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Why do PAL 60 games look so ugly on my tv?

Discussion in 'Nintendo Forums' started by dakini, Sep 1, 2004.

  1. dakini

    dakini
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    Sorry - another boring PAL 60hz question. :boring: I'd love to know the answer though - it's really getting on my nerves.

    I have chipped and imported consoles but also untouched PAL ones and for one reason or another I sometimes buy the PAL version of a game - for example 'Ico' since it has some improvements over the US version.

    But if I choose the PAL 60 option - as Ico has for example - the picture is noticeably inferior.

    I have a regular Sony Wega 32".It is a ordinary 50 hz model.Not old and it's rgb/ntsc compatible and all that.All the consoles are RGB connected with high quality cables.Everythings configured correctly - such as the RGB option being turned on in the PS2 menu.

    But whenever I choose the 60hz option in any PAL game using any console with RGB or any other connection then I get these evil thin horizontal lines running through the screen - most evident in the text of course.Ruins the picture so I just have to use 50hz which seems a shame.I just dont get it. :confused: Im at a loss I really am.I just dont know what Im doing wrong.

    Can anyone help me out?Its driving me bananas. :lease:

    Thankyou!
     
  2. AgentCool

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    I was having the same problem with Xbox PAL60 and I think the answer simply lies in the fact that any 60Hz signal is going to have an inferior picture quality than a 50Hz one, at least when using a native 50Hz display. This is because 60Hz signals produce 480 lines of resolution whilst 50Hz signals produce 576 lines of resolution. So, although running games in 50Hz tends to result in slower frame rates, you get the better quality, higher resolution picture. The horizontal lines you speak of probably arise from the internal scaling within the PS2 which changes the 50Hz signal into a 60Hz one. Because your PAL TV has more lines than an NTSC one, the 60Hz signal has to be 'upscaled' to fill the additional lines of resolution resulting in a poorer picture. A pure NTSC (ie. non PAL60) signal doesn't really have this problem as there is no scaling involved though I still prefer pure PAL to pure NTSC.

    BTW, what I have written above is only what I think is accurate. Don't take it as hard fact, it just seems logical to me!
     
  3. CrispyXUK

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    PAL60 is the same res and reresh as NTSC with the PAL colour carrier so it will be an inferior picture, still its better than NTSC.
     
  4. dakini

    dakini
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    Thanks for your responses guys :thumbsup:

    I understand what your saying (mostly) although but it leaves me perplexed as to why such a fuss is made of the importance of having the 60hz option in PAL games when it looks so much worse? (would insert 'slightly perplexed and bemused smilie here if there were one)

    Fortunately I mostly import so its not usually an issue.Slightly off-topic I'll tell you a game which really highlighted the difference for me between ntsc and pal 50hz - Final Fantasy X .I have both versions and the difference between the two is nothing short of astonishing.The PAL version has borders which obscure almost half the screen and the movement of the characters is horribly sluggish in comparison.I showed both to a mate who was wondering whether to chip his PS2 so he could import and he was instantly convinced.I have to say though - it is a particularly bad conversion.Anyway,thats another issue in itself.

    As you may have guessed,Im not the most technically minded person :blush: but,given time and patient explanation,things usually sink in :D
    Anyway,thanks for the info - gives me something to mull over.
     
  5. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    I agree the NTSC games are far better and I never buy the PAL releases these days unless the JAP versions are all in JAP and the is no International version or patch to put the game into English.

    PAL games are generally too slow and have terrible borders. Th 60htz settings inprove things but not all games have a 60htz setting and the picture is better via ntsc anyway.
     
  6. CrispyXUK

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    Not a problem on the Gamecube as all games have a 60hz mode built in, I hear that a lot of PS2 games dont get this option and also receive quite bad PAL conversions.
     
  7. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    Yeah I think that's correct - I personally wouldn't know as I very rarely buy a PAL game as NTSC provides a better picture than PAL60 IMO. The NTSC image is a lot clearer than the PAL one I find, and there's no wonder that people dislike PS2 graphics so much if the only time they have seen them is via a PAL signal. As mentioned above FFX is almost like a different game when the NTSC version is played.
     
  8. RL123

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    Not quite, but most GC games have a 60Hz mode. One or two PAL games desperately needed a 60Hz mode but they were left out :thumbsdow Just play Ikaruga and compare it to the JPN NTSC version...the PAL version is disgracefully choppy and slow :nono:

    60Hz PAL PS2 games are becoming more common but still not frequent enough. The PS2 doesn't actually use PAL60 - it converts the picture to NTSC - so there is no reason why every game doesn't feature an NTSC mode :rolleyes:

    The Xbox is the only console to have stopped poor PAL conversions being a problem, IMO. Well done Microsoft :)
     

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