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Why LCD rather then DLP?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by cyberheater, Dec 11, 2004.

  1. cyberheater

    cyberheater
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    I've seen quite a few folks here mention all the issues they have with the newer LCD projectors like vertical banding and panel alignment etc...

    I was just wondering why they went with LCD technology in the first place.

    I've switched from LCD tech (AE200) to a DLP machine (BenQ PB6100) and I for one will not be going back. The constrast ratio and picture quality is far superior and the blacks actually look like black.

    I think that there is too much emphasis on 'the dreaded rainbow effect'.

    Sure. I noticed them at first (as did my wife) but after a week or two. Your brain learns not to see them and your left with a amazing picture rather then staring and tweaking VB on a LCD panel.

    I supppose i'm saying that folk that are after a new machine should not sell DLP short.
     
  2. UrbanT

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    My experience is the opposite. Not only do I find the rainbow effect more irritating than the occasional VB, I also get eyestrain and eventually a headache when watching DLP. I simply cannot relax and watch the film.

    Therefore I choose to use LCD which to date I've been very happy with, and look forward to better LCD technology, and DLP's with rainbow eliminated.

    If the choice was as clear cut as you suggest, LCD would have already died as a medium.
     
  3. SeaneyC

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    Except that some people's brains do not learn not to see them, and will be physically ill every time they watch a film!

    Not to mention the MUCH lower resolution/cost aspect of LCD. If there were 1280x720 DLP projectors available for under £1000 then i'd get one too! But i suspect we'll have to wait a few years. If i had the room, i would still use my CRT PJ, but since moving, i simply don't have the room for this beast. It cost me £500 3 years ago and will beat anything at that price, and no lamp changing!
     
  4. Nick_UK

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    It appears that some people see the rainbow effect more than others. I sometimes wonder how many people would actually see it if they weren't forewarned about it. When I got my Benq 6200, I didn't see the effect until I started thinking about it, and I saw it straight away.

    Despite being the owner of a 42" plasma, the projector still comes out to watch movies, because the pj wins hands down. The only reason I got the plasma was because it wasn't convenient to leave the projector set up all the time, and the lamps are quite expensive too.
     
  5. LV426

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    My first DLP (if ever) will be a 3-chip one. Until then, LCD will do it. The issues to which you refer are just cr@p design and/or build quality; there's no intrinsic reason why they have to occur.
     
  6. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Well, I'd love to own a 3-chip DLP when the price is right. If by saying "cr@p design and/or build quality" you mean "built to a price", then I would concur. A rotating colour wheel is not the ideal solution, I agree, but when you are paying £500 to £800 for a projector, that's about all you're presently going to get.

    Maybe if Joe Public buys DLP projectors in sufficient quantities, the 3-chip sub-£1000 pj could become a reality ? Well, I can dream, can't I ? :)
     
  7. windfall

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    There is no doubt in my mind (having recently seen the Mitsubishi HC900 v Sony HS50) that DLP is the way to go. The HC900 was excellent but the colour wheel causes me problems and I certainly dont want it to cause my mates any problems. Next thing I know there will be an ambulance chaser banging the door down!!

    I saw the £20k infocus a while back (the black space ship looking one sorry the model number eludes me) which I believe is a 3 panel DLP? It was shining on a huge screen floor to ceiling, and the image was OUTSTANDING!

    But until as everyone else says the 3 chip DLP's drop to the sub £2k mark I will certainly stick to the LCD, which having had 2 days now is an amazing PJ for the money!

    Tone
     
  8. rpjcheney

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    If you didn't suffer from rainbows, would you have bought the HC900?
     
  9. DEANO-B

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    The Panny AE200 is an terrible machine compared to new LCDs. If you prefer DLPs that's fine but compare them to AE700's and the like! My mate upgraded fomm the 200 to a 700 and WOW the difference. The main reason for purchasing DLPs seemed to be the black levels, but the new crop of LCDs (700,Z3,HS50) have real black levels with 1280x720. I will leave you with this thought ' I watched Kill Bill 2 in HiDef last night, and it blows away the DVD version - can U?'
     
  10. windfall

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    Yep! It was that good!

    Tone
     
  11. cyberheater

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    Personally. Hi res is much less important then colour/contrast/black.

    When I watch a film on my BenQ at 800 x 600 which is probably 800 x 480 in widescreen mode i've never ever thought I need more resolution.
    My AE200 actually was 854 x 480 resolution but i'd take my BenQ's higher constrast ratio etc over higher panel resolution.

    Don't get me wrong here. The AE200 was (is) a fantastic machine. But for me, blacks and contrast are a very important factor which is why I went for a BenQ rather then a second hand AE500.

    Hell, even my wife noticed the difference.
     
  12. markbingo

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    The other thing not yet mentioned is the noise factor. When I was demo'd some DLP machines the thing that really stood out to me was the noise of the unit, they are loud. With so many things moving around in there, I guess I'm not suprised.

    A friend of mine has a SIM DLP machine, and it sounds like a bunch of screws being thrown around for at least 20 minutes, and then dies down to only mildly annoying !

    My Panny 700 whispers.............

    :thumbsup:
     
  13. martian1

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    my impressions seen Hitachi Pj seen sony hs20 lovely picture but ...A bit to good :eek: :confused: i re- viewed LCD against DLP and have come to the conclusion that DLP is very much more cinematic compared to LCD which to try and explain is like putting a bowl of friut [DLP] up against an artificial bowl [LCD]colour bright image sharp its just you can tell something ain't right.
    OR DLP cinema, LCD artificial cinema.
    Having said this i did seem to get a niggle with eye strain after 1 hour with DLP would'nt put me off, who wants to be stuck in front of a 8ft screen for hours at a time. For the quality of dlp i would rather put up with a bit of eye strain and have a break if need be..
     
  14. jhjerpe

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    It's a very individual thing. Personally I cannot stand vertical banding, screen door, poor black levels, dust contamination etc, so I've got down the DLP route. I've owned a PTAE500 and looked in detail at the AE700 and concluded that for normal DVD sources a well-designed DLP machines is to way to go for me. I do see the rainbows, but only occasionally, however on the 500/700 I see the vertical bands constantly.

    So at the end of the day it’s a personal preference, just like most things in life.
     
  15. Nick_UK

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    The Benq is certainly no louder than the average Sky+ box. Certainly not annoying. Mind you, when I've got the cinema amp wound up, thunder storms are not annoying either :laugh:
     
  16. Louis Mazzini

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    As I understand it, vertical banding, if it's there in the panels, can (and will)be seen by everyone. DLP rainbows, on the other hand, are supposedly not seen by everyone.

    Personally, I wouldn't have a single-chip DLP in the house if you paid me. Truthfully. I've seen lots of them, and not only were rainbows irritating in all of them, but they all gave me eyestrain and headaches. Great blacks (although not, to my eyes, the improvement over current LCDs as some seem to think), but, for me, a fundamentally flawed technology.
     
  17. DEANO-B

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    Sorry cyber but you never need more resolution???'. Do you know what resolution is? More resolution = more detail! The detail in 1280x720 films is jaw dropping, and I really think you need to go look at some HiDef stuff before dismissing it. The blacks on my AE700 match DLP's, the contrast ratio is 2000:1, and the colour managment is highly acclaimed by all critic/reviewers. The Panny ae200 is/was a very very poor machine in comparison to todays PJ's.
     
  18. Pinco_Pallino

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    Hi I am new here,

    Also got problems with DLP. We bought an IF5700. Beautiful colors, etc. However, my wife could not watch the whole movie and I also had some eye strain, so we brought it back.

    I also think of friends or family coming over and would not have them suffer from the same problem.

    Looking to LCD (Panny 700 first choice and Sony 50, second). Haven't been able to see any in demo and I guess I will have to buy blindfolded.

    Pinco_Pallino :cool:
     
  19. Nick_UK

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    I don't think you should dismiss any of the technology that quickly. I bought a plasma screen a few weeks ago, and it took a couple of weeks for my eyes to adapt to it. People say that plasma pictures improve with age, but I think that it's your eyes that appreciate them more.

    As far as projectors go, I have trained myself viewing techniques that minimise the effects of the colour wheel. Move your eyes slowly across the screen, minimise sudden head movements. My wife has watched many movies with me on the Benq 6200, and she has never seen the rainbow effect.
     
  20. Spacecat

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    'As far as projectors go, I have trained myself viewing techniques that minimise the effects of the colour wheel'

    Is this a new martial art!!! :D


    Now grasshopper when you have trained in the ways of viewing techniques
    then you will be able to watch DLP.

    Imagine training your family to watch a projector!!!!!! :D
     
  21. markbingo

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    I had to do just that. Couldn't get a demo of the 700 anywhere because it was just too new to the market.

    Have not regretted my purchase though, it is a great machine.
    It's a bit scary to buy blind, but with the 700 you can be pretty sure you have minimilised what could go wrong with others. The reviews in the press and on this forum show that it is indeed a quality product, and at a great price too.

    Mark
     
  22. joffonon

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    Agreed, I bought the AE700 blind and I too haven't regretted it once. :D
     
  23. cyberheater

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    If I had the cash I might have gone for the AE700 myself but the BenQ 6100 is less then half the price but very similar performance in terms of blacks/contrast. It was a easy decision for me.

    I've seen quite a few threads on resolution recently and the general consensus is that for DVD viewing at normal viewing distances. The difference between SVGA/XGA/WXGA were not easily seen.

    Far more important where Blacks/Contrast and colour which the DLP machine excell on.

    I'm glad I swapped my 'home cinema' version panny AE200 for a business presentation machine. I can't believe you can get that level of performance from a 630 quid machine.

    Also, the AE200 was a great machine in it's time and has given many hours of enjoyment. But your right. Technology does move on. (Thank God).
     
  24. Pinco_Pallino

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    Thank you all for your comments.

    I know that some have trained themselves to view DLP. My viewing experience improved slightly after the first time I saw it, but my wife still had problems.

    Any hint on how it is to view old black and white movies on the panny ae700? I am planning to use component cable (I already bought it for the IF5700): is it ok? I also read that it might be better to switch off progressive scan. Finally, what would be the best (but affordable) manual pull-down screen for the panny?


    Pinco_Pallino
     
  25. Nick_UK

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    Oh you're so funny - remind me to laugh :p :boring:

    It doesn't matter what technology you have to display a picture, some smartass will always find something to criticise about it.
     
  26. GLADIATOR

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    Nick_UK

    Seems a bit of a shame that you have to train yourself not to see the rainbows. It would drive me nuts, when I put a movie on I just want to relax and chill out. I think there is too much emphasis on the battle between DLP and LCD. When I first went to buy a pj I was gutted I could see the rainbows and I knew given that I am very fussy I would never get used to them. I then viewed the HS50, and I was amazed how good it was it gave the H57 and Screenplay 5700 a run for their money. The blacks were fantastic great picture and I didn’t see any VB. I think the HS50 has just rewritten the rules, it is a shame there are only few demo machines around at the moment and many people haven’t seen it yet. But I bet it will win a fair few awards in 2005 when it starts to get reviewed. The great thing for all the DLP fans is that the HS50 is going to provide some serious competition for the 2K DLP market, I reckon it can only put downward pressure prices next year. So everyone is a winner!
     
  27. markbingo

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    I have only watched one B/W film on mine, and I was quite happy with it. All this talk about "blacks not as good on an LCD" is lost on me, in my experiance with both types I have found the Panny to be as good as the DLP I demo'd.
    I have mine connected direct via Componant leads (from the DVD) and s-video (from Sky+). Both work very well.

    As for the progressive scan, yes, some people (me included) find that the processing done by the PJ is better than the DVD player, so turn it off. BUT other people have found that it is better to have it turned on. Like a lot of things, your mix of kit is unlikely to be the same mix of kit as the next person, so when you have your new AE700, just try them both and go the route that works best for you. There does not seem to be a "right" or "wrong" way here.

    and finally.....

    I bought my Manual pull down screen from Ivojo. It is a GrandView, and it is superb. You would have no problems dealing with them either, very good company.

    :thumbsup:

    Mark
     
  28. Thunder

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    If you have the room of course (and a understanding partner), pick up an 8" CRT for under 2K like I did :) Good bye rainbows, noise, vertical banding, screen door, lack of contrast, poor lamp life, low resolution etc, etc, etc :D Hello natural colours, perfect blacks, 1150 lines of res, low noise, etc, etc :thumbsup:
     
  29. Nick_UK

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    It's OK being fussy, as long as you have a wallet to match :)

    Unfortunately, whatever the technology, there are problems. CRT TV's are fuzzy and they flicker, plasma TV's suffer from screen burn and dead pixels, LCD tv's suffer from dead pixels and poor contrast ratios. With projectors, one-chip DLP suffers from rainbows and pixel death, multi-chip DLP is really expensive and can suffer from colour registration problems, LCD has poor contrast and the technology is still young, and could deteriorate over time. CRT projectors are bulky, expensive, can suffer from colour registration problems and screen burn. I'm aware that these are generalisations, and some makes/models are better than others.

    However, it has to be a case of paying the money and taking your choice, but there is no perfect system.
     
  30. jwm15

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    Sorry, but you must not have viewed a DLP in quite a while. I defy anyone to find any LCD quieter than an H57.

    No one has mentioned the dust-on-chip issue with LCDs either... Just thought I'd add some petrol to the fire... :devil:
     

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