Why bother having advisors?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Synchronicity, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. Synchronicity

    Synchronicity
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    This week the government has ignored it's own advisors yet again in relation to reclassifying drugs - late last year advisors reccomended that cannabis should not be upgraded but the government decided to ignore them and all the evidence supporting their arguement. Did they learn from that fiasco? No - in the news this week was yet another instance of the government once more ignoring their very own expert advisors and refusing to reclassify ecstasy! What is the point in having such experts who gather information, perform studies then provide the facts only to be told "we cannot hear you,la la la, we are just going to ignore the facts and do what we want..."

    When evidence and expert advice is ignored to keep ridiculous laws in place you have to wonder how competent this government is - the sooner these clowns are out of power the better:suicide:

    Scientists attack plan to upgrade cannabis | Science | The Guardian

    BBC NEWS | UK | Adviser attacks ecstasy refusal
     
  2. eric pisch

    eric pisch
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    this government has always been dont do what we do, do what we say
     
  3. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Advisors offer advice. Most government ministers will have several advisors who often offer contradictory advice - such is the nature of advising.

    You only have to look in the technical forums here to see that people who ask for advice get different recommendations from different people. None of them are necessarily wrong but opinions are just that. Opinions
     
  4. RBZ5416

    RBZ5416
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    Fixed. ;)
     
  5. eric pisch

    eric pisch
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    very true

    but this ones especially extra triple thick super topping controlling :mad:
     
  6. jassco

    jassco
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    i was under the impression that they wanted it reducing in classification because it's not as harmful or addictive as other drugs. But the reason the government won't is that there isn't a 'safe' dosage, unlike the likes of cannabis.

    I completely agree, it should be a class a drug
     
  7. mij

    mij
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    Most politicians are not experts in the field they are governing, they rely on advisor's because of this (good for bankers :)).

    Then they they decide if that advice will make them look good or bad to the electorate and in most cases ignore the advice.
     
  8. Synchronicity

    Synchronicity
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    I see your point, but this is not just the advice from some guy - this is from a group of experts in this particular field who the government have designated their advisory council. It is not as if the government has taken onboard their advice, looked at the facts but then gone with the advice off some other experts - they just ignored the facts and advice and said they didnt care.

    If something is made ilegal because it is thought to cause xyz damage, then after studies are carried out and it is found that actually they were not correct in their original analysis, you would think the law would then be revised to reflect these new findings. Perhaps I am just being too idealist.
     
  9. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    We elected the government not the advisors. The government ultimatly makes the decision and sets policy.
     
  10. eric pisch

    eric pisch
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    absolutely we elected our prime minister based on his policy's and to run the country according to those policy's :mad:
     
  11. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    The government wasn't elected on a policy to downgrade drugs. I don't remember them saying they would. If they did I'd be interested to know if it could be considered a vote winner.

    History also tends to look down on Presidents that do whatever their advisors say.
     
  12. Synchronicity

    Synchronicity
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    and on occasions such as this when the government knows nothing about the subject they employ the help of experts who will advise them accordingly - then in their wisdom the governmet are free to either take this advice on board and change policies accordingly or ignore the people who know what they are talking about and do the exact opposite.

    Personally I would rather have a government who listens to facts and reason to set policies rather than some outdated fear of tabloid scaremongering.This goes for all policies,not just the useless drug laws - if policies are found to be failing or proven to be set up wrongly in the beginning, they should be reviewed and changed accordingly.
     
  13. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    Government advisors also tend to be experts who advise on lower speed limits and the introduction of road pricing. The public tends to want the opposite. I assume you also side with advisors on everything else?

    The country is a democracy. The public doesn't want soft drug laws. Like it or not it's how democracy is.
     
  14. eric pisch

    eric pisch
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    how do u know, there has never been a national vote on just this issue
     
  15. Synchronicity

    Synchronicity
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    If evidence is provided that a certain law was created under false pretences,is totally unworkable or needs revision then yes I would heed that advice, they are the experts after all and if evidence is provided to support their claims then why on earth would you not listen to them?


    I was not aware that we had had a referendum to establish that:confused:
     
  16. Gary D

    Gary D
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    ha ha, see previous comments made a drugs policy. and the lack of debate around the subject. even on this board the anti drugs members wont debate it even when i posted replies to their posts.

    In terms of the drugs the govenment dont set the policy they react to what the papers tell them and ill informed public opinion follows.

    its been that way for the last 40 years and it wont change.


    G
     
  17. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    I'm sure the liberal party has touted it as a policy in the past. Never helped them. The mainstream parties have always been firmly anti-drugs as their policy makers have done their own investigations and polls and concluded it would be a bad idea.
     
  18. Devil On Your S

    Devil On Your S
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    Nothing does as much damage as alcohol and nothing kills as much as cigarettes. Make all drugs legal. Oh, and whores as well :D
     
  19. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    This would be the cigarettes that have increasingly stiff legislation. For instance public smoking bans and now a ban on their display together with high taxation. With alcohol I trust people also follow the guidelines on the units of alcohol also calculated by scientific advisors?
     
  20. Gary D

    Gary D
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    Do you have any evidence for that? or is it just your own opinion that your touting as fact?


    G
     
  21. Synchronicity

    Synchronicity
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    When they covered the story on the news they had a Lib Dem guy on, commenting how ridiculous it was that the government were refusing to listen to scientific facts, comparing them to George Bush - ok, I know it is nothing new for a politician to ridicule the opposition but he made the point very well and it was enough to make me think about voting for the Lib Dems for the first time ever.
     
  22. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    Conversely do you have any evidence that major political parties have never bothered to investigage public opinion on drugs or are you taking an opinion that it would never be done?
     
  23. Jammydodger

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    The green party have also said that they "welcomed a government-commissioned report which recommends downgrading ecstasy from the most-dangerous group of drugs"

    LINK
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  24. Synchronicity

    Synchronicity
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    Ok, the green party just went right up in my estimations - a political party that uses/listens to common sense:eek:
     
  25. Gary D

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    i sign of the ill informed to answer a question with a question. if yuor going to state something sonic then you have to back it up or are you gunning to be editor of red top?

    go and seek out my other posts on the subject and debate those.

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/general-chat/923897-now-what-us-brits-do-3.html#post8733513


    G
     
  26. eric pisch

    eric pisch
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    The other way to look at it is the government have just pee'd a great amount of our money up the wall employing these consultants and experts to study the data and come up with a recommendation based on reality knowing full well they would ignore any advice they did not like, why bother ...
     
  27. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    Personally I found it incredible that you think parties never seek out public opinion on making policies. I'm happy to debate once people move on from 'legalise it' and 'taking drugs makes me an expert'. I trust you are aware of the long list of associated healths and social risks? That even the legal drugs have had increasing legislation? That even Amsterdam has now decided it should start cleaning up its act? Why considering Amsterdam is usually touted as a success?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  28. Gary D

    Gary D
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    i'd suggest you read the read the posts i'm a former drugs and addiction councillor in a rehab unit, and i have a degree in public policy - and your qualifications are?

    G
     
  29. Sonic67

    Sonic67
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    I know four people who were ****ed up by drugs and one who died. Aside from that I know a few who would be better people if they moderated their alcohol intake as well.
     
  30. Gary D

    Gary D
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    i'll give way to your superior knowledge and experiance then.


    G
     

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