1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why does Amazon not include sound details on Blu-ray?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD discs' started by RayP, Oct 2, 2017.


    1. RayP

      RayP
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Mar 10, 2003
      Messages:
      3,278
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      Cheshire, England
      Ratings:
      +915
      I'm really peeved with Amazon. I've just bought the Blu-ray version of Casino Royale and fully expected the sound to be DTS-HD or equivalent. What did my version ship with? PCM 5.1 or DD5.1.

      Not impressed. They don't show sound details on their website. I understand there is a later version with HD-DTS sound but how on earth do you identify it on Amazon?

      Am I able to return it in exchange for the HD-DTS version? This version appears to be a later one presumably with DTS sound but still no mention of it.
       
    2. -gonzo-

      -gonzo-
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Nov 1, 2009
      Messages:
      6,490
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +3,654
      Probably the same reason why they clump all the reviews for the various different editions altogether so you don’t know what version the reviews are actually about.
      Mainly it’s because they just can’t be bothered I suppose.
       
    3. hippo99

      hippo99
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Feb 29, 2008
      Messages:
      14,830
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      163
      Ratings:
      +7,701
      And the same reason they don't list the region code (as you well know).

      In addition, that edition of Casino Royale is about 10 years old. There have been several releases since including a special edition & the current uncut version.

      I expect you bought it from a 3rd party market place seller & not Amazon themselves as they would no longer stock this version. Amazon isn't responsible for the information given on a 3rd party listing.

      Why not consult Blu-ray.com to check the specs of a particular edition, like everyone else does?
      Casino Royale Blu-ray
       
    4. RayP

      RayP
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Mar 10, 2003
      Messages:
      3,278
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      Cheshire, England
      Ratings:
      +915
      Well maybe I shouldn't bother buying from them. If I search bluray.com it lists the titles by date descending. If I click on the latest it then shows it has a DTS soundtrack. Following the link to Amazon shows it's the one I avoided as it's £1 more with a UV copy I didn't want.

      Can I return it and ask for the alternative?
       
    5. RayP

      RayP
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Mar 10, 2003
      Messages:
      3,278
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      Cheshire, England
      Ratings:
      +915
      Christ! How many version of an 11 year-old film are there out there? :( I just wanted a BD with HD sound. It's described as Region Free and was delivered separately from the others I ordered. Just my inexperience I guess. I'll ask you... can I send it back for the HD version? Is that sufficient grounds?
       
    6. hippo99

      hippo99
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Feb 29, 2008
      Messages:
      14,830
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      163
      Ratings:
      +7,701
      It's Bond. There'll be many more rereleases in its future.

      Depends. As you bought it from a 3rd party marketplace seller, so you'll have to contact them. The disc isn't actually faulty so it'd be at their discretion.
       
      • Thanks Thanks x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • List
    7. -gonzo-

      -gonzo-
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Nov 1, 2009
      Messages:
      6,490
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +3,654
      I’ve got this version
      IMG_1502.JPG
       
    8. hippo99

      hippo99
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Feb 29, 2008
      Messages:
      14,830
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      163
      Ratings:
      +7,701
      Lots of extras, but don't think that version was uncut though. The more recent uncensored versions are rated 15.
       
    9. RayP

      RayP
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Mar 10, 2003
      Messages:
      3,278
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      Cheshire, England
      Ratings:
      +915
      I've contacted the seller via Amazon. Fingers crossed.
       
    10. Indiana Jones

      Indiana Jones
      Moderator

      Joined:
      Nov 4, 2003
      Messages:
      34,350
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Bristol
      Ratings:
      +7,928
      Um the version you have does have HD sound :confused:
       
      • Agree Agree x 7
      • Like Like x 3
      • List
    11. thegeminiman

      thegeminiman
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jan 7, 2017
      Messages:
      1,678
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      143
      Location:
      beds
      Ratings:
      +2,019
      I would assume the info placed on Amazon is what they get from the studio. If you check any release from Arrow or Indicator you'll find a detailed list of the specs including the audio. I'm guessing that for the majority of titles the studios don't think it matters so don't supply Amazon with the information.
      If specific audio is important and you know there are multiple releases best check a comparison site to be sure.
      Had you bought it from Amazon you could return it no problem. However, even from a seller if the listing you bought it on says DTS HD and the disc does not have it that is a good enough reason to replace under the "different from website description" category.
      Assuming it was under £10 and not new you'll likely get to keep the disc you have aswell as a refiund then buy it again and making sure you get the right one
       
    12. Amar

      Amar
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Apr 15, 2005
      Messages:
      963
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      28
      Ratings:
      +50
      Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't PCM uncompressed audio? In which case, it'll sound exactly the same as DTS-MA.
      That's my understanding of it and I have the version of Casino Royale with PCM 5.1 audio which sounds superb.
       
      • Agree Agree x 5
      • Like Like x 1
      • Thanks Thanks x 1
      • List
    13. hippo99

      hippo99
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Feb 29, 2008
      Messages:
      14,830
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      163
      Ratings:
      +7,701
      99% of Blu-rays on Amazon just say
      Language: English

      Very rare that there is a breakdown of the audio formats available.
       
    14. Indiana Jones

      Indiana Jones
      Moderator

      Joined:
      Nov 4, 2003
      Messages:
      34,350
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Bristol
      Ratings:
      +7,928
      Exactly why I said it does have HD audio.
       
    15. Amar

      Amar
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Apr 15, 2005
      Messages:
      963
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      28
      Ratings:
      +50
      Thought so.
       
    16. RayP

      RayP
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Mar 10, 2003
      Messages:
      3,278
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      Cheshire, England
      Ratings:
      +915
      Thanks all. It appears PCM is going to sound the same as HD-DTSX from your replies. So what exactly is the difference? It is confusing for a late adopter to BD.
       
    17. hippo99

      hippo99
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Feb 29, 2008
      Messages:
      14,830
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      163
      Ratings:
      +7,701
      PCM is uncompressed.
      TrueHD & DTS-MA are compressed.

      Think of PCM as a music file.
      TrueHD & DTS-MA are zipped versions of that same music file, so take up less space on the disc.
       
    18. -gonzo-

      -gonzo-
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Nov 1, 2009
      Messages:
      6,490
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +3,654
      Didn’t even know there was an uncut version. If I’m honest I didn’t even know the film was cut to begin with Lol.
       
    19. RayP

      RayP
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Mar 10, 2003
      Messages:
      3,278
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      Cheshire, England
      Ratings:
      +915
      Thanks. How weird is that? PCM has a really boring acronym but delivers the same quality sound as the more exciting DTS-MA. :confused: Panic over.
       
    20. Jim Di Griz

      Jim Di Griz
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jan 24, 2009
      Messages:
      16,624
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Darkplace Hospital
      Ratings:
      +7,065
      Funny thread! Lets keep it going!
       
    21. hippo99

      hippo99
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Feb 29, 2008
      Messages:
      14,830
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      163
      Ratings:
      +7,701
      The
      torture scene at the end was slightly censored in the Theatrical & original home releases.
      Nothing major, but has been slightly censored. By comparison, the US release was very unusually quite heavily censored in some of the action scenes.
       
    22. andy1249

      andy1249
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      May 7, 2006
      Messages:
      7,957
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +2,208
      There are various methods of compression , both lossy and lossless.
      DTS and DD are lossy codecs that usually decompress to 16 bit 48Khz
      Dolby Tru HD and DTS MA are lossless codecs that decompress to 24bit 48Khz and sometimes higher like 96Khz.

      So where the title contains PCM multichannel not wrapped up in a codec package and you want to know if its a lossy or lossless equivalent look at the bit depth.

      My copy of casino royale is the PS3 freebie.
      You got it in the post shortly after registering you PS3
      Probably the worst version available but I,m just guessing.

      That and two others that were free with a Panasonic BD35 were my first Blu Rays.
      The panasonic player was itself a freebie with the TV.
      The Blu Rays with the 35 were rubbish titles, national treasure 2 and something else I cant remember.
       
      Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
    23. hippo99

      hippo99
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Feb 29, 2008
      Messages:
      14,830
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      163
      Ratings:
      +7,701
      Think that detailed an answer is just gonna give OP a heart attack :p:D
       
    24. thegeminiman

      thegeminiman
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jan 7, 2017
      Messages:
      1,678
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      143
      Location:
      beds
      Ratings:
      +2,019
      Which is what I said. Arrow and Indicator titles usually do as do other niche labels like the BFI- in the product description but not always in the spec list that appears under every title,the rest don't.
      To be honest I would expect anything from a Hollywood major to have HD audio but the fact there are a few exceptions is the reason to check first.

      AIUI DTS HD - MA and Dolby True HD are lossless and not compressed
       
    25. thegeminiman

      thegeminiman
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jan 7, 2017
      Messages:
      1,678
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      143
      Location:
      beds
      Ratings:
      +2,019
      The UK version had cuts to the torture scene and the US version was cut in different places.
      When the film appeared on dvd only Region 3 had it uncut.
      I can't recall which Bluray edition was the first release of it uncut.
      From Rewind:

      The following versions of the film are known:
      * The R-rated version (144:34).

      * The German R-rated version (144:34) in which a cut occurs during the airport sequence, when the bomb planter breaks a mans neck. In the uncut version, we see him twist his head, and you hear a crunch sound. In The German release, the bomb planter grab the mans head, and then it quickly cuts to the shot of the dead guys head on the floor - we do not see him twist his head, nor do we hear the crunch sound. This has been replaced by longer shots of the ground under the tank car and of the dead man on the floor.
      Special thanks to Rewind user shrieker for informing us of this cut.

      * The pre-cut PG-13 theatrical version (144:12) in which the following cuts have been made:
      - After an overhead shot of Bond and the contact smashing down a wall, the first and last few frames of a shot of Bond elbowing the contact in the chest are removed.
      - Directly after, a shot Bond smashing the door into the contact's face is completely removed.
      - After Bond gets to his feet, he kicks the contact in the face. This is missing from the US version.
      - Directly after, we see Bond grabbing the contact, who in turn grabs a garbage can, which he hurls at Bond. In the US version, we only get the last few frames of this.
      - When Bond hauls the contact to his feet and manouevres him towards another sink, the start of a low angle shot showing the contact's face as he struggles is cut.
      - The drowning of the contact is dramatically shortened. First, a close-up of the contact as he is held under is replaced with a shot of the contact's legs kicking.
      - Directly after, a close-up of Bond's intense face is removed.
      - Following this, we cut back to the contact as his struggles weaken. This is missing in the US version.
      - The high shot showing Obanno's bodyguard hitting the ground below after being thrown over the banister is removed. This shot is placed between Bond and Obanno fighting.
      - A close-up of Obanno as Bond smashes his head into a window, shattering it, is missing from US version.
      - Directly after, a wider shot of Obanno recovering and attacking again is cut due to the previous trim.
      - The first few frames of Obanno being thrown into a wall are missing in the US version.
      - Obanno grabbing Vesper's leg as she tries to run away is completely removed.
      - The following shot of Vesper falling but stopping herself in time is cut due to the previous shot's removal.
      - After we see Vesper try to open the emergency exit, a wide shot of Bond shoving Obanno back is missing from the US version.
      - Directly following, a wide shot of BG2 falling back is also missing.
      - Afterwards, Obanno reacting as Bond kicks him is too cut.
      - Obanno rams Bond against the wall, but not in the US version.
      - When Bond and Obanno struggle on the floor, Bond chokes BG2. The second angle of Obanno's feet kicking is removed.
      - After we see Obanno's face, we see him reaching for the gun on the ground. Missing from the US version.
      - A wider shot of them struggling is cut directly after.
      - The next shot, Obanno reaching for the gun again, is cut. In the US version, we only see Obanno reaching for the gun just before Vesper intervenes.
      - A shot of frightened Vesper breaks a shot of Obanno's legs starting to stop kicking. In the uncut version, the legs starting to slow is in one continuous shot, followed by the frightened Vesper shot.
      Special thanks to Michael Mackenzie/Whiggles for providing this information.

      * The pre-cut UK version (144:20) according to BBFC recommendations.
      "The BBFC advised the company that the torture scene placed too much emphasis on both the infliction of pain and the sadism of the villain for the requested '12' category. When the completed version of the film was submitted for classification, reductions to the torture sequence had been made, including the removal of lingering shots of the rope, close shots of Bond's facial reaction and the substitution of a more distant shot of the beating compared to the original version."
      IN ADDITION: "The torture sequence is now shorn of Le Chiffre’s taunting line about Bond's rock-chiselled physique. Whereas the "R-rated" versions show Mikkelsen drape the knotted rope over Bond's shoulder and utter the words "Such a waste" after commenting on how well he has looked after himself ("You've taken good care of your body" line), the UK version omits this."




        • Blu-ray A America- Sony Pictures Home Entertainment - Yes. Pre-cut PG-13 Theatrical Version. (144:12)
        • Blu-ray A Bond 50 America- MGM Home Entertainment/Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment - Yes. Pre-cut PG-13 Theatrical Version. (144:10)
        • Blu-ray ALL Collector's Edition America- Sony Pictures Home Entertainment - Yes. Pre-cut PG-13 Theatrical Version.
        • Blu-ray ALL Australia- Sony Pictures Home Entertainment - No Cuts. R-Rated Version (144:34).
        • Blu-ray ALL Edition Collector France- Sony Pictures Home Entertainment - No cuts - R-Rated version (144:34)
        • Blu-ray ALL Germany- Sony Pictures Home Entertainment - Yes. German R-Rated Version cut by 0:01 (144:34).
        • Blu-ray ALL Germany- Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment - No cuts (144:33).
        • Blu-ray ALL Deluxe Edition Holland- Sony Pictures Home Entertainment - No Cuts. R-Rated Version (144:34).
        • Blu-ray ALL Hong Kong- Deltamac - No cuts (144:33).
        • Blu-ray ALL Collector's Edition Hong Kong- Sony Pictures Home Entertainment - No Cuts. R-Rated Version (144:34).
        • Blu-ray ALL Italy- Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment - No cuts (144:33).
        • Blu-ray ALL Japan- Sony Pictures Home Entertainment - No Cuts. R-Rated Version (144:34).
        • Blu-ray ALL Japan- Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment - No cuts (144:33).
        • Blu-ray ALL Russia- Videoservice - Yes. Pre-cut UK Version (144:20).
        • Blu-ray ALL Scandinavia- Sony Pictures Home Entertainment - No Cuts. "R-Rated" Version (144:34).
        • Blu-ray ALL Spain- Sony Pictures Home Entertainment - TBC.
        • Blu-ray ALL Spain- Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment - No cuts (144:33)
        • Blu-ray ALL Collector's Edition Taiwan- Deltamac Co. Ltd. - No Cuts. R-Rated Version (144:34).
        • Blu-ray ALL United Kingdom- Sony Pictures Home Entertainment - Yes. Pre-cut UK Version (144:20).
        • Blu-ray ALL Deluxe Edition United Kingdom- Sony Pictures Home Entertainment - Yes. Pre-cut UK Version (144:20).
        • Blu-ray ALL Uncut United Kingdom- Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment - No cuts - previous BBFC cuts waived (144:33)
       
      Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
    26. andy1249

      andy1249
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      May 7, 2006
      Messages:
      7,957
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +2,208
      They are compressed but still lossless, not all compression is lossy.
       
      • Agree Agree x 4
      • Thanks Thanks x 1
      • List
    27. -gonzo-

      -gonzo-
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Nov 1, 2009
      Messages:
      6,490
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +3,654
      Well you learn something new everyday.
      I’m sure I can live without those missing 13-14 seconds Lol
       
    28. thegeminiman

      thegeminiman
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jan 7, 2017
      Messages:
      1,678
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      143
      Location:
      beds
      Ratings:
      +2,019
      Doesn't matter whether its 3 minutes or 3 seconds, I don't collect cut movies. I rented The Equalizer not knowing it was cut so when I bought it I got the French steelbook. Likewise with The Woman In Black which is only cut by 6 seconds but has numerous BBFC imposed changes to the visuals and soundtrack. What makes that worse is that the studio got the uncut version classified as a 15 at the same time as the BBFC 12 edition yet have not seen fit to release the uncut version here. The US edition is uncut.
      I'm not sure many movie collectors want cuts of any kind for any reason.
      Fortunately in most cases these days a film cut to get a lower rating in the cinema usually gets an uncut Bluray release although there are one or two cases where the uncut version is only on the 4K UHD and the included Bluray is still cut. The Maze Runner is one
       
    29. simonblue

      simonblue
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jan 29, 2006
      Messages:
      17,226
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      163
      Ratings:
      +6,752
      PCM has a fixed rate.
      DTS master & DD true have variable rate.

      PCM tracks do take up quite a lot of space on an blu ray,DTS masters & DD true dont take up so much space by being variable.

      :)
       
    30. simonblue

      simonblue
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jan 29, 2006
      Messages:
      17,226
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      163
      Ratings:
      +6,752
      I also try i get the uncut ones :)
       

    Share This Page

    Loading...