Hey! I loved those "component stack" things behind the smoked glass!
Hey! I loved those "component stack" things behind the smoked glass!
Not just taste. I have two systems. One sounds best flat. The other can use adjustment with tone controls. Difference in room and speakers. Not just taste.I know it's been said before but surely it's just down to what your tastes are ? Direct on my set up sounds awfully flat and yes I even use loudness although the bass and treble settings are just a little above middle. I have a room to listen in but it's in a real house with real things and a system that only cost £1800 all in. But I love the sound and isn't that what matters ?
There are recording labels who just use a crossed stereo pair straight to Dat and nothing more.Pretty much a silly question. For those purists that think no controls is the way to go because it muddies your signal paths, well sure anytime you add components to a circuit you get more noise and you can get signal loss. So with that thought shouldn't the studio's not use mixing boards and a large array of other forms to shape the sounds they are recording. Maybe guitarists shouldn't use loopers, delay, overdrive, and distortion pedals? I totally agree with the common sense, no snob approach of the author of this article.
Hi Old 45sYou usually find that in this forum (and the S.H. Forum) that the people that say your system doesn't require tone controls are the people who have already outlaid thousands of bucks for Amps with no tone controls and are simply justifying their purchase.. they're simply putting up with no tone controls but (secretly) wish they had them. Of course they'll never admit it!
I personally think marketing has more to do with it.Keith - The main reason that tone controls (and also graphic equalisers) went out of fashion decades ago is simply sound quality.
I do not want to hear the music in "ultimate fidelity".The listener who wants to hear his music in ultimate fidelity will forego this apparently useful feature to maintain the excitement factor of the original performance that was recorded in the studio.
Keith - The main reason that tone controls (and also graphic equalisers) went out of fashion decades ago is simply sound quality. Putting the signal through this additional processing circuit adversely affects the fidelity of the music. With mid-fi equipment (the most likely to feature tone controls) feeding mediocre speakers, the un-critical listener will not realise that some potential sound quality has been lost.
The listener who wants to hear his music in ultimate fidelity will forego this apparently useful feature to maintain the excitement factor of the original performance that was recorded in the studio.
Ultimately the fewer stages of processing circuitry the better, so ideally no tone controls and not even DSP room correction. The latter (and to a certain extent the former) is designed to adjust the sound to correct for poor room acoustics, but far better is to get the room acoustics improved by other means such as speaker placement, use of furniture, carpets and curtains, etc.
If you really feel your room is so bad (or your speakers or even amp) that tone controls or DSP is necessary, don't add these circuits to full-range amps as the top end in particular (the part that conveys the "tingle-factor" in music) is degraded by this unnecessary signal processing. Instead look towards bi-amping and add DSP to the bass amp only. This is the area where room acoustics most spoils the speakers' performance, but leave the much more critical (for ultimate music enjoyment) upper frequency range un-molested by room correction processing.
There’ll be howls of protest at this logical argument from the multitude of Lyngdorf users who have strayed to this forum from the more appropriate AV forum, but all DSPs do add an extra stage of signal processing that should be avoided if possible, particularly the top end. Peter
I personally think marketing has more to do with it.
"Our pre/amp... is so good it doesn't need no stinking tone controls!!"
I do not want to hear the music in "ultimate fidelity".
I want to enjoy the music on my own terms, not based, for example, on "What the artist intended" (how the hell would one know what the artist intended anyway? )
What if :
- the recording is not good?
- the mastering engineer did a poor job?
- my room deadens the sound/bloats the bass
- I have hearing loss in the highs/lows?
Music, like any other form of "art", is mainly meant to trigger emotions.
What if one needs to turn the bass up or tame the treble (or do whatever he/she feels improves their experience) to make the triggering easier or the emotions more pronounced?
Also, I'd be extremely surprised if a well implemented tone control would "degrade" the sound so much that the vast majority of audiophiles could hear a difference in a blind test (same amps, one with tone controls at 0, the other with no tone control).
You're right, Peter, there'll be howls of protest. Unfortunately you are wrong regarding everything else.There’ll be howls of protest at this logical argument from the multitude of Lyngdorf users who have strayed to this forum from the more appropriate AV forum, but all DSPs do add an extra stage of signal processing that should be avoided if possible, particularly the top end. Peter
LOL! All this fuss just to promote your own forum? Really? That's not even funny anymore.Why are the digital downloads we purchase not as good as they could be.
Hi-Fi stereo systems & separates
What you consider to be "music" has been "processed" hundreds of times while creating the "source" you and I are listening to. Analogue ... digital ... whatever ...
The least number of (active?) elements between you LP, CD or download and you speakers does not ensure the most pure listening. Sorry.
You really think that engineers like me are too stupid to separate an instrument from the recording process? Come on, that's plain silly.Truthfully most parts (instruments, vocals etc) can sound terrible in isolation going on to the mix bus because they have be carefully crafted to sit alongside other parts to create the desired whole while maybe enhancing the clarity of each part in that context. Some of the gear we might have used to get there may well be quite shocking to people spending 10s of thousands chasing down their perfect hifi system to listen to it on
Well ... "each contributes to the whole" could be a nice summary of somebody falsely interpreting an amp as a piece of art rather than a piece of engineering. I'm pleased to see that your concept of circuitry goes a little further.Same is true in electronics. I am pretty sure my amp (having examined its schematic) has loads of components you could get away without, but each contributes to the whole in some way often improving the stability and/or precision of such circuits (and balanced signal handling needs to pretty much double up as well). The one exception - the tone circuits - they have bypass relays
LOL! All this fuss just to promote your own forum? Really? That's not even funny anymore.
I feel sad for those who fell for you and I feel very happy about avforums.com removing the link to your pothole.
Apparently so...me are too stupid
I'm sure you didn't mean to say that.... so what annoys me is there is fascistic technology available ...
Did I personally insult you? If so, this wasn't my intention. Fortunately, you can handle it very maturely.Apparently so...
Not to mention obnoxious for no reason.
Glad to hear it... Now, if playing around with these controls gives you a more pleasant listening that's just fine.
Who cares what it does and how it does it if the end result is "a more pleasant listening" for the listener? :/It's just most probably not objectively "improving" the quality of playback. It's just masking unpleasant defects with more pleasant ones.