1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

why are plasmas the resolution they are?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by NaTT, Jul 21, 2004.

  1. NaTT

    NaTT
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,107
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +77
    ...because they rarely match anything sensible to allow 1-2-1 pixcel mapping.

    Computer screens have resolutions that match standard outputs so why not Plasmas?

    Is it to do with PAL / NTSC stuff? Sorry I've drawn a blank. I'm sue if I though long and hard enough it'd come to me.

    Whilst I'm at it (and here-in may lie the answer) what resolution is "standard" TV and DVD in this country and others?
     
  2. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    In the states NTSC video has 480 active lines hence the 852 x 480 resolution. This is also a direct 16:9 interpolation of VGA (640 x 480) in the same way 50" plasmas (1366 x 768 ones) are a 16:9 version of XGA res (1024 x 768). So they are in fact a lot closer than you think, especially considering all standard computer resolutions are 4:3 and all current plasmas are 16:9... 1024 x 1024 on ALiS panels is the only weird one, not quite sure what they were on there!!

    Newer plasmas, LCDs and projectors are 1280 x 720 to match 720P video which is the same resolution. The next res up (which we hope to see in plasmas soon, and which is likely to be in the next generation of top-end DLP projectors) is 1920 x 1080 to match the next HDTV standard up 1080i and 1080P.

    1-2-1 pixel mapping is relatively easy using powerstrip to alter the resolutions your graphics card can produce. Many newer graphics cards are starting to incude these resolutions now.
     
  3. Plump

    Plump
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    636
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    under the bridge
    Ratings:
    +0
    Plasma with 1280x720 ?? Which one?
     
  4. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    Well projectors and LCDs at 1280 x 720, and there's the Pioneer 50" plasma at 1280 x 768 (weird choice of resolution IMO but i'm sure there are reasons). You get what I mean though.
     
  5. NaTT

    NaTT
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,107
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +77
    top of my shopping list is a Pioneer PDP 43MXE1-S, hence the question as it has 1024x768, (which I don't think are square either, what's that all about?).
    So what level of hi def video can it display? Is this likely to be greate than or equivillant to the definition offered by Sky in 2006 (going on 7), because the life of the screen's going to need to accomodate this me thinks....
     
  6. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    A 852 x 480 res panel has 408,960 pixels to build up the image. A 1024 x 768 panel has 786,432 pixels to make the image with.

    576P (PAL Progressive Scan) is 1024 x 576 and so is made up of 589,824 pixels. For the lower res panel some of this information will be lost in the downscaling process, in the higher res panel additional information will need to be interpolated in an upscaling process.

    720P (720 line HDTV) is 1280 x 720 so 921,600 pixels. This signal is therefore downscaled by both plasma screens thus losing information, but the higher res plasma will still have more pixels to play with in in drawing the final image.

    Both types of plasmas are compatible with the higher res feeds. The Pioneer will be able to produce the sharper picture over say the Panasonic PWD6. But resolution isn't everything.

    If you like the Pioneer I say put your backorder in and buy the Pioneer! It's a fantastic screen and will do everything you could want from it.

    For ultimate picture now from DVD and Sky Digital (+) you could invest in a dedicated video processor that would be able to really take advantage of all those extra pixels the MXE1 has.
     
  7. Rimmer

    Rimmer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    A 1024 x 768 plasma is not truly high-def, because high-def is specified as having at least 1280 x 720 pixels. The Pioneer is close to 720p resolution, but not quite there.

    Just to make things more confusing, while a 1024 x 768 widescreen plasma or LCD clearly does not have square pixels, 1280 x 768 LCDs do, so the aspect ratio is 15:9, slightly narrower than 16:9.
     
  8. MAW

    MAW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,082
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Nr Dorking
    Ratings:
    +412
    Whilst PAL video is 720x576, this is technically UK TV resolution, it actually works as 1024x576 at 16:9. Strangely also a res. used by projectors. The only true widescreen 16:9 plasmas are 50". The sharp 37" LCD is true widescreen HD, at 1366x768, and there are a smattering of 1280x720 22" LCD screens, and that's it. The reasons are historical, all plasmas were originally just large PC monitors, so always had a vertical pixel count corresponding to a VGA resolution. Hopefully it will eventually change.
     
  9. NaTT

    NaTT
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,107
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +77
    clear as mud then ;)

    "Backorder"? how long's the wait at the moment? 43 MXE1-S
     
  10. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    Not much of a wait on Pios, 50's are always in and black 43's usually are but you need to backorder if you're after a silver 43. Not long mind, couple of weeks maybe. Depends how many backorders the dealer you go to already has on his list.

    Maw - 852 x 480 is just about true widescreen too...
     
  11. MAW

    MAW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,082
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Nr Dorking
    Ratings:
    +412
    Er, yes, but not HD.
    Decidedly low res really
     
  12. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    Well, yes, low res widescreen.
    But still widescreen :p
     
  13. MAW

    MAW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,082
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Nr Dorking
    Ratings:
    +412
    Absolutely, but I thought we were talking hi def here.
     
  14. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    Oh right, gotcha. Wake up and smell the coffee Liam! :blush: Thought we were going onto the "why is my screen 15:9?" debate for a minute there cos you said the only true widescreen plasmas are 50", rather than plasmas that can show all of a 720P signal!! Not all fiddies are true widescreen 16:9 resolution either (Pio), not that it really matters!

    Maybe it should be plasmi? Has a nice ring to it that, "true widescreen Plasmi"...
     
  15. MAW

    MAW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,082
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Nr Dorking
    Ratings:
    +412
    I think you are right on the plasmi, though your classical Greek may be more up to date than mine. No, lets not do the 15:9 thing.... you know it makes no sense. True hi def is now the biggest challenge in the HC business, we all know it's coming, what's the best way of future proofing. We now find many of our clients are willing to pay the extra for a HD screen, whether true widescreen or not. They are now the price that the SD was 9 months ago, now that makes sense! My sales pitch starts by recommending them.
     
  16. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    Classical Greek?? I just thought it sounded good!!
     
  17. MAW

    MAW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    14,082
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Nr Dorking
    Ratings:
    +412
    You could have quoted Mr Royle at me there. 'Classical Greek my a***'
     
  18. Radiccio

    Radiccio
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    7
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    By my calculations, neither of these panel sizes appears to scale well to either SD or HD material:

    To display SD wide-screen content (720*576 native, displayed as 1024*576) on a 1366*768 panel means that the scaler will need to add every fourth pixel horizontally and vertically. This shouldn't look too bad. Showing SD 4:3 content on the 1366*768 panel is the same vertically with vertical black borders at the side unless you - or your scaler/DVD/screen - are partial to fat people or nausea-inducing horizontal pans.

    HD content on a 1366*768 panel means you have to add another 86 horizontal and 48 vertical pixels. You might as well have a small border around the whole picture and 1:1 pixel mapping, although it depends on the scaler as to how good this looks if you stretch it.

    SD wide-screen content on a 1280*768 panel means the scaler has to add every fifth pixel horizontally - which shouldn't look too bad - and the same vertically, provided you don't mind a black border. If you have to fill the screen you're either going to end up with stretched people or miss some of the side of the picture - neither seems appealing. Watching SD 4:3 content on a 1280*768 screen means the scaler has to add every fourth vertical pixel and the picture shouldn't look to bad if you're happy with vertical borders. If you need to fill the screen, you take your chances.

    I'm thinking of buying a plasma or LCD to connect to a HTPC and it is bewildering. All the Faroudja trickery in the world isn't going to help make up for mathematically incompatible resolutions. The incompetence of high street shops demonstrating such panels is breathtaking, with the results in my opinion nearly always unwatchable but they're selling like hot cakes. I'm hoping that the HTPC scaling (PureVideo anyone?) will make a better job of it.

    I'm probably a bit picky - my Sony 25" TV was replaced with a Panasonic 32" 100Hz job some time ago and despite turning all the digital trickery off and allowing for the larger size, I still maintain the picture of the Sony was far better :rolleyes:
     
  19. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    I guess all one can say to that is the proof is in the pudding not the numbers. See a well setup plasma screen, perhaps to your standard being fed with a dedicated video processing solution, and and you'll soon forget about the hows and whys.
     

Share This Page

Loading...