1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why do some lcd panels have a screen ratio of 15:9...

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by Rob20, Jul 5, 2004.

  1. Rob20

    Rob20
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,619
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +354
    ....instead of 16:9, and how does this affect the picture. Does 16:9 material have borders, is it squashed to fit in? are there borders? :confused:
     
  2. Messiah

    Messiah
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    7,530
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +339
    I think it's due to the manufacturers building the displays initially for computer use. 1280x768 is a computer w/s res. Those with primariy interests in the HC market seem to have true 16:9 displays but those with a history in the PC marketplace seem to still think PC res is OK.

    I could be wrong but that's my take on it, FWIW.
     
  3. cerebros

    cerebros
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,190
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Leicester
    Ratings:
    +11
    I think it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. JVC's screens (when in the "Full" mode for anamorphic video) insert small black bars above and below. I think Sharp's 15:9 screens crop off the ends of the picture (although I might be wrong about this - anyone?)
     
  4. LCDC

    LCDC
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    95
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Lancs.
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'm just in the process of investigating buying a 32" LCD TV, and I've been amazed at the number of TVs that are being advertised as 16:9 which are in fact only 15:9 :confused:. A large proportion of recent 30"/32" models are only 1280 x 768 which equates to 15:9 ratio. Fortunately there are beginning to creep in several new 32" models with true 1366 x 768 16:9 screens :).

    A local retailer was most surprised when I pointed out that one particular model was only 15:9, until he checked his specs and had to agree with me!
     
  5. MAW

    MAW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,082
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Nr Dorking
    Ratings:
    +412
    This crop sup again and again. Very few are true 16:9. Nigel tells us his Samsung 22 is 1280x720, and some are 848x480, but few if any others are real 16:9
     
  6. Gregorski

    Gregorski
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    277
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Warsaw
    Ratings:
    +2
    I don't think it matters provided the screen has the right mode to ensure no stretching and no loss of image.

    Remember that a 15:9 screen will be better when viewing 4:3 material and 14:9 material, of which there is plenty on terrestrial TV
     
  7. cybersoga

    cybersoga
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,628
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +25
    Who watches (analogue) terrestrial tv these days? most stuff on digital TV is 16:9
     
  8. Gregorski

    Gregorski
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    277
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Warsaw
    Ratings:
    +2
    Forgive the ignorance, but I don't have digital. Is BBC1 on freeview different to BBC1 terrestrial analogue then ?
     
  9. Rob20

    Rob20
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,619
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +354
    I recently upgraded from analogue ntl to digital and was surprised to find that a large number of programmes that had been 14:9 were now in 16:9. Though you still have the option to watch in 4:3 also.
     
  10. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,815
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +5,025
    Yes. Much of BBC1 output is 16x9 via digital. Ditto all the other 4 channels. Some occasional sports (eg from overseas), and OLD TV shows, are 4x3; most new programming, and movies, are broadcast 16x9.
     
  11. FruitBat

    FruitBat
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    3,301
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Ealing
    Ratings:
    +382
    My Samsung LW26A33W is 15:9 (1280x768).
    When connected to a freeview box it fills the height (cropping the sides). Sometimes when switching channels, it briefly shows properly (i.e. 1280x720 letterboxed) but then is expanded. I can't find any way of disabling this (still waiting for response from Samsung).
    PC with DVB card connected via VGA displays fine.
     
  12. MAW

    MAW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,082
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Nr Dorking
    Ratings:
    +412
    That is the usual type of experience. The Sharp 37" cuts off the sides. It's a nuisance, but they rarely seem to get it right. The Relisys 1720 letterboxes correctly, if they can do it at that price, why can't the others.
     
  13. eMonk

    eMonk
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Just thought I'd point out that the pixels may not be square...
    yes, 1280:768 is actually 15:9, but the actual dimensions of a screen may still be 16:9. Take the ALIS panels - 1024x1024 - you're not telling me they're square are you?

    As to thin black bars top and bottom... could this be that you are watching a 1.85:1 movie? 16:9 = 1.78:1, hence you'll always get thin black bars on a 16:9 TV - although they will be almost impossible to see on most CRTs due to overscan.
     
  14. MAW

    MAW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,082
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Nr Dorking
    Ratings:
    +412
    Wish it were so, like some plasmas, as you point out, though in fact rectangular pixels are an infernal nuisance for PC use. But quite a number of LCD screens are truly 15:9 or thereabouts. My laptop being one of them, at 1650x1050. You can clearly see in this case it's not the same shape as a widescreen TV.
     
  15. FruitBat

    FruitBat
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    3,301
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Ealing
    Ratings:
    +382
    The LW26A33W is 15:9. I did measure it.
    Approx 56.5cm x 34cm (1.66 ratio).
     
  16. eMonk

    eMonk
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yuk. I hadn't realised that - I've always assumed that PC screens would probably have square pixels, mind you most PC LCDs these days are 1280x1024 - which now I think about it isn't even 4:3 - bizarre. I can't quite believe that they make TVs like that.

    Now I think about it, I do seem to recall wondering about an LCD panel in John Lewis a while ago - I just put it down to crap set-up at the time, but it could well be this problem.
     
  17. Rob20

    Rob20
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,619
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +354
    I suppose the ultimate question regarding a 15:9 ratio is whether it actually matters!?
     
  18. cerebros

    cerebros
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,190
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Leicester
    Ratings:
    +11
    If the screen crops the sides of the picture off, I'd say yes. If it just adds small black bars above & below a 16:9 picture I'd say no
     
  19. cybersoga

    cybersoga
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,628
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +25
    Almost all LCD's use square pixels (unlike plasmas). All you have to do is divide the number of pixels horizontally by the number vertically, thus

    1280:720 = 1.7777777777777777777777777777778:1 = 16:9
    1280:768 = 1.6666666666666666666666666666667:1 = 15:9
    852:480 = 1.775:1
     
  20. Gregorski

    Gregorski
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    277
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Warsaw
    Ratings:
    +2
    Exactly. Unfortunately some crop, Sharp being one. This is quite surprising since they are supposed to be the market leader.
     
  21. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,815
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +5,025
    I suppose that if such a screen was set up so as to overscan laterally, by the amount normal for all TVs, but to not overscan AT ALL vertically, then you'd get a more or less undistorted image, not missing anything that you wouldn't miss anyway, and gaining a bit top and bottom.
     
  22. MAW

    MAW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,082
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Nr Dorking
    Ratings:
    +412
    You've got a point there Nigel. Here we are carping on about flat panels, forgetting that almost all CRT's are far from faultless, particularly in the overscan dept.
     
  23. D J Fryer

    D J Fryer
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    717
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    High Wycombe, Bucks
    Ratings:
    +12
    Obviously this takes into account most av enthusiast's view that everything should be viewed in the correct aspect ratio. A large number of people who buy this size of LCD TV will want their screen filled and therefore cropping the sides of a 16:9 image to fit a 15:9 screen is one way to stop the 'why have I got black bars at the top and bottom of the screen' calls to customer services.

    I would imagine it is incredibly simple to include it as an option in a menu though, after all many people like to zoom images on CRT to get rid of black bars...........
     
  24. Gregorski

    Gregorski
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    277
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Warsaw
    Ratings:
    +2
    Quite. Since these are probably still being aimed at the enthusiast, you would expect them to be catered for. This is still a premium product at a premium price after all.
     
  25. cerebros

    cerebros
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,190
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Leicester
    Ratings:
    +11
    But now you've got your nice new LCD screen, which won't suffer from any of the distortions you get on a CRT set when you start reducing the overscan by large amounts (when I briefly had a JVC 32P37 I think I could reduce overscan down to the 5% marks on the DVE anamorphic geometry patter before uncorrectable distortion set in), you surely want to see the whole of the picture available?
     
  26. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,815
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +5,025
    Do you know, for certain, one way or the other, whether or not a true 16x9 digital device (plasma, LCD, projector, DLP RP etc etc) actually overscans or not? My suspicion is that they probably all do - by roughly the same amount as a regular CRT.

    My point was made on these assumptions (right or wrong):

    a) a true 16x9 device will be set up to overscan.
    b) it doesn't actually need to.

    so - a 15x9 device could happily overscan horizontally and nobody will miss anything that's important - the picture content in this area is supposed to be "safe" i.e. contain nothing material; and it could happily NOT overscan vertically because it doesn't need to.

    Of course there's equally nothing at all to stop a TV maker taking an off-the-shelf 15x9 panel and fitting it into a bezel with a 16x9-shaped hole in it (i.e. hiding a bit at the top or bottom of the LCD); and setting the scaler up to only use the bit that's visible through the hole. Maybe that's what Samsung did with mine - once the warranty has expired, I might take it apart.........
     
  27. cerebros

    cerebros
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,190
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Leicester
    Ratings:
    +11
    I don't know for certain, but I very much doubt that they would overscan by as much as a CRT (which is quite a lot from my experience) if at all. You're not going to have to distortion introduced by the screen (as with CRT) and with DVD or digital TV, image quality should be good all the way to the edges


    Why do you assume this? Not saying you're wrong, just intrigued as to your reasoning.


    No argument there


    That may be true for TV programmes, but for movie DVD's where you should (in theory) be getting the complete image the director wanted you to see, you're going to be losing bits of it.


    Well you'd think that would make sense wouldn't you? Or maybe all this 15:9 screens they use come with a discount if you buy them with a 15:9 bezel :D
     
  28. zenith

    zenith
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Are there actually any 15:9 screens that crop 16:9 material for full height display rather than squash it?

    I know that the Philips 30" doesn't. It has two modes, one which displays 16:9 material with thin black bars and one which squashes the 16:9 image to 15:9.

    The Sharp 30" also appears to have the same 2 options although I haven't tried one myself. The manual on the Sharp web site describes the two modes as follows:
    Mode 1 - Projects 16:9 squeeze image evenly over entire screen.
    Mode 2 - Displays a 16:9 squeeze image without distortion. However, black bands appear at the top and bottom.
    The description is accompanied by pictures showing a squashed image in mode 1 and a letterboxed image in mode 2

    Another poster mentioned that the Sharp 37" cropped the image but that model is true 16:9 (1366 * 768) so it shouldn't need cropping/squashing.

    More true 16:9 models are appearing such as the Philips 32" (1366*768) and even the £999 Logik 27" in Currys/Dixons which is 1280*720. I have also seen another 27" 1280*720 model being sold under the Akai and Goodmans brand names.
     
  29. Rob20

    Rob20
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,619
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +354
    On the subject of screen ratios, I notice that Sony's 32" plasma KE32TS2E has a resolution of 1024 by 852!? what resoplution does this relate to, and will it accept 720p?
     
  30. Reiner

    Reiner
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +13
    Actually I did notice that some panels, plasma and LCD, do indeed distort the picture aspect rations so that people are either too fat or too thin. Some show the correct ratios.

    Best thing to do would probably be to bring a test DVD that displays a perfect circle, then you can check.
     

Share This Page

Loading...