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Why cant I get the bass to boom?

ttree sound

Established Member
I attended the Madonna show at Cardiff on the weekend - great show but, the bass to me sounded as my head was about to be booooooomed off. I had tissue paper plugging my ears but it still sounded exceptionally loud and boomy

Is this type of sound that I should be striving to obtain at home? The trouble is, I cant replicate it, my system simply will not boom to anywhare near those levels but this outdoor event was as real as it gets.

Does this mean that home audio is simply too polite to be taken seriously?
 
R

recruit

Guest
But did it sound right ? when i think of the word Boom it means too much bass at certain frequencies and surely that is not what we would like to hear at home :confused:
 
D

DTSFan2001

Guest
I saw a show at Wembley Arena, and there was definitely no boom there, very tight and chest thumping bass. Also the same at Hammersmith Apollo, and I was right in front of the speakers. I suppose that in some places there can be a wrong place to stand/sit even with all the arrays of speakers. At home, if my sub even thinks of booming I would immediately go about sorting it.
 

Nimby

Distinguished Member
Madonna is not using a BFD!?! This is awful!! :eek:

I think a polite email is in order, don't you? :rolleyes:
 

HiFiRuss71

Distinguished Member
Sod it! I've spent 100s trying to stop just this sort of boom.

If it helps, I was at the San Siro to see Robbie Williams a couple of weekends back and I thought the bass was bloody awful. Booming tuneless and ill defined. I imagine that unless you're standing right next to the mixing desk, you don't get the full effect of the engineers work. I'm having fun equalising bass for just one position, never mind 76,000.

Russell
 

Dynaudio Desire

Established Member
You would think for such a popular act that she would at least have good bass!

But the boom is just to excite the fans as msot of them dont realy know what true bass is as they listen to her albums on a 2 watt Alba system. However ttree sound I find it concerning that you (the owner of a Rel Studio III) want your bass to boom!

Shocking.
 

eviljohn2

Prominent Member
I don't think that the OP is trying to describe bass-boom in the bad uncalibrated HC kind of way but more the way that several megawatts of PA equipment can load an arena and give you a serious kick!

I havn't heard a PA system that sounds like a hifi, but nor would I want a hifi that sounded like a PA system. They both fulfil very different roles and have different aspects to consider in their design. :)
 

Mylo

Distinguished Member
Stick a 15" sub in a small car, wind the gain up and close all the windows, this replicates brain melting bass very easily and could be described as Booming :D
 

ttree sound

Established Member
The first thing I did when I got home the following day was to stick the Madonna cd on, it sounded totally inadequate and my wife thought it sounded "crap". :eek: I dont think I would go that far though.

The first impression of the live music was wow this is boom like no other boom I have ever heard but does it mean that my bass is perhaps too controlled?

The bass certainly had visceral impact as my throat was constantly vibrating as was my camera and drink bottle in hand. I estimated the db level to be at a constant 110db+ which could never be sustained at home due to the high frequencies scratching my ears to extreme. The live show bass simply swallowed up nearly every other sound by a factor of 5 to 1 I guess.
 

stevefish69

Prominent Member
You only have to look at the Wall's of speakers they use, and you can imagine how easily it is to get it wrong, but have to agree that some concerts i've been to would blow ya socks off.

I took the missus to see a live Simulcast of a Robbie Williams concert at Shepherds bush empire. The sound was absolutely awful, and even the missus agreed that it was not a patch on out HT setup :clap:

The SVS sure does help out in the situation though. I also get the same comments from SWMBO every time we visit our local excuse for a cinema :rolleyes:
 

HiFiRuss71

Distinguished Member
I seem to recall that high frequencies drop in SPL, with increasing distance, faster than LF sound. I imagine that with all the long distance reflections possible in a stadium, if you're near the back, a bass heavy boomy sound is pretty much what you're going to get.

The best concert sound I have ever experienced was standing about 5 people from the front, on the pitch when Genesis played Wembley Stadium back in 1987. Deep synth notes made my sternum vibrate. It made it hard to smoke your reefer. It was quite simply the clearest least compressed sound I've ever heard. What it sounded like at the back is anybodies guess, but I saw the Floyd there a few years later, sitting up one side and that rocked too.

The Williams gig, was slightly different in so far as the stage was along one side of the stadium firing across it, which I can't imagine helped. You wouldn't set up your room like that.

Maybe memory is rose tinted, but I expected better. Still a good gig though.

Russell
 

Nimby

Distinguished Member
I listen across my present 30 foot stadium. :blush:

In fact I've been listening across my listening rooms for over 30 years.

I imagine the cross-stadium setup was to bring the paying punters closer to their idol.

To give a better sense of intimacy.

Weren't you intimate with your idol, Russell? :)
 

D65

Established Member
I think you have boom and bass mixup....

I can't really imagine anybody like his bass to be boomy.

I feel that good bass goes right to your stomach while boom attacks your ears violently and constantly draws your attention to the sub.
 

HiFiRuss71

Distinguished Member
Nimby said:
I listen across my present 30 foot stadium. :blush:

In fact I've been listening across my listening rooms for over 30 years.

I imagine the cross-stadium setup was to bring the paying punters closer to their idol.

To give a better sense of intimacy.

Weren't you intimate with your idol, Russell? :)

No I bloody wasn't, but the 30 something teenage woman behind me, probably had to wipe her seat down before she left.

Was a very good viewing position though. On that you're quite right.

Russell
 

AleXsr700

Established Member
Which Madonna album are we talking about?

"Music" has quite strong bass and "Confessions" is totally overblown. The older ones have too little bass. So really it is part of the way they are recorded/engineered.

However, I do know what you mean. A PA system can really make you doubt your Hifi.

I went to a Metallica concert and it was f***ing amazing! I went home deaf on one ear and had a tinitus for 6 months, but hell it was worth it. My right ear is still slightly inferior to my left ear, but given my excellent hearing my doctor wouldn't have noticed had I not told him.

Well, anyway, you should be able to get that kind of bass-load if you just setup your subwoofer correctly. Or rather incorrectly. Meaning, let it process everything it can (even up to 120Hz and more) and turn it up too loud. Then turn up the entire system as far as you can. Problem often simply is, that the small rooms we have at home simply make those kind of volumes painfull before they sound powerfull.

I don't know why, but I also always like the bass at concerts. But I hate everything else about them :D
Harsh treble, no real mids, no clarity......

As I said, turn your sub to passthrough and crank it up. And play one of the two newer albums.
 

dingwall

Banned
Amazing how little people know about professional sound gear, live music or bass.

What you are hearing/feeling is what happens when you experience 60-120Hz at over 120dB, aided and abetted by some nice distortion. Hardly any domestic hifi speaker can do this, nor are they designed to.

Your PMC's and REL subwoofer are designed for tonal accuracy and detail retrieval at volumes of under 100dB.

An outdoor Madonna concert is gonna be pretty feeble sound - have you never been to a small indoor live venue or nightclub? You could replicate and better the sound easily in your living room with just £700 of Peavey PA gear...splash out on some RCF speakers and you will be in heaven.

If you want to shift air and get live sound, you need to rethink your gear completely. Personally, I use a pair of 12" floor stage monitors which I take on the road too for high volume/party listening - they don't produce a peep under 45Hz but they hit 128db with ease and shake everything in sight, my nasal cavity, sternum and pants included...cheap 'n easy way for concert sound in the house!
 

HiFiRuss71

Distinguished Member
Nimby said:
Madonna is not using a BFD!?! This is awful!! :eek:

I think a polite email is in order, don't you? :rolleyes:
Can't believe we've missed this one.... Of course she was, otherwise mic feedback would've been the issue. Some people have been known to use them for their true purpose you know. :rolleyes:

Russell
 

Nimby

Distinguished Member
damenace said:
So what changes according to you at 120dB?

Your hearing goes into defense mode above 110 dB followed by decades of tinnitus depending on the frequency and length of overexposure.

Your sensitivity to high frequencies withers and you spend the rest of your life saying; "pardon?"

Anyone not wearing industrial quality ear plugs at concerts is an idiot.

I thought they set maximum SPLs at concerts several decades ago?
 

Stuart Wright

AVForums Founder
Staff member
ttree sound said:
The first impression of the live music was wow this is boom like no other boom I have ever heard but does it mean that my bass is perhaps too controlled?
Despite the replies above, you have still not twigged that the term 'boom' as applied to bass means something BAD in home cinema.
If you instead meen punch, or simply mean that you want to hear the sub-bass more then look at your subwoofer volume. You haven't even mentioned how your REL has been calibrated. It's certainly capable of loading the room with bass. But position, crossover settings (if you're using it) and volume will have a lot to do with it.
 

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