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Why isn't LCD a "WOW" picture experience?

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by Tenex, Jun 4, 2005.

  1. Tenex

    Tenex
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    Perhaps provocative but bear with me a moment!

    I have the Tevion 27" and playing around with it fed from a Toshiba 330 the picture is good, but I don't feel it's "Wow" quality. Now looking at the LCDs in stores whenever I'm taken with a display I think it's really down to the material being played and the terrific DTS etc track being blasted out.

    I've compared the Tevion to my Panasonic 100Hz 32" and really there isn't the difference that I would have expected. I'm prepared to be criticised for not having £1000 interconnects etc and for comments that there's better than the Tevion but I still don't think I'll ever get wowed by a DVD played back over LCD and I wonder if that's because I've used an LCD as my PC monitor for about 6 years or so. I think I'm used to it (the technology) and there isn't anything apart from size that will impress me - anyone else feel the same?

    I know there are lots of hugely enthusiastic LCD owners posting here but I wonder if they are hugely pleased with their LCD because it's a new technology to them (or better than the last they owned)?

    Now to deal with the "what can you expect you're not watching a Hyper-X model 50" " etc comments. I've struggled to get skin tones and detail displayed as I'd like from a variety of DVDs and began to despair it would be perfect ... then in desperation I threw in one of the SO's yoga DVDs.

    I kid you not the output was far far better. Skin tones etc were natural and colour across the spectrum was excellent. Far better than any blockbuster films I'd tried which leads me to question whether the problems we experience setting up any brand of LCD are really problems with the specific material*** playing back rather than inherent faults in any given LCD.

    We've all seen displays with finding Nemo of Monsters Inc playing and they look great but they are artificial in the sense they don't portray real lighting conditions (including film set lighting) which is a far more complicated thing to reproduce than any computer generated image.

    Oh well don't flame me I just thought it was an interesting topic to debate :devil:




    *** by way of example look at the first few minutes of McCool's - the colour is awful and you have to watch it to understand that it's quite deliberate because when Liv Tyler walks on they want to create and completely different image, in this case a much warmer image and alluring image of the heroine.
     
  2. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    I think you are right in most of what you say. The only things that my plasma excels over the previous CRT set are better geometry and focus, and lack of flicker. I know you have a 100Hz set, and you probably didn't see that last problem. As I've said at least a dozen times in these forums, each technology has its strong points, and if you could take the best bits out of each technology and combine them, we would be onto a winner, but alas we cannot.
     
  3. southpaw

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    I agree also.

    The biggest disappointment to me is the fact that they struggle with football!!!!

    Watch when the World cup starts all the ads for LCDs will have a pic of football on them!

    It'll be a massive ploy for people to buy "larger" "slimmer" tvs!
     
  4. nick501

    nick501
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    I was sort of 'forced' into buying and LCD purely for size reasons. I built a very small 'home cinema' (6.5 by 7.5 ft) and a crt tv would have looked silly and intrusive. I was able to fit the lcd into the wall and it 'looks' good.

    I agree fully that there isn't a 'wow' with the picture quality and infact overall I would say that the lcd is about 80% as good overall as my old cheap 28" 4:3 screen.

    funny that you mention finding nemo as a good on screen demo for lcd as I reckon thats the one film i have that shows up any 'motion blur' on my new toshiba 27wl56.

    what i'm saying is if size wasn't an issue I would have got an CRT, saved myself a good £300 *and* ended up with a better picture. !?

    ps still need to try the lcd in HD !
     
  5. busterdan

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    Hi Tenex...

    As you know I am a happy Tevion owner... however I have also been using TFT/LCD's for around 10 years on various laptops and more recently with my home PC... I have a Digimate 17" 1715 which is amazingly bright and pin sharp as a PC display.

    I also remember about 10 years ago seeing a 42" plasma in my local Allders store with a price tag of £11000!!....certainly got the wow factor from me then.... A few years later my company brought a couple for their training suites and it was then I started to notice a few shortcomings with the technology at that time.

    The point being that whilst many of the technologies are relatively new...(all this talk of High Definition and the like)...the idea of a CRT alternative in my home has been something I have contemplated for many years.

    So why now?.... well finally the price is acceptable to me and my budget and the technology is at a stage where I can make a jump at least a few stages on from what my Sharp 32" widescreen 50hz CRT was offering.

    As for the quality...well this is subjective but I think the Tevion does a very good job of showing how poor many TV sources whether it be Cable or Sat or Terrestrial actually are. But with DVD's I do feel the quality is head and shoulders above my Sharp CRT and as yet I have not tried Component cables with Progressive scan from my DVD player - which I expect to improve things further.

    And I have seen what the future holds and the Tevion does a very good job at showing me this.... if you haven't already wire up a resonable spec PC or laptop to the DVI port and watch some of those Hi Definition trailers... even if the PC display is unacceptable to you (the pixels on fonts seem blurry etc...) just play the Hi Def trailers full screen and you will start to get an idea of what lies just around the corner and your Tevion is ready for it.

    Luckily Aldi will refund your money... I doubt Dixons or Comet would have let you do that (worth bearing that in mind too) so if you are unimpressed do return it... as with all this stuff...in a month or two something bigger and better and for les will be available. It is a lot of money still....£750, so you have to be happy with it. Then again maybe you just extremely hard to please or are just overly fussy..... I know all about that too - I'm just the same mate!! :thumbsup:
     
  6. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    It's very easy to get used to the new technology. I've owned a 42" plasma for about six months now, and before that we had a Toshiba 28" WS set, which we still have. When I watch that now, it looks awful ! Horrible flickery picture, and terrible geometry and focus.
     
  7. sprint blue

    sprint blue
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    How close are sitting from it.

    I recently acquired a Tosh 32WL56 and am delighted with the picture. My last telly was a 21inch Sony Trinaton, which was a very good set, but the viewing experience from the Tosh is light years ahead.

    As with any TV, judging the PQ with your nose pressed against the screen is not a good idea. My screen is sitting about 9-10 feet away and it looks superb. :thumbsup:

    I recently had the pleasure of viewing HD in action at a local independent specialist. Can't remember the make of the TV but they were feeding it a HD signal from Germany, via Sky I assume, and the picture, even close up, was nothing short of sensational.

    Needless to say, I'm looking forward to Sky introducing HD broadcasting to the UK.
     
  8. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Don't hold your breath - it might only be one HD channel :)

    The demo you were watching was probably Euro1080 - nothing to do with Sky.
     
  9. paulfoley

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    I bought a 1280 X 720 LCD Projector about one & a half years ago, I use this with a 96" screen & so can see any picture problems quite clearly. I am both picky & a self confessed gadget freak. I have so far plugged in about 8 different devices. Here are my scores out of ten for picture quality :

    Sony Playstation via RGB Scart (interlaced) - 4
    Pioneer Laser Disc Player via RGB Scart (interlaced) - 5
    HP Laptop via VGA (1:1 via Powerstrip) - 7
    Denon 1910 via DVI (Upscaled 540/480 to 720P) - 8
    US Nintendo Gamecube via Component Kit (480 Progressive) - 8
    US Xbox via MS Component HD Kit (720 Progressive) - 9
    Shuttle PC plus Radeon 9800 via DVI (1:1 via powerstrip) - 9
    JVC Dtheatre DVHS Player via component (1080i) - 9.5 Stunning!

    So to summarise - Progressive signals work best & HD is effin amazing ! Be patient (or get the Credit Card out now) & you will soon see the WOW Factor !

    :smashin:
     
  10. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    LCD is definitely a "wow" experience for me. If you're watching analog TV though, I can imagine you'll be sorely disappointed.

    There is an element of truth in there though. I've never used the LCD you mention, so I can't comment on it.

    Did any of the Pioneer players support RGB? That's cool, I thought they were only Composite and S-Video.
     
  11. southpaw

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    All this talk about HD being amazing......as i'm new to HD would football in HD solve the issues that we currently have with football on LCDs??
     
  12. Tenex

    Tenex
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    It's always difficiult deciding what to write in a thread - mostly what to leave out rather than what to put in - so let me say first off that I am in no way massively unhappy with the Tevion or desirous of changing it. (Though 32" was a great temptation until I thought I'd get "tennis-neck" arthritis from swivelling my head left and right as I read a WP document ... ;) )

    For the record I bought it as a PC monitor that I'd also use to watch DVDs but I think it's going to see most "movie" usage playing back BitTorrent-derived TV shows! The quality of some of the HDTV torrents is astonishing played back on my Viewsonic 17" so I expect it to be even better on the Tevion!


    Nick_UK
    it would be a killer display wouldn't it? :)


    southpaw
    lucky for me I don't watch sport (well F1, but haven't tried that on the Tevion yet). You're spot on about the marketing though.


    nick501
    The slimness is a fabulous asset and I guess really high on the "reasons to buy scale" for all of us. With the price of real property as it is today that monster CRT is an expensive item in more ways than one! Oh and BTW I can't hand on heart say I've seen Nemo on a large LCD, it might have been a plasma. The only really large LCDs I've watched have been the new Sony Wega engine models showing Terminator or Star Wars from memory, all the others have ben plasma's.


    busterdan
    I agree absolutely on the price point. The speed with which John Lewis has gone from all CRT to all LCD TVs is very encouraging. Prices have tumbled significantly in the past year and will continue - like you I'm happy to jump in at this price point irrespective of how much cheaper it will be in 6 months time. Plus the fact I'd have spent the funds on something else by then ..... :D

    See the point above, I have no desire to test Aldi's return policies. Also I know that I can still increment the quality of the input to hopefully produce a better image (DVI cable etc).


    sprintblue
    I'm sure you were responding to Nick_UK but in case you weren't I've watched DVDs from 8-10' away.


    paulfoley
    Funny you should rate that Shuttle highly as I'll connect the second Shuttle via DVI to the Tevion when I get the time (well that's what I fool myself into believing). Won't have the 9800, well at least not yet, but they are getting very reasonable now. As stated above some of the HDTV torrents are stunning quality on the PC's Viewsonic (of course that could be interpretted as relative to the lower quality torrents I've used in the past ;) ) but genuinely they are terrific and I'm very grateful to the guys who make them available 6 months before they hit UK TV.


    Lyris
    Haven't watched ANY live TV through it - not even connected to Freeview.


    Phew, I didn't get flamed ;) Good to know I'm not the only one though. I'm sure we're all gadget freaks at heart ....
     
  13. paulfoley

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    The main reason I scored this so highly is because a kind gentleman on this forum sent me a single file (absoutely massive I may add) called Mantis.AVI. This is a sublime 45 minute wildlife show about the Praying Mantis taken from a US TV Channel called Discovery HD. Every person who I have shown this to has had to physically stop their jaw crashing onto the floor! You may have seen the expression "Its like looking out of a window", well its satellite shows & DVHS films like this that have given birth to this saying & its why HD LCD's were made. Its just such a shame that most of us have to wait so long to show them at their full potential.

    :rolleyes:
     
  14. Taz69

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    I get the "WOW" feeling whenever I play hi-def stuff I have grabbed from the net on my Tevion 27", I even enjoy watching live footie fed from Sky thru my Tosh RDXS32 then thru Component into the LCD, its great, I get no blurry ball, the only thing you see wrong is sometimes on the camera pans the advertising boards tend to blur, but I have never seen it on a match, players or ball, maybe I am lucky or cant see, lol, and today I had Sky+ Pace V1 box fitted and the piccie thru scart looks amazing, clear, colours are right etc, loads better than it was on my old panny sky box thru scart, not tried sky+ thru the tosh yet.

    Taz
     
  15. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    I get the "WOW" when I watch DVDs - particularly really well-mastered animated ones - with high saturation. On all the CRTs I ever owned, they just looked garish and hurt my eyes because of the combination of the flicker and the bright colours. But on my LCD, they're a joy to watch.
     
  16. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    I get the "WOW" when I watch DVDs - particularly really well-mastered animated ones - with high saturation. On all the CRTs I ever owned, they just looked garish and hurt my eyes because of the combination of the flicker and the bright colours. But on my LCD, they're a joy to watch.
     
  17. Tenex

    Tenex
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    Yes but I made that point above - it's got to be fairly easy to master animations with wonderful colour etc (I quoted a couple as an example) but most of the time we're watching very different material.
     
  18. busterdan

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    Paul I would love to see that... is ther anyway I could grab a copy?...is it hosted anywhere...or if I send you a blank DVD with prepaid envelope could you send me it that way?

    Cheers
     
  19. busterdan

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    ...gonna see what I can find on BitTorrent to in the meantime :)
     
  20. Tenex

    Tenex
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    I've looked on all torrents it doesn't seem to be around. I/you could upload it if we get it?

    actually, someone is bound to have I'll put a request out.
     
  21. busterdan

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    Yeah seen quite a few references to it...a few chinese sites but no links :(
     
  22. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    That's true. What kind of animation did you mean - if you mean 3D stuff like Finding Nemo, I don't watch as much of that. Sadly the R1 and R2 versions of that particular film have some nasty compression problems. Back to your original point though, animated stuff (especially good old 2D) will do a good job of hiding the deficencies of the current DVD spec.

    My main problem with live action films on DVD is that they're over-filtered, to stop them flickering on an Interlaced TV. That just removes detail and causes unsightly blurring or us Progressive people. My brother reviews for DVD Times - you might want to take a look at a page on his web site that shows the select few DVDs (mostly live action ones) that he's rated 10/10.

    http://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/misc-halloffame.html (look especially at the facial detail in "Blade" and "The Rock")
     
  23. paulfoley

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    Sorry no burner & believe me it wont make a good email attachment ! I'm sure it will be on the torrents, I think thats where my contact found it.

    Good luck !
     
  24. drfelch

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    The only REAL amazing WOW HD sample I downloaded for my Hitachi 32" was the HDTV_demo.tp file from here :

    http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=6537

    Its about 68Mb and looks better than any HD content that I have seen. I dont know why though. Maybe its because it was recorded on some kind of hidef cam or something. Its a 'TP' extension file (I dont know what this is), but it seems to be incredibly clear. I downloaded other TS files and the WMV samples but although they are good, I certainly wouldnt say they are 'immensely better than DVD'.

    I tried downloading quite a bit of content from the hdtv newsgroup (mostly captured from the TV), but its always looked 'distinctly average'.

    Other good 'show off to your mates' demos are :

    Robotica 720p : http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/contentshowcase.aspx

    and the Madagascar demo from the divx site (www.divx.com/hd) which even nearly plays fine on a chipped xbox with a 733mhz processor !
     

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