why is there so much hatred for Corbyn?

IronGiant

Moderator
The ones that use English and not infantile taunts that grown ups have to look up in an Urban slang dictionary?
 

PatMrex

Active Member
OK, not hatred, but:

For me Corbyn is an old idealistic fool.

  • A history of supporting undesirables, IRA, Hezbollha & even Russia
  • Anti-Israel (no idea if anti-Jew but doubt it, he's not racist IMO)
  • Can't seem to make a decision
  • No charisma, poor public image
  • Wants to unilaterally get rid of our nuclear deterrent (this alone is a no-no for me)
  • Wants strong Unions to hold country to ransom again as per 70's
  • Doesn't understand that if you tax wealthy too much they will just leave & take their business & job creation activities with them. Needs to be done world over and no chance.
I do like the idea of nationalising Water & Energy industry infrastructure but operated by private, none profit companies. Don't want to go back to state employees in large numbers able to hold country to ransom with wages, terms & conditions etc.

When Ed Miliband stabbed his brother Dave Miliband in the back by getting unions & members to back him (not elected MP's) he then changed labour voting system in their favour to give more power to Unions/Membership and away from the elected MP's.

When MP's wanted to get rid of Corbyn they couldn't because the militant Momentum membership & Unions now had more power to block what the elected MP's wanted which is why he is still here even though he as nearly the lowest rating of any potential leader.

From the electorate (my) perspective it is the MP's that should have the main power over selecting the Labour leadership. They are the ones we can vote in & out. Any idiot with extreme views can pay their few quid to join the Labour Party diluting the sensible membership and the Union leaders that hold large sway are normally just the biggest gobsh*te that has worked his way through the union representing a membership that just pays their weekly/monthly fee with little interest who heads it (from my experience in industry in Big Lens union).

So, Labour has some serious issues that even getting rid of team Corbyn might not solve while Momentum has their claws into the running of it. (was Militant in 70's & 80's)

I've voted Labour more than any party in my life but I couldn't vote for them now. When my 80 yo mother who must have been born with a red stripe through her spine and has blindly voted labour all her life isn't voting Labour that says it all really. I live in Miners & steelworkers backyard in South Yorkshire and have never heard as many Labour supporters looking at alternatives to voting Labour.

They should get money and lobbying out of politics, with recognised/approved parties funded by taxation. We could then have a Labour type party not controlled by Unions & a Conservative type party not controlled by big money/corporations.
Good post.

I would add, from a personal view point that I don't like the indulgence of Corbyn's identity politics and feel he's also a bit of a self-loathing white male indoctrinated in something like the Frankfurt School's critical theory. A slippery slope that almost inevitably disenfranchises the broader political views.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
I can't stand Corbyn, mainly because of his cunning ability to be so inconsistent and how he is being presented.

Just look at the train incident, good point but totally wrongly executed and instead of being honest and holding up his hand that they got that wrong he argues against it.

He's got a thing for the 'underdog', nothing wrong with that in principle. But he seems to refuse to listen to the other side and look at the big picture. Really not good.

And the culture regarding anti-semitism that flourished under his week leadership really takes the biscuit. Labour has always been on the edge with it and mixing up criticism against Israel (absolutely fine) with anti-semitic behaviour (absolutely not fine), but on his watch that has become seriously bad. Likely in combination with that underdog syndrome and the inability to look at the big picture.

But most of all, he is simply useless at his job. The party is in opposition, the Government is the weakest any opposition party has faced in recent times for a very long period now. And still, he is not providing a good constructive opposition, nor is gaining any inroad to a majority. That is seriously bad for the country as a whole.

The jealousy thing in going after those who are independent are what are country depends on is just pathetic.
 

FireCrackerJim

Suspended
The ones that use English and not infantile taunts that grown ups have to look up in an Urban slang dictionary?
Ah I shall start posting idiot memes about right wing politicians and slag them off and get my political news from Jonathan pie and then I will be a grown up

Cheers
 

Steve_B

Well-known Member
Hate is rather a strong word - Personally I pity the poor man - he is from my view point simply a mascot of Labour, John McDonald and the unions run the party.I am sure if Labour where in power you would quickly see Jezza removed and Mr McDonald instated.

Some of Labours ideas would be acceptable if far more moderate - but with their current lurch to the far left - communist/ultra socialist agenda how will it actually work. Suggested bans on private jets and on being a billionaire - really...

As with many communist states they are run by a dictator - they tell the people their conditions are for the good of all but live in the lap of luxury them self.

Also does a high tax economy really garner more than a low tax?

Possibly initially but they will find those who have amassed wealth can easily afford to move or hide it.
Not sure the Robin Hood approach of simply snatching would be legal or ethical... but then some would argue the likes of Amazon, Google are not ethical in the way they act either...

Once the HNWI's have gone the burden will then start to fall further down the chain and onto those who simply make a living - as they make enough to be taxed but not enough to move it elsewhere. With the individuals who had no intention of making a living potentially benefiting more greatly...

The mindset then may spiral to a point where the person on the street starts to feel "why work, we get more by not"...

Then who is paying the high tax?

Is little "high tax" more agreeable than moderate "low tax"... Hong Kong thrives on an even lower tax economy than the UK as far I understand it...as everyone pays it - there is less impetus to avoid paying it... this in theory should equal a more stable tax revenue.
 

gamerste

Active Member
Primark Lenin is a joke and, as a labour member, I'd never consider voting Labour again. Unless Tumnus buggers off back to Narnia.

The whole anti-Semitism is racisim-lite is disgusting.
0.06% of the membership has been reported as being anti-Semitic I'm not condoning it far from it.
But a bit of perspective is needed with the whole anti semitism affair.
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
0.06% of the membership has been reported as being anti-Semitic I'm not condoning it far from it.
But a bit of perspective is needed with the whole anti semitism affair.
Perspective is how the Labour leadership has dealt with those reported and those that have reported them. Just saying.
 

domtheone

Distinguished Member
Is little "high tax" more agreeable than moderate "low tax"... Hong Kong thrives on an even lower tax economy than the UK as far I understand it...as everyone pays it - there is less impetus to avoid paying it... this in theory should equal a more stable tax revenue.
^^^^
This. Is what we should be moving our tax system towards.

I really don't think any left winger (certainly not Corby or McD) gets the above at all though.

Most are too full of hatred and jealousy of the rich.
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
^^^^
This. Is what we should be moving our tax system towards.

I really don't think any left winger (certainly not Corby or McD) gets the above at all though.

Most are too full of hatred and jealousy of the rich.
For myself they are now little more than a protest uni movement more than the opposition party they should be .
 

Ste7en

Distinguished Member
0.06% of the membership has been reported as being anti-Semitic I'm not condoning it far from it.
But a bit of perspective is needed with the whole anti semitism affair.
Wow. I thought it was rife. You'd think so according to the press. But if only 0.06% have been reported...
 

gamerste

Active Member
Wow. I thought it was rife. You'd think so according to the press. But if only 0.06% have been reported...
More have been reported iirc.
People have an issue rightly or wrongly with the criticism of the state of Israel.
Some believe that to be antisemetic others believe that criticism of Israel for the way it handles it's foreign policy is justified.


I long to live in a world where when I watch or read the news, it's not all people dying here there and everywhere.
Crisis all over the world especially in the middle east.
Is it to much to ask for people just to get along with each other.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
More have been reported iirc.
People have an issue rightly or wrongly with the criticism of the state of Israel.
Some believe that to be antisemetic others believe that criticism of Israel for the way it handles it's foreign policy is justified.


I long to live in a world where when I watch or read the news, it's not all people dying here there and everywhere.
Crisis all over the world especially in the middle east.
Is it to much to ask for people just to get along with each other.
There is absolutely no issue with critiquing Israel. Not when it’s done in a non anti Semitic manner. Please don’t that conflating and deflecting. Interestingly doing that can make it anti Semitic again ;)

If you can’t see that the problem is with the leadership and their inaction and just talk down the issue, than you are exactly part of the problem.

for example, why did Labour find it necessary to play silly little games like not adhering to the internationally accepted definition of what anti semitische is? It’s the entirety of their behaviour that was and continues to be appalling.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
There is absolutely no issue with critiquing Israel. Not when it’s done in a non anti Semitic manner. Please don’t that conflating and deflecting. Interestingly doing that can make it anti Semitic again ;)

If you can’t see that the problem is with the leadership and their inaction and just talk down the issue, than you are exactly part of the problem.

for example, why did Labour find it necessary to play silly little games like not adhering to the internationally accepted definition of what anti semitische is? It’s the entirety of their behaviour that was and continues to be appalling.
The 'internationally accepted definition' you refer to is part of a misinformation narrative. Basically it is not internationally accepted...

In mid-July, an unprecedented joint statement signed by more than 40 Jewish organisations around the world (including seven in the UK) was published critiquing the IHRA definition.
  • although the IHRA is an international body with representatives from 31 countries, only six of those countries have, to date, formally adopted the definition themselves
  • In spite of a call for local authorities to adopt the definition by the UK’s central government in early 2017, less than a third of councils have responded and several of those have chosen not to include any of the controversial examples contained within the working definition
  • Several high-profile bodies have rejected or distanced themselves from the working definition, including the EU’s Fundamental Rights Agency (a successor to the body that drafted the original wording on which the definition is based) and academic institutions including the London School of Economics and the School of Oriental and African Studies.
  • Mainstream academic and legal opinion has been overwhelmingly critical of the IHRA definition, including formal opinions produced by three senior UK barristersand one former appeals court judge
What has happened though is that the media has distorted and misreported Labour especially in relation to the 'universally' and 'global' adoption of the IHRA defintion. The MRC found 27 examples of misleading and 28 examples of inaccurate reporting made in regard to the IHRA definition.

The Media Reform Coalition has conducted in-depth research on the controversy surrounding antisemitism in the Labour Party, focusing on media coverage of the crisis during the summer of 2018. Following extensive case study research, we identified myriad inaccuracies and distortions in online and television news including marked skews in sourcing, omission of essential context or right of reply, misquotation, and false assertions made either by journalists themselves or sources whose contentious claims were neither challenged nor countered. Overall, our findings were consistent with a disinformation paradigm.
https://www.mediareform.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Labour-antisemitism-and-the-news-FINAL-CORRECTED.pdf

....we can say with some certainty that there have been prevalent errors, omissions and skews in the mainstream coverage. This was no anomaly: almost all of the problems observed in both the framing and sourcing of stories were in favour of a particular recurrent narrative: that the Labour Party has been or is being lost to extremists, racists and the ‘hard left’.
New MRC research finds inaccuracies and distortions in media coverage of antisemitism and the Labour Party - Media Reform Coalition
 
Last edited:

Greg Hook

Moderator & Reviewer
Like others, I wouldn't say I hate Corbyn. I'm sure he is a nice guy.
I just don't want him as the leader of the Labour party.

He has taken the Labour party from a close main opposition party to one that could even drop down to become only the third biggest party.

He has done absolutely nothing to combat antisemitism that is rife in the party.
The Labour policies on so many issues are complete nonsense.
Momentum are a terrible group and need dumping.
He is unable to make a decision on Brexit which will cost Labour a lot of votes.

One good thing is that when Labour lose heavily in the December election, Corbyn will have no choice but to go. Whether he wants to or not.

By the way, I was a life long Labour voter, so this isn't the words of a Tory just bashing Corbyn again.
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
Like others, I wouldn't say I hate Corbyn. I'm sure he is a nice guy.
I just don't want him as the leader of the Labour party.

He has taken the Labour party from a close main opposition party to one that could even drop down to become only the third biggest party.

He has done absolutely nothing to combat antisemitism that is rife in the party.
The Labour policies on so many issues are complete nonsense.
Momentum are a terrible group and need dumping.
He is unable to make a decision on Brexit which will cost Labour a lot of votes.

One good thing is that when Labour lose heavily in the December election, Corbyn will have no choice but to go. Whether he wants to or not.

By the way, I was a life long Labour voter, so this isn't the words of a Tory just bashing Corbyn again.
This is an example of Momentum labour. Kevin has represented my ward for a couple decades now and seat has always had a local MP to represent but now parachute Corbynistas into place.

 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
The 'internationally accepted definition' you refer to is part of a misinformation narrative. Basically it is not internationally accepted...

In mid-July, an unprecedented joint statement signed by more than 40 Jewish organisations around the world (including seven in the UK) was published critiquing the IHRA definition.
  • although the IHRA is an international body with representatives from 31 countries, only six of those countries have, to date, formally adopted the definition themselves
  • In spite of a call for local authorities to adopt the definition by the UK’s central government in early 2017, less than a third of councils have responded and several of those have chosen not to include any of the controversial examples contained within the working definition
  • Several high-profile bodies have rejected or distanced themselves from the working definition, including the EU’s Fundamental Rights Agency (a successor to the body that drafted the original wording on which the definition is based) and academic institutions including the London School of Economics and the School of Oriental and African Studies.
  • Mainstream academic and legal opinion has been overwhelmingly critical of the IHRA definition, including formal opinions produced by three senior UK barristersand one former appeals court judge
What has happened though is that the media has distorted and misreported Labour especially in relation to the 'universally' and 'global' adoption of the IHRA defintion. The MRC found 27 examples of misleading and 28 examples of inaccurate reporting made in regard to the IHRA definition.

The Media Reform Coalition has conducted in-depth research on the controversy surrounding antisemitism in the Labour Party, focusing on media coverage of the crisis during the summer of 2018. Following extensive case study research, we identified myriad inaccuracies and distortions in online and television news including marked skews in sourcing, omission of essential context or right of reply, misquotation, and false assertions made either by journalists themselves or sources whose contentious claims were neither challenged nor countered. Overall, our findings were consistent with a disinformation paradigm.
https://www.mediareform.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Labour-antisemitism-and-the-news-FINAL-CORRECTED.pdf

....we can say with some certainty that there have been prevalent errors, omissions and skews in the mainstream coverage. This was no anomaly: almost all of the problems observed in both the framing and sourcing of stories were in favour of a particular recurrent narrative: that the Labour Party has been or is being lost to extremists, racists and the ‘hard left’.
New MRC research finds inaccuracies and distortions in media coverage of antisemitism and the Labour Party - Media Reform Coalition
Yet they have now accepted it. The fact that they made an issue where there should be no issue is one of the signed. It really doesn’t have to be so hard.

Furthermore If they dealt swiftly and decisive with the issues raised in the party that part wouldn’t have become such an issue.
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
Looks like Dianne Abbott has cracked Labours antisemitism problem.. :laugh:

Nick Robinson: Do you accept you haven’t done enough (to resolve the problem of anti-Semitism)?

Diane Abbott: ‘…it’s not every element of the Jewish community that believes Jeremy is an anti-Semite.’

NR: ‘Well every major Jewish newspaper says it, every major Jewish representative body says it.’

DA: ‘Yeah, well, the Hasidic community in Stamford Hill doesn’t say that…’
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
And I rest my case. It is still so ingrained in their behaviour. Labour for the many but not for the Jew.
 

Liquid101

Distinguished Member
One good thing is that when Labour lose heavily in the December election, Corbyn will have no choice but to go. Whether he wants to or not.
It's a difficult one.

You could argue that the best case scenario is that Labour lose, but not heavily and Corbyn stands down. Boris uses his small majority to deliver his flavour of the withdrawal agreement.

Labour rebuilds, then manages to win another election before the trade agreement is signed off, allowing us to sign up to a labour inspired free trade agreement with Freedom of Movement :smashin:
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
Yet they have now accepted it. The fact that they made an issue where there should be no issue is one of the signed. It really doesn’t have to be so hard.
Labour adopted the IHRA definition in 2016. It was the four examples given along with IHRA which it ammended/changed. It has now adopted the full examples list.

However the Conservatives at the same period of time had not even adopted the IHRA definition.
Labour’s rulebook makes three references to antisemitism, whereas the Conservative code of conduct from December 2017 does not use the word once. But as it stands, we’ve yet to see any documents that make explicit reference to antisemitism or the IHRA definition of antisemitism. The Conservative party code of conduct does not expressly mention antisemitism once – let alone define it.
FactCheck: Conservative party rulebook doesn’t mention antisemitism

In July, we reported that the Conservative rulebook didn’t use the term antisemitism, despite Theresa May’s assertion that the party had adopted the IHRA definition. Just hours after we published our article, the Conservative party webpage seemed to have been quietly updated to include a mention of the IHRA that wasn’t there before.

FactCheck: Labour rulebook doesn’t mention IHRA antisemitism definition or examples

Furthermore If they dealt swiftly and decisive with the issues raised in the party that part wouldn’t have become such an issue.
It became an issue because the media wanted it to become an issue. The media didn't report the IHRA definitions situation with the Conservative Party in the same way and also downplayed the Conservative Party's Islamophobia Islamophobia in the UK Conservative Party (1997–present) - Wikipedia


 

psikey

Distinguished Member
Labour rebuilds, then manages to win another election before the trade agreement is signed off, allowing us to sign up to a labour inspired free trade agreement with Freedom of Movement :smashin:
Labour won't rebuild into anything electable unless Lansman/Momentum get their claws out of the Labour Executive.
 

clydebest

Distinguished Member
Hate is too strong a word..but while at the helm he has made Labour un- electable... his Nationalise this that and everything is a throw back to a policy that were rejected in the 70's by the Electorate .. which lead to decades of Tory rule. I could go on forever on what is wrong about a Labour party lead by Corbyn..

But the single biggest fact for my dislike of him .. from 1979-2017 i had voted Labour at a General Election .. but in 2017 i voted Liberal to my shame.. and with him and his like still there, will more than likely do so again.. thinking about it maybe hate is indeed not too strong. :mad: .
x
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
Labour adopted the IHRA definition in 2016. It was the four examples given along with IHRA which it ammended/changed. It has now adopted the full examples list.

However the Conservatives at the same period of time had not even adopted the IHRA definition.
Labour’s rulebook makes three references to antisemitism, whereas the Conservative code of conduct from December 2017 does not use the word once. But as it stands, we’ve yet to see any documents that make explicit reference to antisemitism or the IHRA definition of antisemitism. The Conservative party code of conduct does not expressly mention antisemitism once – let alone define it.
FactCheck: Conservative party rulebook doesn’t mention antisemitism

In July, we reported that the Conservative rulebook didn’t use the term antisemitism, despite Theresa May’s assertion that the party had adopted the IHRA definition. Just hours after we published our article, the Conservative party webpage seemed to have been quietly updated to include a mention of the IHRA that wasn’t there before.

FactCheck: Labour rulebook doesn’t mention IHRA antisemitism definition or examples


It became an issue because the media wanted it to become an issue. The media didn't report the IHRA definitions situation with the Conservative Party in the same way and also downplayed the Conservative Party's Islamophobia Islamophobia in the UK Conservative Party (1997–present) - Wikipedia


As I said, If they acted decisively and with immediacy on the issues in the Labour Party it would not have had to be a problem. But they didn’t and they don’t.
 

Steve_B

Well-known Member
The idea they are capable of re-nationalising anything they wish simply by raising taxes is hilarious.

When the incumbents propose to provide additional funding - they shout this will cost a million/billions and has not been fully costed and will somehow only benefit the rich.

... but can find the multi hundred billions to re-nationalise....hmmm

... ah of course I missed the bit the rich and enterprise will pay via their taxes...

***Stop Press*** - Dianne Abbott has just returned from the magical money tree on Momentums' trusty sugar coated unicorn. (having one is permitted and acceptable for those in a position of "helping the "people")
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member

maddy

Well-known Member
The hard left aren't going to give up their grip on the Labour party regardless of this election. They've been working on getting into this position for 30 years, since the days of Militant.

Those Labour MPs who see themselves as moderates are going to need to find a new political home.
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
Hate is too strong a word..but while at the helm he has made Labour un- electable... his Nationalise this that and everything is a throw back to a policy that were rejected in the 70's by the Electorate .. which lead to decades of Tory rule. I could go on forever on what is wrong about a Labour party lead by Corbyn..

But the single biggest fact for my dislike of him .. from 1979-2017 i had voted Labour at a General Election .. but in 2017 i voted Liberal to my shame.. and with him and his like still there, will more than likely do so again.. thinking about it maybe hate is indeed not too strong. :mad: .
x
No comment on your post but I love your username - brings back many happy memories of watching the great man from the North Bank. :smashin:
 

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