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    That's what I'm using at the moment

    I'm hoping that TheaterTek will negate the need for it.

    YXY also has a neat feature that moves the window slowly around the screen to eliminate burn-in.
     
  19. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Nick,

    Just out of curiosity are you aiming for 1280x720 because of the higher horizontal resolution over 1024x768 or the lower vertical res or is it something else?

    Jeff
     
  20. NickBull

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    Jeff, I'm not really sure what the theory behind it all is. I went for the demo of my 808 and it was running at 1280x720 which is a pure 16:9 picture I beleive. The concensus was that it was the sweetspot of the projector and It looks great.

    I have a 16:9 screen so it seemed like the ideal resolution to use.

    Like I say, I don't know the thinking behind it all which make it hard for me to knwo if I'm doing things right. I really just want the best picture I can get and then never touch the thing again!!!!

    :D :D

    Cheers

    Nick
     
  21. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    With a flexible device such as a crt projector I think that the feeling is go for a resolution that is an easy multiple of the DVD source. i.e. 720 = 1.5x480
    960 is obviously double (which including deinterlacing = line quadrupling)

    With a fixed panel device like yours matching the output to the projector is much more important ie - 1024x768, 800x600, 1280x1024, or 1366xwhatever the sony is :)

    Anything else would require the projector to scale which is bound to be worse than an hcpc.

    The only thing that seems to make all this a bit of a mystery for me is that whatever resolution I run the hcpc at - it never seems to be scaling the image to the full res - there is always some of the screen used for border, window edge, etc. Surely this means it can't be EXACTLY doubling at 960.

    Any thoughts?
     
  22. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Well the reason I ask is that CRT projectors are mainly about vertical resolution, changing the horizontal resolution from 1024 to 1280 probably doesn't make much difference. Following this logic 1024x768 in 16:9 mode is actually higher res than 1280x720. If you don't get any overlap of horizontal lines at 1024x768 (16:9) then you are probably better off at this res anyway. If you do see overlap then 1280x720 is the next step down.

    Jeff
     
  23. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    You're absolutely right - I guess the only way to tell which looks better is to have an 808 in front of you and try the different resolutions.

    I'm not in this situation yet but I'm sure that Jenz and Roland have tried this - they've settled on 1280x760 for 16:9 shaped screen and 1280x960 for 4:3 shaped screen.

    I'm looking forward to trying though - I've just received Final Fantasy and TFE superbit - I'm sure they will make perfect test material :)

    PS this auto email thing has really changed this forum - it's fantastic!
     
  24. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    here's an interesting thread on the topic of square pixels
    <avs link> if your interested.
     
  25. Rob.Screene

    Rob.Screene
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    Hi,
    I've pretty much lurked here, but thought it's time to contribute and say hello.

    I've got a Barco Data 808s which Roland recently installed. It's running off a Radeon HTPC, WinDVD 3.0, powerstrip (also Girder and an Evation IRman remote receiver)

    Initial resolutions I've got running are (all in true colour):-

    1440x960 @72Hz - for 24fps NTSC region 1 films (720x2, 480x2)
    1440x864 @75Hz - for 25fps PAL region 2/4 films (720x2, 576x1.5)
    1440x720 @72Hz - because thats what Roland told me the sweet spot should be!
    1280x720 @72Hz - because it's a 16:9 ratio (1.78x720, 720)

    The 808s is a 13,500 hours (!) unit, but with green crt replaced and apparently no visible wear on the other two.

    I think 960 may be too high to reveal the noise between scanlines when your nose is up to the screen (7ft wide, 16:9), but reportedly a 1.5x or 2x multiplier is a sweet spot for most scalers, including the Radeon.

    From only a few films and less than overly critical viewing, I'd say my gut feeling is that I prefer running higher than 720 vertical for NTSC films).

    At 960 the desktop fonts may be small and the clock only just readable plus the icons are perhaps slightly out of shape as the destop is 1.5:1 in a 1.78:1 screen, however a desktop looks wierd at this size anyway! The bottom line is that the film source pixels will be scales to a 2x2 area anyway.

    My limited technical experience tells me that an analogue scanning CRT raster won't know the difference between any of the horizontal resolutions - 640, 720, 768, 1280, 1440. The higher the number, the more often the signal voltage is changing. If you go too high the projector won't have the bandwidth to display the changes reasonably accurately, if you go too low then the digital pixels will be apparent.

    I'm looking for the sweetspot where the scaling is sweet and the video pixels merge slightly and have low enough noise to look like film. That's the beauty of a high-end CRT against anything else I've seen.

    I've done a re-convergence on the highest two above resolutions as the projector did drift after a few days as Roland advised.

    Now from the comments here, I'm expecting all my current opinions to be reset once Roland has done the second tune-up.

    Ideally I'd like one resolution and refresh rate that I never have to think about this stuff when watching films!

    regards,
    Rob.
     
  26. NickBull

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    Just by experimentation I've messed about a bit and am now running at 666 vertical res. This seems to give me a very good piture with lots of detail etc. I'm still playing and will compare to 720 when I get a chance.

    I was quite happy with 960i when it was the only one I was able to get working, but reducing the vertical res has definately brought more focus to the pictures and the desktop!

    I'll keep trying but at the moment 666 or 668 vertical seems quite good and maybe even a bit sharper than 720.

    Mine is also a high milage projector Graphics 808 so anything you find or I might find could definately be worth sharing!

    Nick
     
  27. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    I should be in a position to experiment after tomorrow.
    I've got Thurs and Fri off work and Roland is doing the install tomorrow :D
     
  28. NickBull

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    Excellent, you'll get a good picture but it won't be anywhere near it's full potential!

    I'd be interested on your opinions on fan sound, I have a feeling my fans are a bit worn or I'm getting some resonance through the beams in the ceiling. I think it's going to be quite tricky to actually convey fan noise in words though.

    Rob, how's fan noise on yours?

    Nick
     
  29. tryingtimes

    tryingtimes
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    I'm already trying to think of ways to quieten it
    I've got a near silent HCPC and nothing else that produces noise (as opposed to sound :))
    I've got the rear of the projector firing into a stairwell so that may quieten it a bit.

    There are bound to be some quieter fans that are the same spec.
    Fulabeer had the spec on another thread.

    I'm going to be watching a lot of quiet films so this of some importance
     
  30. NickBull

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    Let me know if you find a cost effective solution. I think mine is a bit noisier cos it's quite well used.

    It's been well used but used well if you know what I mean, so the picture is still very good and will give another 5 years of heavy home cinema use. I think I won't be using it that heavily but also would be looking for an upgrade by then. Wether it's still CRT in 5 or so years could be anyones guess!

    Roland said they are just standard PC fans! I don't know if QUIETPC.com would have any that would fit the bill?

    Some of the problem sounds like resonance, I might check the existing ones are all nicely tightened up, maybe some rubber mounting bushes might help or something. It's just a bit tricky to see it when it's on the ceiling!

    It might be worth having a peek at the fan set up whilst it's on the floor, try and suss it out a bit.

    Cheers

    Nick
     

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