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Why are there so few 32" plasmas?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by Rob20, Jul 13, 2004.

  1. Rob20

    Rob20
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    Because I've been looking for a 26"-32" lcd or plasma, I've come to realise there aren't all that many 32" plasmas. Why is this? I can understand that when plasmas were £10k, the 42"+ size gave people the impression all that money was getting them something they couldn't get on a crt set, (plus they probably couldn't compete with crt's pictures). I find myself looking at 42" plasmas like Sonys hi-def KEP42M1 at £2,600 ish from rgbdirect. However, as much as I would love to spend that amount of money on a tv, I just haven't the space for such a large set. It seems that they don't do a cheaper smaller 32" model for some reason. They do have a 32" lcd set that looks identical and has similar if not identical specs. However, the lcd is only £400 cheaper. Who wouldn't spend £400 more to get a 42" screen rather than a 32"?? Surely the average consumer doesn't want a screen bigger than 32"?? :confused:
     
  2. Joe Fernand

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    Rob20

    And I guess the manufacturers believe the 'average' customer wants a very low cost 32" Flat TV - enter left Taiwan and huge low cost high volume LCD TV's.

    The Plasma manufacturers are going large and aiming to produce products the LCD manufacturers can touch!

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  3. Reiner

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    I don't think the demand for plasmas that small (32" and smaller) would be high, that part of the market is taken by CRT TVs and now LCDs.
    Plasmas at 80" have been announced but also LCDs at 57", so LCD is getting closer - see http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/shownews.php?id=6573

    Some interesting comments from Taiwanese manufactures about the future of plasma:
    http://www.taiwanheadlines.gov.tw/20031229/20031229b2.html
     
  4. Ekko Star

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    At 32" it costs far more to produce a Plasma than it does any of the other technologies.

    You have to remember the manufacturers have to literally open a new plant for each new size of Plasma.

    A lot of people in the industry have begun saying that Plasma is now a dead duck. LCD advancements have made this a more viable and more economic alternative to CRT. Initially it was targeting the smaller screen sizes, but it already looks to have dispelled that limitation.

    Speaking to Sony reps recently, Sony's plans are by 2006 that their product range will be 60:40, LCD : Plasma. CRT as we know it is on it's last legs and for most of the major manufacturers these are the last of the top of the range sets. Development on CRT models I believe has already stopped at some big names.
     
  5. Joe Fernand

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    Ekko Star

    Is that Sony that's on its last legs or Sony CRT :)

    I guess Sony have to hope that Plasma dwindles - they don't have a Plasma production plant and now rely on Samsung and its business partners.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  6. Ekko Star

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    CRT in general :) Most of the major manufacturers actually now have a very limited offering in new CRT sets. I believe this is their final swan song and last stab at them. Pity really as CRT direct view is still of paramount quality.

    The alarming thing is LCD has been so rapidly adopted by most manufacturers and is not only replacing CRT's but there is serious talk of Plasma being wound down within 2 years.

    Not only that LCD has already bridged the gap between small and larger screen sizes and most importantly been readily adopted by mass market far eastern manufacturers. It's something they can get to grip with and market cheaply in a big way very quickly. Unfortunately Plasma has never been that accessible to mass market and still isn't to this day.
     
  7. noidea

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    LCDs still make everything look like a poorly dubbed Bruce Lee film though
     
  8. Ekko Star

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    :confused: :confused: :confused:

    Considering 1st gen models only hit UK shores earlier this year and we are STILL only half way through this year, the rate of proliferation should give an idea of intent of manufacturers. Each new model now being introduced is getting better and better at such an alarming pace, I think we are talking 1 year max for a top quality alternative.
     
  9. noidea

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    maybe so, but when I was looking at getting a flat screen originally I was really taken by the styling of the phillips 9986 - however when demoing it, on a normal news channel I found myself just honing in on the way the reporters lips just seemed to be dissolving and reappearing as she spoke. Picture looked great until I noticed this, but once seen I couldn't buy it. I'm sure things have/will improve but at the moment plasma technology trumps lcd for me.
     
  10. Ekko Star

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    and CRT still trounces Plasma. Unfortunately pic quality is not what it's all about anymore, it's now only one of the aspects taken into the equation. You are also comparing 6th/7th gen Plasma's with 1st gen LCD which just shows the legs LCD has got over Plasma. Also "at the moment" is very much used in the past tense when we are talking about consumer electronics nowadays !

    Personally I'm not a great fan of anything Philips. They are great inventors and very poor executionists. Sony have a cracking 42" LCD, it's not there yet but it's a great 1st stab, (1st gen Plasma was nowhere near this good, quality or cost wise) and shows what to expect in the very near future.

    Plasma has always had major inherent downsides that are very difficult to address, it's expensive, doubt over it's longeveity, picture quality/contrasts, screen burn and it's very delicate and fragile to transport. In mass market terms it's going to be very much second place to LCD which has all the benefits of Flat Panels as well as far less of the downsides of Plasma.

    Personally I think the market will polarise, Flat Panel LCD as the bulk of it and very cheap end CRT's. I think Plasma will get forced out as it will sit in "no mans land." And we are talking well within 2 years. Any investment you make now has got to be a well though out one !
     
  11. Rob20

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    I always thought that lcd panels were far more expensive to make than plasmas? otherwise, why is a 32" sony lcd only £400 cheaper than a similar spec 42" Sony plasma!? Something like 50% of larger lcd screens have to be destroyed due to imperfections during the manafacturing process one mag stated.
     
  12. Ekko Star

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    It's a little bit unwise to base the shift in the industry on pricing of one product within a range by a manufacturer like Sony. Of all people Sony are the worst when it comes to cross product pricing !

    Imperfections in flat panel construction apply universally.

    You are also basing 6th/7th gen product pricing on early adopter 1st gen priced product. However even so, it still is there quite clear to see because when 42" Plasma was introduced they were > £10k. LCD has come in at, around or less than Plasma's current prices...no mean achievement in itself.

    Biggest factor is how the far east manufacturing have taken to LCD. It's tried and tested proven and reliable technology. This means we are talking mega big numbers being produced cheaply. We are talking worldwide CRT replacement here not CRT alternative.

    Without doubt the prices will fall into line.
     
  13. Rob20

    Rob20
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    Until lcd panels are made in the correct 16:9 format I'm not interested. Also, it seems to me that plasma sets are currently superior to plasmas in terms of picture qualities. Plus they seem to be cheaper inch for inch. I just don't have the space for a 42" tv, or £2,600. Up to £2,000 is as far as I caqn go and that's pushing it a bit really. :rolleyes: :(
     
  14. nealgs

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    what size is the room Rob20, that the screen is going in?

    just curious as to why a 42" is to big (size is everything, afterall ;) )

    Gary
     
  15. Rob20

    Rob20
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    About 3.5m by 3m. From viewing position to screen is probably 2.5m. A 42" screen would look ridiculous really. My mates got a 42" in a small lounge, and it's far too big in my opinion. Ultimately I plan to get a bigger screen when I have more space, so the idea is that the one I buy now will be fit into a spare room/bedroom in a few years time. That's why 26" is probably optimal, but I might just push it to 32". But that's the absolute maximum. For now. The only reason I'm looking at a 32" is that it has the same width as Panny's 26" lcd. :)
     
  16. Rimmer

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    Hear, hear. And don't get me started on 1280 x 1024 "4:3" models.:rolleyes:
     
  17. nealgs

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    Yes, i see what you mean, the screen would be quite out of place if a 42" jobby

    cheers
    Gary
     
  18. Koing

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    Ekko star you do realise that LCD has been out for a few years in computer and laptop screens right? They are not 1st gen products in the sense that the tech is new. The tech has been out for years. Just no one bothered to make a big tv out of it.

    I pesonally have a great 23" lcd monitor. It is great but would not use it for tv. All the ones I have seen the ghosting is not good. Also you need a much higher quality source to make it look any decent. On a plasma screen it looks better for the given source.

    Size at the moment plasmas are cheaper in the 42" arena and that is where I am interested in and above. Most people will go with a CRT for 32" viewing. 42" will be for plasma and you get the few LCD at that which are 'much' more pricey then the plasma offerings.

    When LCD gets sorted out it will still be more pricey then plasma screens for 42" size. It will be interesting to see how all this tech changes in the coming years.

    It doesn't matter what you buy in the end though. As long as 'your' happy with it and it looks 'good' to you then go get it. Me I can stand RPTV and won't be buying one. But some people love it. At the moment to my eyes I won't get an LCD but a Plasma screen. Some guys can't stand plasma screens and won't get one. I don't care about that. They are not the ones watching it :D

    Koing
     
  19. Reiner

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    LCD panels are available in that format. But also note that not all plasmas are 16:9, even the pixels calculate to that - have seen enough plasmas with the same resolution in comparision where some squash things and make e.g. people look fat or cars look too wide.
    Obviously the pixels are not entirely square, just as a plasma with 1024x1024 can be 16:9 (i.e. the screen is not square).

    Big sized LCDs are expensive to manufacture and the sales are low since they are rather new. Plasmas, in particular those around 42" have been around for a while and thus are cheaper.

    Both technologies have their pros and cons but I always note that colors on LCDs are far more vibrant than on plasmas. However there is often noise/buzzing on areas of the same colors.
    Then again some plasmas don't display a gradual change in the color scale, making it look like a 16 color picture (partially).

    My current favorites are the 42" Panasonic plasma (6 series) or the Sharp 37" LCD - but they are both expensive here in Taiwan.
     
  20. Ekko Star

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    Yes of course I realise that and is precisely my point, tried and tested technology. It's also reliable and consistent, if it works from day one, then 10 years or so down the line the display will work in the very same way. Plasma deteriorates due to the gas and there are doubts over it's longevity.

    I absolutely do not agree LCD TV will remain more expensive, far from it. Simple economics dictate that and it's becoming evident already.

    Having a look at some of the Sony 1st gen offerings eg 32" they offer a truly astoundingly natural picture. Yes they suffer from motion blur or artefacting but bringing down response times should address that. There is no doubt they can and will do that, after all existing 16ms in PC monitors renders video/gaming quite well.

    As for the 16:9 issue. Well we were all sold the fact that widescreen tv's were the format to go for as it was what movies were filmed in. Call it 16:9, 15:9 etc etc whatever resolution density, every display I have seen I still generally see black bars ? Until everything is shot in true 16:9 then I think this is a fairly mute point.
     
  21. Reiner

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    Agree, and given the wealth of LCD TVs in he shops here it's proven that CRT will die out soon and things are getting cheaper as sales increase.

    Correct, widescreen or 16:9 is the same proportion as a movie filmed in 1:1.78, thus there won't be any black bars, but all other formats (and there are many) will result in black bars, more or less.
     
  22. Koing

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    Well the point isn't moot imo.

    The point is when you are viewing Widescreen material you want to see 'all' of it on your widescreen tv which is @ 16:9. NOT have bars on it. But granted this is on smaller screens that I don't care for but some people do.

    With plasma losing its brightness/colour after so many years is a point which imo isn't bad. Your CRT has also done the exact same thing. But I'm sure you haven't really noticed it and thought one day the picture was bad right? The change is very gradual over the course of 5yrs or so.

    As it stands 'large' lcd tv's are more pricey then plasma screens. I wonder when the prices of 42" lcds will compete with plasma screens? Can't wait to see what both tech and do in a few years time.

    Koing
     
  23. Ekko Star

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    Actually I'm not sure you're getting the point here :confused: Irrespective of the display size or being true 16:9 or not. You will only see what the source is filmed in and it is not all 1:1.178 material. Until everything is shot in that way then you will still see black bars on your 16:9 widescreens for a long time to come.

    As for Plasma's longevity well if you can tolerate that sort of decline over that period, you've got more money than sense ! The humble CRT has been with us for an age and it will outlast Plasma's reign as well (albeit in smaller format). I've personally never had a CRT set that has gone "bad" in 5 years or deteriorated to that extent ?
     

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