Why do people take so much delight at...

[ianh64]

Why do people take so much delight at wanting other peoples investments to become worthless?

There is room in this world for two high definition formats. Combo drives will get cheaper and become fully functional. Costs will come down.

I don't see the problem of there being two formats.

But some people seem intent on wishing other people misfortune. I had similar happen with DVD-A. Its not nice to be left out in the cold when a format goes quiet. I wouldn't like it to happen to anyone else.

Please stop referring to this silly format 'war'. Its not a war. There is room for the manufacturers to make some money in it, and the consumer gets a choice. Its not like the two formats are completely incompatible like VHS/beta where a choice had to be made. I don't hear people raving on about what's best out of DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RAM - multi format drives mean that people have a choice of what to buy - they can choose which format suits them best. I don't see why it can't be the same for HD-DVD / bluray.

 

[David Mackenzie]

Why do people take so much delight at wanting other peoples investments to become worthless?

It's down to purchase validation, I think.

Plus, the two sides play off each other - not to single out any other specific sites, but there are such rabidly loyal "fan communities" dedicated to specific formats which often feature infantile and sometimes outright hateful posts directed at people in power who hold different opinions.

 

[peterweg]

Being forced to pay twice for what is essentially the same piece of hardware is NOT a good thing. If you do it its a waste of money. However, 99% of the general population will simply avoid buying either format and both formats will die.

 

[TarMoo]

The problem is that the success of one format is not measured in terms of the failure of the other. All these percentage figures are bandied about when people should really be interested in the growth figures of the player and DVD sales themselves.

If one format had 40% of the overall DVD market, then that would be about $10 billion a year sales. Something worth while. However 60% of $80 million a year is not much to crow about.

99% of DVDs are not available in High Def. So why buy a HD player. Answer, HD players are usually better at upscaling what most people are buying as DVD players. The argument that it is not worth buying one variant of HD players is not valid, unless the price of the player is very expensive (e.g. over £500). The benefits are huge. You are not forced to buy two players.

 

[Sonic67]

I think whatever happpens in the next few weeks it might be wise to remember a few things.

If you choose a side you are taking a risk. You knew that at the start.

Whatever happens it seems like it can all be changed again - maybe not to your liking either.

Be nice to people when you are on the way up. You might be seeing them on the way down again.

 

[Caralfa]

Same thing as happened with Video Tape!!
Best picture and sound system of the three available systems was the Phillips Video 2000 followed by Sony's Beta and then VHS which although the worst for actual quality of picture and sound became the winner.
With the general public, quality hardly ever comes into it. It's a question of price and availability and what is advertised the most effectively by the manufacturers. Just look at the modern cinemas! No decent picture or sound in any of the multiplexes, but that appears to be what the 'public' wants.

 

[7hil]

Simple, it's the "I'm right and you're wrong" mentality. We all want to believe that.

Especially the men here.

 

[peterweg]

I think whatever happpens in the next few weeks it might be wise to remember a few things.

If you choose a side you are taking a risk. You knew that at the start.

Whatever happens it seems like it can all be changed again - maybe not to your liking either.

Be nice to people when you are on the way up. You might be seeing them on the way down again.

Well, actually choosing Blu-ray was essentially risk free because the overwhelming majority of films were available for it. Now a certain portion (20%) are not so I feel entitled to be ****** off.

I'm still convinced the EU will bar the Paramount deal because its so obviously anti competitive. They even pulled films that they had announced (and probably paid to be developed)

 

[Nic Rhodes]

Ian

it never ceases to amaze and sadden me the 'ram it down you throat' views of some on the internet. They seem to think that their way is the own way (on a huge variety of subjects), especially when they seek to justify a purchase, as Lyris has well posted about here earlier. Like everything in life there is a wide church of opinions, and I for one enjoy having both formats. I see little or no justification for knocking one product just because I may also like another. In fact I have a long history of just buying the quality solutions, regardless of which side of the fence they come from (see the collection of kit here now !!). It is quite possible for two quality solutions to be available to the public (Mac / PC, Xbox, PS...). It is fine to knock a product if it is found wanting but not because you just happen to own another similar type product, I just see all these 'knocking' posters as 'internet time wasters' but I have never been one for 'collecting a make' or following a fashion I look to see what is offered by the product in question, not what the competition 'promises' or what the internet says.

 

[Noggin1980]

I don't want Blu-ray to fail, I want HD-DVD to suceed, not because I own it (though that of course matters to me) but because I want to see the format that chose us over the studios succeed, I want to see the end of Region Encoding, I want to see the end of draconion copy protection methods that hurt the legitamate owners while doing very little to protect against piracy.

Hopefully if one format does die there will be good quality and affordable dual format players by then so people can fully continue to enjoy the disks they brought even though the format lost.

If Blu-ray was the same price as HD-DVD and they hadn't given in to Fox and Disneys region coding and BD+ demands then I'd be a Blu-ray owner instead (presuming the studio situation was the same and it probably wouldn't be).

There is no way the EU will bar the paramount deal, they take years to sort this sort of thing out and there has been plenty of this from the other side. By the time the EU got around to doing anything the format war will be over.

 

[Greg Hook]

Unfortunately the anonymity that forums provide are a breeding ground for the kind of narrow minded attitudes and opinions that are so prevalent. Fortunately on AVForums we don't see a huge amount of this and the majority of posts are usually friendly and helpful and if they do stray too far the mods keep them in track.

This isn't just restricted to HD DVD and Blu-ray. It happens with PC/Mac, Xbox/PS3 etc etc. Right back to Spectrum/C64.

I have the Xbox 360 but I have no desire at all to see the PS3 fail. What benefits are there to me to see that happen? None.

Although the worst I have seen for sometime are the Blu-ray and HD DVD fanboys. Shocking some of the comments and laughs when one side has bad news etc.

 

[David Mackenzie]

I'm still convinced the EU will bar the Paramount deal because its so obviously anti competitive.

Personally, I'd be very surprised. The reasons Paramount have given for exclusively backing one format are pretty solid and we're not even entirely sure if they did receive a pay-off at all.

Did the EU do anything to stop Fox, Disney, Lionsgate etc releasing exclusively on Blu-ray (other than perhaps voice disapproval?)

 

[jackal]

Ianh64.

To be honest I haven't seen so many of the "You've just bought a £x00 doorstop" comments for a while.

That maybe because a number of people who make those comments have been notably absent for a while.

I don't think the majority of true fanboys are interested in seeing other people's investment wasted. This is just their version of football fanaticism, sad as that may be.

I think other people stances are harder to comprehend, some on here have gone from Blu ray supporter (being polite here) to totally anti HD optical media - 'long live downloads' - just because of Paramount/Dreamworks decision.

At the end of the day I am sure you and I will ever know why this means so much to some people.

I find it very interesting but I do not lose sleep over it.

 

[David Mackenzie]

I don't think the majority of true fanboys are interested in seeing other people's investment wasted. This is just their version of football fanaticism, sad as that may be.

No better or worse, if you ask me.

 

[MAW]

Wot Noggin said. Region coding is anti competitive, the EC should look into that if they want to stick their nose in. I don't think they have any jurisdiction over what format stuff is released on, otherwise they'd be trying to prosecute G. Lucas for only releasing on DVD, not on any HD format. What astonishes me is how easily some folks have given up hope. And in any case, it's not as if any hardware is suddenly rendered obsolete or anything, hopefully it will all be working years down the line. The people most financially hurt by a possibility of BD failure are the least bitter, ie Nic. He's got expensive stand alone hardware and not a games console that will without doubt continue to be supported regardless. No doubt Nic sees his player as an investment that will continue to play the movies he enjoys, which if they are BD exclusives which at some point the studio starts HD DVD production, it might be many years before they re-release BD movies as HD DVD. I've got a laserdisc player. It's now in a box in the loft, it cost a fortune at the time. It was fun whilst it lasted.

 

[grey torq]

Speaking from experience I think particularly from a Blu-ray only perspective it's driven by the desire for only one format and a quick end to the 'war' ref Sony's marketing and Bill Hunt's column.

Having now gone neutral and let go of that asperation, it all looks a bit embarassing with the benefit of hindsight

If you only do own one format it is easy to become competitive/argumentative...no excuse though.

 

[Adam1980]

Also some people get into a pack mentality- like bullys at school.

I like having both!

 

[dazzM]

I want to see the end of draconion copy protection methods that hurt the legitamate owners while doing very little to protect against piracy.

I dont see how this affects anyone. Youre not supposed to copy anyway, regardless of how easy it is to do.

I suspect regional coding will be dropped from blu ray in the future if only to help pull in hd dvd owners. Come to think of it, only Fox and some Disney releases really utilize this now.

I do wish dual players were the norm though. Id hate to think that IF one format were to fail hundreds of blu ray/hd dvd owners end up with a very expensive cd player

 

[Pecker]

I think a lot of it comes from the games consoles wars.

They've had this sort of rivalry for years, and I think (in fact I know) that a lot of people here are from the games forums. They watch about as many DVDs as anyone else (1 or 2) but wouldn't ever have been an early adopter of HD DVD or BD if it meant buying a stadalone.

To be fair, I think HD DVD fans have been very restrained indeed over the last week. The number of comments we get after Nielsen every week "HD DVD is dead by Christmas", "HD DVD just got its ass kicked", etc, are sickening.

Personally, I'd be disapponited if the outcome of this 'war' meant BadAss couldn't play his BDs, and I'm going for a dual format future, as I have all along.

Strange how, even now in this very thread, we have BD fanboys throwing their teddy out of the cot. A previous "BD is sure to win" attitude becomes "Now BD can't win I'm going to say both will flop".

Dual format served vinyl well for many years, and it served DVD-A/SACD far better than many would have us believe. We have a chance over the coming months to make it work for high def video.

Having a standalone that plays both formats should be no different to having a DVD player that plays both DD and dts sound formats.

Steve W

 

[Noggin1980]

I dont see how this affects anyone. Youre not supposed to copy anyway, regardless of how easy it is to do.

I suspect regional coding will be dropped from blu ray in the future if only to help pull in hd dvd owners. Come to think of it, only Fox and some Disney releases really utilize this now.

I do wish dual players were the norm though. Id hate to think that IF one format were to fail hundreds of blu ray/hd dvd owners end up with a very expensive cd player

No you are not supposed to copy but that is wrong, why shouldn't you make a back up, a copy for the car, a disk you don't mind you kids messing with, a copy for you PSP or other small movie player while traveling, a digital copy on your PC to stream around the house. You paid for the movie as long as you are giving it to others you shouldn't become a criminal for enjoy the movie in the way you wish.

We are yet to see if BD+ is going to affect us or not, maybe it will work perfectly, cause no incompatability issues, not slow anything down etc but only time will tell but there are some worrying things possible with BD+ like detecting if you used a multiregion hack on your player and dealing with it. Hopefully none of the less palatable options will be used but the fact that the options exist and they have been faught concerns me.

Amir said that most the studios are against region encoding hence the fact it isn't there on HD-DVD but FoX and Disney are very strongly for it and that is a very big part as to why FoX and Dinsey are Blu-ray exlusive, I can't see Disney and Fox releaseing new titles on Blu-ray without region coding at all unfortunatly.

I hope Dual format players will become more common and better value too, once there is a dual format player that is at least as good as my Toshiba E1 for £400 or less I'll buy one.

 

[MarmiteOnToast]

Both formats are flawed in some ways bluray with its region coding and HDDVD with its lack of capacity.Looking at the long term i prefer both formats to suceed, let people make their choice. Some of the comments are getting very bitter,going by some of the stuff said on the forums i gonna give the bristol show next year a miss, it be like a war zone.I will probably get both formats and rent all my films from my online rental safest option no money wasted on the software if one does fail.

From a Hifi buff point of view(not many of us left with all this MP3 stuff). I read both formats have the option of a audio only disc which would surpass the failed DVD-A and SACD formats.Bluray has the option of 24bit 192khz of 8ch uncompressed pcm while HDDVD can only do 24bit 96khz 8ch has everyone overlooked this.