why is there so much hatred for Corbyn?

Bit hard to see how a maximum of 59 Scottish MPs could outsway 533 England MPs (and 40 Wales MPs) unless England (and Wales) has also voted Labour.

In 64 Labour only had a majority due to its Scottish MPs - in the rest of the UK the Tories were the largest Party.

Same in 74.
 
So, do you like being part of the UK or not?
I voted against independence when it would have meant Scotland leaving the EU
I would vote for independence if it meant Scotland could rejoin the EU.

In that situation I would hedge my bets and hold dual passports; Scotland and UK, just as UK citizens of Irish descent can hold Irish and UK passports. In 2017/18 321K Irish passports were applied for from UK citizens wishing to keep EU citizenship. More than 158,000 UK applications for Irish passports this year

Do you like there being a UK or not...
 
So, do you like being part of the UK or not?

Haha

I'm not asking you about being in the EU, I'm asking you if you like being part of the UK?
 
Do I like there being a UK?

Hmm? Genuinely not really thought about it, I don't feel it effects me one way or another.

I do however think it would be a shame if it split, but get the impression that many Scots, Welsh and certainly N. Irish don't like being attached to England.

I guess it is like many parts of England don't like the fact that the rules are set by London and often suit London more than anyone else, it must feel even more like that being a different country.
 
I've never voted for only one party. I don't particularly respect the as a lifelong Tory/Labour voter (it's never any other party) line I sometimes read here. Have no time for 'grassroots' politics, they're just dogmatic weirdos, essentially cults.
Couldn't agree more. I find the idea of party over politics bizarre.

I guess it is like many parts of England don't like the fact that the rules are set by London and often suit London more than anyone else, it must feel even more like that being a different country.
I'm sure once this Brexit malarkey dies down and people's minds are no longer preoccupied by the EU, that status quo will return. Right now everyone is too distracted to think about that.
 
So, do you like being part of the UK or not?

Haha

I'm not asking you about being in the EU, I'm asking you if you like being part of the UK?
My reply answered that.
Look at the venn diagram of (Scotland as part of) UK in the EU, (Scotland as part of) UK not in the EU and Scotland not part of the UK but in the EU. Two of the circles place Scotland in the EU, one doesn't.

venn.jpg
 
Do Labour consider the self-employed the 'top 5%'?

 
So you want your cake and eat it. If Scotland get their independence you either get a Scottish passport or UK one not both.
 
Do Labour consider the self-employed the 'top 5%'?


Would that be an article written by a Conservative party member? Oh it is, ok.
 
What did they get wrong?
The article dealt only with the position of one man limited companies. How many self employed operate through one man limited companies vs as sole trader?
According to the government, in 2018, almost 60% of British businesses were sole traders, that's about 3.4m businesses out of a total of 5.6m. Sole traders - often alternatively called the "self-employed"
13 things you should know about being a sole trader

I haven't so far found the current number of one man limited companies but in 2012 it was around 500,000.

For one man limited companies rather than just paying the self employed stamp they would have to pay both employers and employees NI contributions. I've done both and was much better off as sole trader self employed as my personal tax was at lower rate. Expenses were also much more favourable for sole trader vs one man limited company.

Only benefit would be if they were taking a large part of their 'pay' as dividends. But even then the 7.5% dividend rate would seem to be eclipsed by the employers NI rate of 13.8% unless they were on higher incomes which would place them in the top 5% (>£70K).

Only those on higher rate tax would thus benefit as dividends then are taxed at 32.5% vs the 40% if taking the money as income. And the corporation tax rate of 19% vs personal tax rate of 40%.

Taking all that, unless in the top 5% it would seem better under Labour changes to cease operation as a one man limited company and operate as sole trader. Tax increases would then be much less than shown in the article for those below £80K.

Those most affected would seem to be those operating under PSC contracts which HMRC under the Conservatives are already cracking down on with IR35
HMRC wins IR35 case against three BBC presenters - Reaction
and which in 2020 under the Conservatives would be extended to private sector vs just public sector.
Contractors dismayed at higher tax bill
 
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What did they get wrong?

I can't seem to find any legitimate sources to what is being claimed in the article. Also it should be made clear that the article is written by a member of the Conservative party, for transparency reasons.
 
How many self employed operate through limited companies? Rather than just paying the self employed stamp they would have to pay both employers and employees NI contributions. I've done both and was much better off as self employed as my personal tax was at lower rate. Expenses were also much more favourable for sole trader vs one man limited company.

Only benefit would be if they were taking a large part of their 'pay' as dividends. But even then the 7.5% dividend rate would seem to be eclipsed by the employers NI rate of 13.8% unless they were on higher incomes which would place them in the top 5% (>£70K).

Only those on higher rate tax would thus benefit as dividends then are taxed at 32.5% vs the 40% if taking the money as income. And the corporation tax rate of 19% vs personal tax rate of 40%.

Taking all that, unless in the top 5% it would seem better under Labour changes to cease operation as a one man limited company and operate as sole trader. Tax increases would then be much less than shown in the article for those below £80K
Sounds to me you are actively advocating a tax avoidance strategy. Under the rules of HMRC that would actually become evasion if the sole purpose is to avoid paying tax.

In principle you are right and I agree; where there is a will there will be a way to avoid it. But that doesn't change the fact that those on less than £80K will be affected.
 
Sounds to me you are actively advocating a tax avoidance strategy. Under the rules of HMRC that would actually become evasion if the sole purpose is to avoid paying tax.

In principle you are right and I agree; where there is a will there will be a way to avoid it. But that doesn't change the fact that those on less than £80K will be affected.
Exactly, which is not what McDonnell and Labour are saying. Of course, it wouldn't just affect small businesses anyway. We'd all be paying for Labour's tax hikes, and at a time when the tax burden is the highest it has been for 50 years. Taxes need to come down, not go up.
 
I can't seem to find any legitimate sources to what is being claimed in the article. Also it should be made clear that the article is written by a member of the Conservative party, for transparency reasons.
Surely you've got to be joking? Or are you openly admitting that you haven't read the Labour manifesto?

Quick remarkable, but not that surprising to be honest.
 
Sounds to me you are actively advocating a tax avoidance strategy. Under the rules of HMRC that would actually become evasion if the sole purpose is to avoid paying tax.
Tell that to the accountants...
I'm not advocating anything, merely noteing the current situation.
In principle you are right and I agree; where there is a will there will be a way to avoid it. But that doesn't change the fact that those on less than £80K will be affected.
Only if they choose to operate as one man limited companies to minimise their tax and take their income as dividends from the company they own (to minimise their tax).
Self employed Sole Traders are not affected by these changes which are intended to equalise tax from dividends and tax from income.
 
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Why do you use words such as trolling?
I was just catching up on the thread and that was one of the posts, so I replied to it.

I can see what you do on here, everyone can see what you do on here. You carry on mate.
By using words like troll, racist, misogynist you think you will get people in trouble.
All you are doing is reinforcing the stereotype.

I'm not trying to get anyone into trouble, but i've always found if you don't like getting called out for posting like a racist or a misogynist don't post like a racist or a misogynisy, it's simple really

And which stereotype is that?
 
I'm not trying to get anyone into trouble, but i've always found if you don't like getting called out for posting like a racist or a misogynist don't post like a racist or a misogynisy, it's simple really

And which stereotype is that?


You're not calling me out though are you, you are throwing accusations around.
You are quoting half a sentence to fit your agenda.

Carry on for all I care, the more you do it the more obvious it becomes.
 
Exactly, which is not what McDonnell and Labour are saying. Of course, it wouldn't just affect small businesses anyway. We'd all be paying for Labour's tax hikes, and at a time when the tax burden is the highest it has been for 50 years. Taxes need to come down, not go up.
Highest in 50 years? I was paying basic rate tax at 29% in 1986 vs the current 20%. I'm sure that was less than 50 years ago.

Tax burden is actually overall tax taken.
The tax burden will hover at around 34.6 per cent until 2023-24, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), higher than under the last Labour government, when it hit 33.7 per cent at most.

Much of the increase in taxes is driven by surging employment, with 3.5m more people in work since the Conservatives came to power in coalition in 2010.

Tax burden at highest level for 50 years

The lowest tax burden in the last 50 years was under Labour in 2009. The change from then to now is +2.3%

taxburden.jpg
 
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My reply answered that.
Look at the venn diagram of (Scotland as part of) UK in the EU, (Scotland as part of) UK not in the EU and Scotland not part of the UK but in the EU. Two of the circles place Scotland in the EU, one doesn't.

View attachment 1230404


Last try.

Forget the EU. Forget Brexit.

Do you like being part of the the UK?

Are you proud to be British?
 
The lowest tax burden in the last 50 years was under Labour in 1995. The change from then to now is +0.9%

John Major was PM in 1995. Now I know he was too far to the left, but he wasn't Labour.
 
You're not calling me out though are you, you are throwing accusations around.
You are quoting half a sentence to fit your agenda.

Carry on for all I care, the more you do it the more obvious it becomes.

I considered what you posted to be misogynistic so i called it out as such end of

If you really don't care stop harping on about it like a broken record
 
I considered what you posted to be misogynistic so i called it out as such end of

If you really don't care stop harping on about it like a broken record

Stop banging on about it like a broken record? Are you quote the SNP and independence?
 
Bit hard to see how a maximum of 59 Scottish MPs could outsway 533 England MPs (and 40 Wales MPs) unless England (and Wales) has also voted Labour.

The situation in Scotland was at one time there were no Conservative MPs and many elections where the Conservatives gained just one MP. There has never been a time when England has never had Labour MPs (ignoring when they weren't in existence).

Just do the maths.

Half of 533 is 266.5, so for example Labour in England get 260, Conservative 273. Add Scotland's 59 for Labour, and there you are, even assuming predominantly Labour (28 in last parliament) is 50/50.

England can vote Conservative, but get a Labour government.
 

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