Why is compression and macroblocking in streams not being discussed?

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by Bhamnerky, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Bhamnerky

    Bhamnerky
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    There are endless articles about 4K and now 8k. More on HDR and Dolby Vision. Consumers are spending big bucks on TV’s and are led to believe they can stream “4K content.” I don’t understand why people are not seeing the terrible macroblocks in all these streams? And don’t even try to watch “HD” on that fancy new TV. Got DirectTV? Forget it!

    To me the compression ratio on a piece of context is AS IMPORTANT as the resolution. Why are more people not complaining?

    How will you enjoy Game of Thrones in this coming season on your 4K tv? I hope they stay outside!

    What upsets me the most. Netflix has proven to me that if CAN be done. Watch Bird Box in Dolby Vision. Looks great! Not quite Blue Ray UHD but pretty close. But don’t watch Unfinity War! Don’t watch HBO. Don’t watch DirectTV! Don’t watch 98% of Netflix content.

    What am I missing? What are others doing? Just watching blue rays all day?
     
  2. lgans316

    lgans316
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    You have to ask Netflix why their streams are sent at a lower bit rate. For audio, it is under 1 Mpbs most likely to ARC bandwidth limitations. Video, for normal HD it is around 5-6 Mbps which is way too low. It is clear they are playing safe by catering to the majority under the assumption they don't have high speed broadband. For.UHD, it is.aroubd 15 Mpbs which is good but not so good as compression artifacts begin to show in near black scenes. All this can be mitigated by increasing the bit rate.
     
  3. Bhamnerky

    Bhamnerky
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    @lgans316 Of course your technical assertion to the root of the problem is 100% correct. The content owners own this problem and are in full control.

    My point of the post is to create a dialogue and get consumers properly educated. It will only be when consumers push back, will the content owners shell out the extra $ for less compressed content.

    I’m trying to figure out why I’m the only one talking about this. Maybe I’m warped in my thinking. I just grow tired of scrolling through 100’s of hours if content and seeing most of it is unwatchable.

    Are 4K owners just staring at UHD Disks all day? Do they not see macro blocks?

    BTW - We picked on Netflix. They are the ONLY streamer that seems to at least try here and there. It just happens to only be on their original content.

    HBO, Amazon, VUDU, and others do not even try. And the Satellite companies. Oh vey.

    I’m looking for perspective I suppose. And a way to illicit change.
     
  4. iangreasby

    iangreasby
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    I'm not sure that the problem is anything to do with streaming and/or broadband speeds, I think it is solely down to compression. I have Sky and Netflix and have compared the same content (whenever possible) between broadcast TV (Sky) and streamed (Netflix/BBC i-player) when I see macroblocking. In all cases that I've been able to compare, the problem is evident on both broadcast and streamed. For example, I watched Luther (series 5) in HD last night that I had recorded previously on Sky. As I had unfortunately expected, during the dark indoor scenes macroblocking became very obvious and bordering on unwatchable. I then went on to my TV i-player App and found the same content to stream, the problem was exactly the same and to the same extent. I have a Samsung MU6120 and am led believe that it is very unforgiving in showing artefacts caused by over compressed content. I should point out that I have not found any macroblocking in any 4K content via Sky, Amazon or Netflix or, for that matter, in any of my HD blu rays. If I could guarantee that the issue would be resolved by buying a different 4K TV then I would go down that route, even though my Samsung is only 12 months old.
     
  5. Bhamnerky

    Bhamnerky
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    You are correct in that it does not relate directly to internet speed per se. I run ATT fiber and get a consistent 300mbs.

    It is a choice the content owner makes about the encoding of their source. Higher compression means they spend less on storage which you can imaging is very high. It also costs them bit by bit to stream the content through the internet. So each bit they shave off, the less the stream costs them.

    With my internet speeds they could choose to send me far less compressed content. And by the way, I’d pay extra for it!!! That’s the real shame.

    They are banking on you not seeing it or caring about it.

    I’ll somewhat agree with you on 4K stream content (which there is very little of). It is better about this. But if you watch Amazon prime you still see macroblocking even on 4K.

    Has stated, HD is aweful.

    I do not think buying a new TV will help you. I have a LG C7 OLED. Looks terrible. Perhaps there are some tricks TV’s could do, but I doubt it. In reality, macroblocks are missing content that was omitted by the compression algorithm. It was meant to be not seen because lower-grade TV’s by definition don’t show details. That’s why you buy UHD TV’s, to see details! And that is what you see. The gory aweful missing data.

    Would you pay extra for a decent stream?
     
  6. iangreasby

    iangreasby
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    You make some very good points. It's a poor state of affairs if an OLED exposes this issue, that's a far more expensive TV than mine. However, surely there must be a lot of 4k TV owners out there who are not experiencing this problem, otherwise there would be a flood of negative comment on here? If not then we can only hope that broadcast/streaming technology improves to solve this issue. It seems that TV technology is leading the way and the broadcasters are lagging way behind.
     

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