Question Why does my HDR10 phone blow away my KD-75XE9405 Dolby Vision picture?

Picardobuzz

Active Member
I bought my KD-75XE9405 because Sony promised Dolby Vision support.

HDR10 on my phone looks fantastic (Huawei Mate 20 Pro) - exactly how you would expect it to look, but on the Sony it is just generally dull and lifeless. And I've tried every possible combination of settings now. The phone is only ~450 nits, 1440p, yet the Sony is ~1250 nits, 2160p. OK, the phone is oled, but still, the (TriLuminos) Sony should blow the phone away, but it doesn't even come close. And, yes, I am holding the phone such that the screen appears the same size as the Sony!

I have been complaining to Sony for over 3 months about poor picture quality, sent dozens of pictures and videos, done several factory resets, sent them masses of information and settings, and they have NEVER actually addressed a single point, instead choosing to tell me their engineers have considered the issues and my TV is "not at fault" and the effects I am seeing are deliberate content creator's "artistic" effects and other vague waffle.

As an example of a simple, repeatable demonstration requiring no equipment apart from a spare phone with a light meter App, I paused a scene with a bright sun, which I would expect to be maximum nits (whatever that may be for that program) and used the lux meter to compare the brightness of the sun on my phone and TV. I don't know the absolute scale of the App, but the phone's sun gave a far higher brightness reading than the Sony TV! This makes no sense at all.

From my reading here, it seems it's not just the KD-75XE9405 that seems to have this problem.

(I also have other issues, mainly with raised dark levels, but I'll save that for another thread to keep things simple.)

Does anyone have any suggestions or answers? I'm quite willing to accept I am doing something wrong, but have ran out of ideas - I just want the picture I thought I was going to get when I bought the television.

All thoughts gratefully received!

Regards,
 
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zubeir

Well-known Member
Sony use the Low latency Dolby Vision profile. Unlike LG and some other brands,DV is TV lead, whilst Sony in their infinite wisdom decided to use player lead DV. This is the reason why is doesn't look as good. The Sony XH9005 is TV lead, but even the high end models are not in 2020. Vincent from HDTV Test has done a YouTube video that explains this.
 

LCDseeker

Distinguished Member
Sony use the Low latency Dolby Vision profile. Unlike LG and some other brands,DV is TV lead, whilst Sony in their infinite wisdom decided to use player lead DV. This is the reason why is doesn't look as good. The Sony XH9005 is TV lead, but even the high end models are not in 2020. Vincent from HDTV Test has done a YouTube video that explains this.

I guess this is why Sony introduced the DV bright and dark mode on the XH9505? I find this really makes DV and HDR pop, whereas on my XF9005 quite a lot of HDR content seemed quite lifeless and dull.
 
I bought my KD-75XE9405 because Sony promised Dolby Vision support.

DV on my phone looks fantastic (Huawei Mate 20 Pro) - exactly how you would expect it to look, but on the Sony it is just generally dull and lifeless. And I've tried every possible combination of settings now. The phone is only ~450 nits, 1440p, yet the Sony is ~1250 nits, 2160p. OK, the phone is oled, but still, the (TriLuminos) Sony should blow the phone away, but it doesn't even come close. And, yes, I am holding the phone such that the screen appears the same size as the Sony!

I have been complaining to Sony for over 3 months about poor picture quality, sent dozens of pictures and videos, done several factory resets, sent them masses of information and settings, and they have NEVER actually addressed a single point, instead choosing to tell me their engineers have considered the issues and my TV is "not at fault" and the effects I am seeing are deliberate content creator's "artistic" effects and other vague waffle.

As an example of a simple, repeatable demonstration requiring no equipment apart from a spare phone with a light meter App, I paused a scene with a bright sun, which I would expect to be maximum nits (whatever that may be for that program) and used the lux meter to compare the brightness of the sun on my phone and TV. I don't know the absolute scale of the App, but the phone's sun gave a far higher brightness reading than the Sony TV! This makes no sense at all.

From my reading here, it seems it's not just the KD-75XE9405 that seems to have this problem.

(I also have other issues, mainly with raised dark levels, but I'll save that for another thread to keep things simple.)

Does anyone have any suggestions or answers? I'm quite willing to accept I am doing something wrong, but have ran out of ideas - I just want the picture I thought I was going to get when I bought the television.

All thoughts gratefully received!

Regards,

It appears your phone don't actual support dolby version or HDR. It you look there it is not on the supported list.


On your TV does it show the dv mode is enabled? What brightness level is your TV set to ?
 

chopples

Distinguished Member
It appears your phone don't actual support dolby version or HDR. It you look there it is not on the supported list.

I had one of these and it did support HDR. I think the netflix list is incomplete as it lists the mate 20 which was released at the same time with the pro being the flagship.
 

Picardobuzz

Active Member
I had one of these and it did support HDR. I think the netflix list is incomplete as it lists the mate 20 which was released at the same time with the pro being the flagship.
Aha - it definitely supports hdr, but probably not dolby vision - I'll do some more digging... Netflix lists programs as just HDR.

Could anybody with a dolby vision phone tell me if netflix lists programs as dolby vision - I'm guessing they would...

The original point still stands but is even more "wrong" than I thought because Dolby vision on the TV should be even better than plain HDR10 on the phone.
 

Picardobuzz

Active Member
I replaced the mate20pro with an iPhone 12 and I can confirm programs are labelled as Dolby vision:smashin:
Thanks, so I am fairly definitely viewing Hdr10 on my Huawei mate 20 Pro then...

I have amended the title and first post.

I would also add that it's a colour thing as well as brightness. If I turn up the colour to maybe 65/70 on the Sony so strong colours look more similar to the phone, then faces etc look too coloured. Also, I particularly noticed one scene where two lights were a distinct blue and perhaps indigo on my phone, but looked much more similar on the Sony - looked like a colour space issue... I'm very confused!
 
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Picardobuzz

Active Member
I've just watched an entire episode of Star Trek Discovery in parallel on my HDR phone and Sony native Netflix in DV. The difference is ridiculous. The phone looks like I'm looking through a crystal clear window into a 3d world whereas the Sony looks bland, lifeless and flat. The Sony has no contrast, particularly near black - in fact, some textures, say, on dark uniforms, are very clear on the Huawei but almost disappear on the Sony. Yet the Sony black bars at the top and bottom appear true black apart from a small amount of blooming where you would expect it from neighbouring bright areas.

One possibly silly thought - I almost think it looks worse late at night - could there be a heat related issue when the TV has been on for a long time?
 

Picardobuzz

Active Member
Sony use the Low latency Dolby Vision profile. Unlike LG and some other brands,DV is TV lead, whilst Sony in their infinite wisdom decided to use player lead DV. This is the reason why is doesn't look as good. The Sony XH9005 is TV lead, but even the high end models are not in 2020. Vincent from HDTV Test has done a YouTube video that explains this.

I thought Dolby Vision was just Dolby Vision - but I'm not at all surprised that the powers that be have decided to complicate things...

I looked at the Vincent Teoh YouTube video comparing TV led DV to Player led DV. The first orange flower comparison is something like what I am seeing, but my comparison is more extreme. The other examples are much more subtle and really nothing like my phone/TV comparison.

Is this player/TV led stuff still relevant to Sony native Netflix where it is all in the same "package"?
 

Picardobuzz

Active Member
On your TV does it show the dv mode is enabled? What brightness level is your TV set to ?
The TV shows DV is active and brightness is at max. I have Extended Dynamic Range on High and Local Dimming on High, gamma to 0, and everything else brightness related is off.
 

Picardobuzz

Active Member
I decided to take the plunge and get Calman Home for Sony, an X-Rite i1Display Pro Plus and Diversified Video Solutions Dolby Vision Test Pattern Suite. I am quite new to all this and know that Dolby Vision is complicated, but would this explain what I am seeing? It seems to be quite a way off to me:

Screenshot 2021-01-14 145404.png


All feedback is very much appreciated!
 

Palexr

Active Member
Find a way to play the DV programmes in SDR (separate streaming device) and the difference is more than a little apparent. The shows look much more acceptable - closer to your Huawei.

My view is that some shows look OK to good in DV but others are as you say, dull and lifeless. I think there is more than a little smoke and marketing mirrors to DV. Mind HDR10 and HDR10+ look just a rubbish to me on our Samsung.
 

Picardobuzz

Active Member
Find a way to play the DV programmes in SDR (separate streaming device) and the difference is more than a little apparent. The shows look much more acceptable - closer to your Huawei.

My view is that some shows look OK to good in DV but others are as you say, dull and lifeless. I think there is more than a little smoke and marketing mirrors to DV. Mind HDR10 and HDR10+ look just a rubbish to me on our Samsung.
My Sony is not set up at the moment as I've got fed up and bought an LG OLED77CX6LA to watch while I sort out the Sony. When I have the time and energy I will come back to the Sony and compare it to the LG OLED. The LG is fantastic, by the way - with ALL HDR sources it just looks like I always thought the Sony should have done - and looks just like my Huawei phone screen.

Regarding your very good idea, I have an Apple TV 4k. If I set it to HDR10 or SDR and turn off Dynamic Range Matching, does anyone know if the Apple TV box converts the picture from Dolby Vision or does it stream the HDR10 or SDR directly from Netflix's servers without messing with the stream?
 

Palexr

Active Member
My Sony is not set up at the moment as I've got fed up and bought an LG OLED77CX6LA to watch while I sort out the Sony. When I have the time and energy I will come back to the Sony and compare it to the LG OLED. The LG is fantastic, by the way - with ALL HDR sources it just looks like I always thought the Sony should have done - and looks just like my Huawei phone screen.

Regarding your very good idea, I have an Apple TV 4k. If I set it to HDR10 or SDR and turn off Dynamic Range Matching, does anyone know if the Apple TV box converts the picture from Dolby Vision or does it stream the HDR10 or SDR directly from Netflix's servers without messing with the stream?
I use an Xbox to switch off DV and HDR, it works fine and makes the unwatchable programmes watchable.
 

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