Who will win the Six Nations?

Discussion in 'Sport' started by ste v p, Feb 6, 2009.

?
  1. Wales

    43 vote(s)
    47.8%
  2. England

    8 vote(s)
    8.9%
  3. France

    4 vote(s)
    4.4%
  4. Ireland

    30 vote(s)
    33.3%
  5. Scotland

    1 vote(s)
    1.1%
  6. Italy

    4 vote(s)
    4.4%
  1. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    morally you won the game , it was England toughset encounter
    Besides the game has moved on and if the ELVs are implemented in toto we shall see far fewer penalties
     
  2. Clunk

    Clunk
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    ...and thus far fewer tries, with teams such as England killing the ball with impunity.
     
  3. Alan_W

    Alan_W
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    Only way for the game to progress is for the refs to make clear to both teams that final warnings are given in the changing room before the game starts.

    Sick of seeing weak refs warning teams time after time and being too lily livered to show the card. England had a final warning and 3 penalties later Tindall had a yellow. Not good enough. Refs also very reluctant to send off more than one player from a team at one time. England only had 2 players carded, but Martin Johnson was nearly right - they should have been down to 14 men for 60 minutes. Ref was not strong enough and that rewarded England's negative cheating tactics. It was as if Wales were playing Leicester :thumbsdow
     
  4. Clunk

    Clunk
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    I don't think anybody really wants to see that anyway do they?




    Least of all Toto.




    And they were munchkins anyway, not ELVS.





    I've gone too far, haven't I?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2009
  5. Steven

    Steven
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    Well they may well be doing it without Henson
     
  6. BrynTeg

    BrynTeg
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    dont need henson
     
  7. Steven

    Steven
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    I do not doubt that. If the story is true be expecting a sincere heartfelt public apology coming to your nearest TV screen soon :)
     
  8. BrynTeg

    BrynTeg
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    yea, my friend's son is a fitness coach with a top magners league side and they know henson well, the man is not spoken highly of.
     
  9. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    I know there is an awful lot of resistance and many dont like the current changes , but for me they have made Super 14 a much more exciting competition to watch and by consequence the tri national teams better and fitter.Too many penalties are a blight on the game IMO
     
  10. Drd

    Drd
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    I couldn't agree more LGS.Where we differ is that you seem to think the ref is responsible,whereas I (and many others) think the players who break the rules and need some punishment are responsible.No foul=no penalty=welsh tries!
     
  11. Clunk

    Clunk
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    Clearly England's world cup was a blight on the game then. ;)

    You don't like penalties? There's a simple answer of course: Stop. Giving. Away. Penalties.

    Regarding the 'free kick for everything' ELV's - you do realise that if defensive ball killing is not properly penalised then it will happen far more, resulting in a far less free flowing game don't you?

    What happens in the S14 bears little resemblance to what happens over here - how the teams approach the game is the difference, and that allows the referee to let it flow (or not) accordingly. S14 rugby was always far more free flowing than (for example) the GP, before any ELV's were brought in due to the brand of rugby played there.

    You want a fast open game? Up the skill & fitness levels and play one. Simple as that.

    Another example (of the laws being less important than the attitude) is the ELV that prevents you passing back into the 22 for tactical kicking to touch. The idea being that it should encourage more running, open, counter attacking rugby rather than a game of chess. The actual result? More aerial ping pong as teams kick to each just outside the opposition 22 and try to force the mistake or conceded territory. If that's faster, free flowing rugby then you can keep it. Give me chess interspersed with moments of individual genius and team brilliance please - that's rugby.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  12. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    England took full advantage of the laws as existed then and rode their luck,period! That was then this is now .Fact is SH teams are much fitter because they have to be to in order to compete.Bring the rest of he laws in and our boys will improve their fitness too , fat boys will be a thing of the past and they will be as lean and fit as the league boys
    S14 was always faster because the sponsors expected it and the grounds are more conducive to playing,There is no doubt in my mind that more tap and goes and less penalties will make the game faster and improve skills even in bad conditions.
     
  13. Clunk

    Clunk
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    Absolutely. As good teams will do under any laws - they'll play to their strengths and away from their weaknesses. If their strengths are disrupting and slowing the game down... well.
    Fact is SH teams were always better equipped to compete because they were much fitter. Ummm... you do realise the new laws won't make England fitter, faster and more skillful. Cart before the horse there methinks. The Tri Nations were always fitter and more skilled than the home nations since before professionalism kicked in. That said, teams like Wales are finally catching up. Did you see the way Wales played in the 2005 6N? Lot's of tap and goes, hitting space and offloading everything. That was under the old laws you know. A game based on newfound higher fitness and skill levels, and a desire to play open rugby. It wasn't too sustainable in itself mind - and thankfully Wales now have a more complete game and can play it fast and loose or slug it out, depending on how the opposition approach the game.

    I'll say it again though: it's teams killing the ball and playing negatively that slows the game down, not the penalty or free kick that results. The penalty is a greater deterrant than a free kick.

    Then there's nothing more I can do for you. Let's hope for your sake that Martin Johnson feels differently, so England can improve because they want to. Cutting down the pie intake would be a Goode place to start...
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  14. ste v p

    ste v p
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    Well, there's been a lot of discussion since I last came to this thread....

    My thoughts on the Wales England game:

    Tindall deserved his sin-bin. Goode was harshly dealt with and personally I think the isolated Halfpenny should have been penalised for holding on ratehr than Goode binned for killing the ball.

    There were also other occasions where Wales killed English quick ball (this is not a contradiction in terms :D) which IMO could have been yellows but were not given. However I don't want to moan to much...

    Wales played some good rugby and generally won the "kicking tennis" exchanges. England kicked poorly. Wales closed out the game extremely effectively in a very professional manner and this was impressive. England still have a lot of work to do on their rucking. Far too often the ruck becomes overpopulated with forwards which just slows the ball down. The second row lacks dynamism and Borthwick wouldn't make my starting 15 let alone be captain.

    Finally, I'm sick and tired of hearing the words "building for the future" or "in a rebuilding phase". It's an excuse for losing. Often the real reasons for losing are in the lack of desire to compete and epecting things to happen because it's "someone else's job". Against Italy, England looked like they thought it was all sewn up and the win would just happen. Fortunately it did. Against Wales, the attitude was improved but ultimately the Welsh played a more professional game. Sin binnings or not, they deserved their win.
     
  15. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    What i am suggesting is that the new laws will force players to improve both fitness and skill levels if they want compete and whilst I agree Wales have been adopting a more fluid approach the likes og Quins and Bath have been doing very much the same thing, playing space as B Ashton always advocated instead of the tedious pick and drive favoured by Leicester.
    Brian Smith is another who favours the tap and go /offload in contact areas when its on approach and i believe his methods are beginning to bear fruit as evidenced by two excellent tries.
    All Jonno needs to do now is bite the bullet, drop Borthwick and bring Shaw , give the captaincy to Easter and replace "who ate all the pies" Goode with Cipriani.We will then have the makings of a very good team
    I believe we have a considerable pool of talent, The Saxons proved that.Just need to get the coaching( Wells please go) right .i am more optimistic now than back in November
     
  16. huwg

    huwg
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    :smashin:

    I have to say I agree with you on that, but whether Johnson has the balls to do so is another question.
    By picking more young players there is always the chance that the results will get worse whilst the team gels and settles in. As long as the press accept that and don't expect instant results then that should set you up for a good few years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  17. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    he'll find it difficult to drop Borthwick after building him up in the autumn,but he does, I believe, have the balance in the second row wrong.Shaw is much better in broken play and provides much needed grunt too.Pity about his age though.
    Cips is slowly getting back to his best form and i fully expect to see him back in the squad
     
  18. Steven

    Steven
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    Cipriani will be back in the fourth squad earliest, and that is an if

    I can see him doing without for the third game and see whether the positives out of the Welsh game, cut out the stupid things and get a result. If a result is gained I see no reason to reinstate Cipriani
     
  19. Drd

    Drd
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    Oooops!!

    To be fair,that was one hell of a French performance.


    Game on:D
     
  20. Steven

    Steven
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    Well that's put a different complexion upon things :laugh:
     
  21. BrynTeg

    BrynTeg
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    hmm indeed, cant see england beating ireland so it may well go too the final match
     
  22. Synchronicity

    Synchronicity
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    Terrible performance from Wales, how many mistakes did they make?:(

    Nearly pulled it back in the end but TBH Wales deserved to lose that big time, proper rubbish.Their defence swayed from solid as a rock to absolutley shocking, and they set a new president for moving backwards when in posession :(

    I still dont understand why Hook does not get played more.

    Please do us a favour and keep Henson the bell end permanently on the bench:lease:
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  23. Alan_W

    Alan_W
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    Wales were indeed awful, but France were magnifique.

    Hook does not controll the game enough and kicks away possession poorly. Don't understand why Peel was not brought on earlier.......after about 10-15 mins really

    Cant understand why Henson is in the squad. :confused: Not match fit and just seems to attract trouble.
     
  24. plazmoid

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    I didn't realise this game was on until i stumbled upon it while scrolling through the channels and wow were france amazing. they played superbly and it was a fantastic game of rugby.

    I am glad to Scotland win today, and win well. was seriously impressed with how well scotland played today and i am now believing that we can spring an upset agianst Ireland and throw the competition wide open and i think we can beat England just because of the fact that they are getting so many folk sin binned. There have been so many that i have lost count!!
     
  25. Alan_W

    Alan_W
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    But only because the refs are all biased and unfair and the rules need to be changed because winning on penalties is not right and they are not dirty just misunderstood and all these yellows are so wrong and just you wait until Jonny is better he will show you how to kick penalties and dropgoals and things and then you will all be sorry :rolleyes:
     
  26. plazmoid

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    Biased my backside! the england players just need to realise that dirty tricks are being cut out of the game. Got to feel sorry for martin johnson as he was so livid with the 2nd yellow yesterday. There's not really much else he can do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  27. Alan_W

    Alan_W
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  28. Steven

    Steven
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    Having had the pleasure of meeting the man... well you wouldn't as he is huge :laugh:
     
  29. Mylo

    Mylo
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    Glad my lot managed to beat Italy this year :rotfl: would maybe have given up watching otherwise.
     
  30. CLH

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    Because he has skill in spades.

    Go to iplayer. Have a look around the 71-72 minute mark for the tackle he takes whilst dishing out the blind take and give.

    FWIW I was sat directly in line at 78 minutes. He could have made that pass IMO. He's one of the only people who could have. But we should never have been in the position that we were for him to be so publically roasted.
     

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