Why is input lag still not taken seriously by TV manufacturers?

NoLifeDGenerate

Standard Member
This has been possible for over a decade already. Sony has officially supported internal drive upgrades for every PS3 and PS4 model ever released. I upgraded my PS3 Slim (320GB) to 1TB, and both my PS4 (500GB) and PS4 Pro (1TB) to 2TB.

Changing the drive on a PS4 is literally the easiest hardware upgrade I've ever done; it takes less than five minutes.

That said, using an SSD in a PS4 doesn't seem to offer the kind of performance improvements that one might expect or hope for.

Right. I have an SSD in my PS4 Pro. Hitman on there doesn't load much better than on my 2TB Xbox One in spite of the SSD and PS4 Pro having SATA3. With that game, it could be partly due to the constant, unnecessary server connections, but whatever. Microsoft backtracked this gen by not allowing easy HDD swapping though, which is going to suck when the XB1 X launches in the few ones with 1TB instead of 2.
 

BAMozzy

Distinguished Member
Right. I have an SSD in my PS4 Pro. Hitman on there doesn't load much better than on my 2TB Xbox One in spite of the SSD and PS4 Pro having SATA3. With that game, it could be partly due to the constant, unnecessary server connections, but whatever. Microsoft backtracked this gen by not allowing easy HDD swapping though, which is going to suck when the XB1 X launches in the few ones with 1TB instead of 2.

Just transfer everything to an external - then just plug that in to the 'X' and all games are transferred... Simple!
 

NoLifeDGenerate

Standard Member
Just transfer everything to an external - then just plug that in to the 'X' and all games are transferred... Simple!

fudge externals. I don't have space for drives that should be in the damn console. Also, I'm not transferring sh*t. I fully intend to run both consoles.

room07082017-1.jpg
 

MartinBrentnall

Active Member
Yeah, I'm not a fan of external drives either. I like my entertainment center to look neat* and external drives go completely against that.

*At least, as "neat" as a living room entertainment center can look with two consoles, HTPC, PSVR (+ Processing Unit), HTS, Ethernet switch, optical switch and various adapters, cables, etc.. :p
 

Alpha One Seven

Active Member
1. I had a 40 inch TV on my desk along with a 24" and 27" screen for years. They sat here just fine. I have a 55" 4K, 40" 4K and 40" 1080P sitting here now on stands around the desk.

2. PCs aren't much more upgradable than this generation of consoles has been in terms of performance (PS4-PS4 Pro, XB1-XB1 X). By the time you need better performance, the current CPUs require a different fudgeing socket for no real reason other than to sell more motherboards. Yeah, you can upgrade HDD, GPU, etc. When I build I don't skimp on RAM, so I have no reason to ever upgrade that. It's usually GPU/HDD or full rebuild. Honestly, the only reason I might go back to PC gaming is the load times this generation. It's ridiculous. I can't stand it. All anyone cares about is pretty graphics no matter how long it takes to load things. I've been playing Hitman lately, and I probably spend more time on load screens than actually playing.


I also use a 40" screen on my desk, but it is a 4k monitor, not a tv. My TV is way too big to sit on a desk at 80". Besides I don't want a sore neck from scanning the upper portion of the screen at the desk.

As for the games that are on console, I never even bother to look at what is available because the hardware is the deal breaker for me. I look at PC games, and buy the ones I want, very simple and I never even miss what consoles have for offer.

I should say that I do own the consoles (Sony, Nintendo, MS) but they are in the kids playroom and I don't bother with them, but they are great for the kids, I do agree about that point.
 

Alpha One Seven

Active Member
This has been possible for over a decade already. Sony has officially supported internal drive upgrades for every PS3 and PS4 model ever released. I upgraded my PS3 Slim (320GB) to 1TB, and both my PS4 (500GB) and PS4 Pro (1TB) to 2TB.

Changing the drive on a PS4 is literally the easiest hardware upgrade I've ever done; it takes less than five minutes.

That said, using an SSD in a PS4 doesn't seem to offer the kind of performance improvements that one might expect or hope for.
The drive is not the bottleneck on those things.
 

Memeotis

Novice Member
I couldn't agree more, I know I'll be looking to buy a TV in the coming year, and I really hope Sony puts out a TV with input lag that rivals that C7. I am not too keen on LG because they don't use Android TV.

I don't see why Sony wouldn't want to capitalize on being the only OEM that produces both TVs and gaming consoles. You would think that they would gain significantly if they added a short tag-line at the end of their commercials: 'optimized for the PS4'.
 

NoLifeDGenerate

Standard Member
I couldn't agree more, I know I'll be looking to buy a TV in the coming year, and I really hope Sony puts out a TV with input lag that rivals that C7. I am not too keen on LG because they don't use Android TV.

I don't see why Sony wouldn't want to capitalize on being the only OEM that produces both TVs and gaming consoles. You would think that they would gain significantly if they added a short tag-line at the end of their commercials: 'optimized for the PS4'.

That's what I keep saying! Sony's TVs are a joke. I don't see the big deal about Android, but I definitely don't like the Roku sh*t my TCL uses.
 

MartinBrentnall

Active Member
I don't see the big deal about Android, but I definitely don't like the Roku sh*t my TCL uses.
Yeah, I've never understood why I should care what OS my TV runs. All I need my TV to do is change inputs, channels, volume, and adjust a few settings when I first get it. A TV isn't like a PC where the user experience is defined by the OS (which is the reason I haven't used any Windows garbage on my home PC's for the last fifteen years, and also one reason I'm not much of a PC gamer these days - there aren't too many games on Linux).

A few months ago, I went to look at some TV's in my local Media Markt; there was a Sony rep trying to tell me how much better a Sony TV was than the Samsung TV I was looking at because "the Sony TV has Android", yet he couldn't give me any explanation as to why I should care. But then the same guy also lied about the Sony TV having a lower input lag, because "Sony makes PlayStation and Sony products always work best together", which I looked up on the spot to prove him wrong, so the guy clearly didn't know what he was talking about.
 

Memeotis

Novice Member
Yeah, I've never understood why I should care what OS my TV runs...

To me it's a simple matter of most TVs nowadays having an OS, and being already invested in the Android 'ecosystem', I don't want my expensive TV to run some other OS when I can get one that is increasingly being integrated with what I already have. Especially with Google Assistant becoming very good, the Android TV OS just seems to be far superior.

That said, if it was a toss-up between two almost identical and equally priced TVs, one with Android TV OS and one with no OS and 30ms lower input lag, I'd most likely opt for the latter.
 

MartinBrentnall

Active Member
I don't want my expensive TV to run some other OS when I can get one that is increasingly being integrated with what I already have.
This is what I don't really understand though. I have an Android phone and an Android tablet, yet I still don't understand what benefit matching my TV's OS would bring me. My 2009 Philips TV runs Linux, but that doesn't mean it integrates with my Linux desktop PC or HTPC.

Do these Android TV's actually let you install apps from the standard Google Play Store? Because I guess that could be pretty sweet (e.g. installing Kodi directly on the TV itself instead of requiring an external device to run it).

But I assumed the TV manufacturers would lock down their Android TV's with their own UI's and apps, though I might be wrong about that. Even then, aside from Kodi, there's just not a whole lot I could even think of doing with an OS on my TV anyway (maybe I just lack imagination).
 

Alpha One Seven

Active Member
I couldn't agree more, I know I'll be looking to buy a TV in the coming year, and I really hope Sony puts out a TV with input lag that rivals that C7. I am not too keen on LG because they don't use Android TV.

I don't see why Sony wouldn't want to capitalize on being the only OEM that produces both TVs and gaming consoles. You would think that they would gain significantly if they added a short tag-line at the end of their commercials: 'optimized for the PS4'.
The TV's and the consoles are not even from the same places, they are very separate entities.
 

NoLifeDGenerate

Standard Member
The TV's and the consoles are not even from the same places, they are very separate entities.

As if anyone gives a sh*t. It's all branded Sony. I'm still pissed the PS3 had that awesome bluetooth remote, but nobody else will give stop using IR remotes. Even Sony won't use them for their other devices all these years later.
 

MartinBrentnall

Active Member
Yep. It's not the duty of the consumer to be concerned about the inner workings of a company. If the product I have says "Sony" on it and the product you're selling has "Sony" on it, then they damn well ought to work optimally together. If they don't, that's a failing of the company.

Regarding the PS3 bluetooth remote; how much battery life did you get out of that? I once trialled a Wii Remote as a solution for my Kodi HTPC, but gave it up soon after finding out how quickly it chewed through batteries. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever replaced the batteries in my 2009 TV remote.
 

NoLifeDGenerate

Standard Member
Yep. It's not the duty of the consumer to be concerned about the inner workings of a company. If the product I have says "Sony" on it and the product you're selling has "Sony" on it, then they damn well ought to work optimally together. If they don't, that's a failing of the company.

Regarding the PS3 bluetooth remote; how much battery life did you get out of that? I once trialled a Wii Remote as a solution for my Kodi HTPC, but gave it up soon after finding out how quickly it chewed through batteries. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever replaced the batteries in my 2009 TV remote.

The PS3 remote lasted forever one 1 set of batteries. I never saw an issue with the battery life.
 

MartinBrentnall

Active Member
That's pretty impressive. The Wii Remote needed batteries changing every few weeks.

I recently had my Android tablet playing music via Bluetooth to my living room speaker system. After six hours of playing music, the tablet battery was still at 96%, so I suppose battery life with Bluetooth can be pretty good these days.
 

Alpha One Seven

Active Member
Yep. It's not the duty of the consumer to be concerned about the inner workings of a company. If the product I have says "Sony" on it and the product you're selling has "Sony" on it, then they damn well ought to work optimally together. If they don't, that's a failing of the company.

Regarding the PS3 bluetooth remote; how much battery life did you get out of that? I once trialled a Wii Remote as a solution for my Kodi HTPC, but gave it up soon after finding out how quickly it chewed through batteries. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever replaced the batteries in my 2009 TV remote.
Then why don't they? lol

It IS the duty of the consumer to find out if a product they bought before will work with a product they are thinking about adding unless they are going to just replace all of them at one time.
 

The latest video from AVForums

AVForums Movies Podcast: Streaming Theatrical Releases And The Future Of Cinema
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom