white steed and armour required...!

Discussion in 'Satellite TV, Sky TV & FreeSat' started by noddingdino, May 31, 2004.

  1. noddingdino

    noddingdino
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    desperately seeking a knight in shining armour...that or a sky guru...either will do ;)

    Problem:

    Push Sky digital from the lounge to a bedroom and family room...

    Background:


    We've just moved into a new house, and have had Sky installed, i would like to use the ariel point in the lounge to 'feed' the ariel points in the other two rooms with Sky.

    I currently have the RF2 of my Grundig digibox connected to the lounge ariel socket using coax. This is plugged into a 5-1000MHz T in the loft (input), where I have also connected the other two coax cables (family room/bedroom) as the outputs.

    I am getting a VERY weak signal (mostly snow, but i can just make out the sky guide screen), so something is coming through, but it's obviously unwatchable!

    I tried using a multimeter to test for the 9v on the feed, but presume that this only occurs when the remote is in use...so got nowhere checking that i have the right cable going into thue T as the source, but have re-cabled all other possibilities and don't get anywhere...?

    I'm new to this game, so have a couple of questions...and if anyone can suggest something else, please shout!

    1. Do I need a signal amplifier? I estimate the outward leg (source to T) at approx 40' and the same for the return...

    2. Does the T have to be something special? I bought mine from Maplins and is an all metal one with 5-1000MHz printed on the label?

    any help GREATLY APPRECIATED I have been trying to sort this for a few weeks now and am getting really fed up with it!!! Thanks in advance :thumbsup:

    (mods if this is in the wrong place - please feel free to move - I had a similar thread in home automation section (it went a bit off it's original topic) but this has gone quiet now and figured that this was the best place for a new thread!)
     
  2. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    OK first thiongs first set Sky RF output to a clean RF channel one where TV finds nowt.
    now aerial piont in louhne where does it go? To aerial or to box? if to box it may need changing to different tap/outlet normally, 2 RF feeds are needed for thisaerial to Combiner, RF2 Sky to combiner combiner to amp, amp to TV's including main TV with sky. Known as "feed and return" trying to pass TV down and sat with remote up 1 RF lead is full of issues! Channel plus and Televes make good DTT ditribution kit.

    Any more help LMK.
     
  3. noddingdino

    noddingdino
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    Thanks for the quick reply hornydragon...

    the aerial point in the lounge runs from the socket through the wall up to the loft, it's a brand new house, so when i first poked my head up i found three bare cable ends...i worked out which was the one from the lounge to use as the feed...i don't have (and don't intend to use) a 'normal' TV aerial.

    so now that i've had a play around, the lounge cable goes into the input socket on the T (in the loft), and the family room/bedroom go into the two output sockets of the T. I have plugged the RF2 from the digibox into the lounge socket.

    when i bought the bits from Maplin, the 'helpful' guy said that i needed a bypass kit which i also bought so that i could use an eye to change channel from ONE of the other TVs...i haven't attempted to use this yet...!

    am not sure what this means...!!! (excuse a n00b!) :smashin:
     
  4. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Your sky box allows you to set the channel allocation of the output, a number from 21-69 try setting it to a different number and retune other channels, are you using F-connectors? (screw fit like those found on dish input to sky box)?

    L22AG BUY 1: SLx Booster 2w In Stock 19.99
    Looks like the kit for the job if no aerial feed is to be used! Strange setup!

    This is a passive version which i would not reconmend for long runs!
    QQ69A BUY 1: 2 Way F Splitter In Stock 4.99
     
  5. noddingdino

    noddingdino
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    just a quick couple of questions...!

    F connectors...? I don't think so, the only extra cabling I now have is a coax fly lead that runs from the RF2 to the aeriel socket on the lounge wall... (should I be doing something with these??!?!?!?!?)

    You've suggested a signal amplifier, does this mean that I will get significant signal degradation over a run of this length...enough to present me with the symptoms I'm getting?

    chanel allocation - just out of curiosity, what effect might changing this have?

    (strange setup...? just to clarify :) new house...moneys a bit tight, so it was cheaper to get a sky dish installed rather than paying for a TV aeriel...to be honest, unless i get poor service from sky, then i'll be quite happy to muddle along without the aeriel for a little while yet!)

    thanks for your continued help! chuck the horse an extra bail of hay from me! :smashin:
     
  6. noddingdino

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    ^^ bump ^^
     
  7. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    sorry been away with work mate and hotel networks are extortinate!
    how did you connect the bare cables in loft together? are any VCRs in the systems
     
  8. noddingdino

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    no need to apologise (i know all about hotel prices!!!) :)

    OK...loft cables...i put a coax plug on the feed, and coax sockets onto the 2 others (bedroom/family room) ...then plugged it all together using the T piece.

    i do have a vcr which is connected to the digibox using a scart lead...
     
  9. Fernsehman

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    Satellite cable loses about 1.5dB every 10 metres at UHF. So after 20 metres half of your signal (3dB) has been lost. I wouldn't use "ordinary" TV cable, but, if that's what you are stuck with, the losses will be higher. An amplifier can be used to nullify these losses. Use a "skylink compatible" amplifier if you plan to use the remote control in a bedroom. (A "Y" splitter can't be used to pass remote control signals - not even with a "bypass" device).

    As there are so many factors to take into account you might like to download a book that has all the info. "Piping TV Around the House" from the satcure site will tell you all you need to know.
     
  10. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    I recon mend a distribution amp using F connectors if possible, much more solidconnection!
     
  11. noddingdino

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    Hi Fernsehman,

    nothing is ever easy is it!!! thanks for the advice, i really am new to this game, and am gratefully taking all the help i can get! So far i have spent £70.00 on video senders that didn't work...and something in the region of £35.00 on bits and peices from Maplins to try and get TV piped to my other two rooms...i have taken a look at the satcure site, and the book looks interesting, although i am worried that it wouldn't give me all the info i need...(?) i really don't want to spend any more mone unnecessarily!

    i have a couple of questions from your post...

    1. Is a Y the same as T ?
    2. Will the bypass (which i bought on recommendation from the chap at Maplin) work with a T (or is it a Y ?!?!?!?!? :suicide: )?
     
  12. noddingdino

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    hornydragon...i take it i can use f connectors on the coax cable...does anyone have a diag to show me how to connect them to the cable?

    do we all think that an amplifier should do the trick... Fernsehman suggests a 50% degradation over 20m which would explain the VERY weak signal across 35/40m? if so i'll drop by maplins later this afternoon...!
     
  13. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Fconnectors are a screw fit same as is used by sky dish and box. maplin sell the for 90p ish much better connection. If amp doesnt work (mwke sure you get digital compatible one) then a call out will be required. Local Sky/Aerial guys are usually good.
     
  14. noddingdino

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    can't say fairer than that! thanks for all your help people...i'll leave you all in peace!

    note - if any sky/aeriel people in the kettering area read this - mail or pm me!
     
  15. noddingdino

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    OK...i thought i was all done and then when I actually started to think about it i came up with another question....and I'm afraid that this one sounds a bit daft even to me!!! so play nice! ;)

    I am going to buy a powered amplifier and was going to put it in the loft, but this will mean that i need to put a power socket up there...SO, can i put the amplifier BETWEEN the RF2 of the digibox and the lounge wall socket - presumably increasing the signal strength right at the very start? or does it have to go in the loft?

    answer this one and i promise to leave you all alone!!!

    :lease:
     
  16. Fernsehman

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    I don't blame you but I read somewhere they guarantee the book will save you money - anyway there's a money back guarantee which I assume they'll honour.
     
  17. noddingdino

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    anyone give me a clue as to where i can locate the signal amplifier?

     
  18. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Think about this your self mate: in loft you have 3 cables, 1 feed from Sky and 2 taps to TV's YES?if so how do you amplify signal going into those two taps?














    Basically either will work but better in loft. have you no power inloft? not even a light bulb?
     
  19. noddingdino

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    'thanks' for the reply hornydragon...i posted because i'd had a think and still wasn't sure of the answer!

    i seem to have two options.

    1. Amplify the signal at source so that there is n times more signal being pushed up to the loft

    or...

    2. Amplify in the loft so that i am 'bulking up' an already degraded signal...

    i guess i could go out and just buy the bits and give it a go...but until now have a box full and no working TV's!!!!!

    i just wanted a bit of hand holding!
     
  20. sinbrad

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    I've been reading this thread with interest and thought I would give my input. I'm not a pro but like to fiddle! Anyway you seem to have spent a lot of cash and got nothing for it. Remember if you have an amplifier you are going to amplify whatever signal is going into it, so if you put the amplifier as close to the source as possible you will get the best picture, if you decide to put the amplifier in your loft where the signal is already degraded then your going to amplify that degraded signal making it worse not better. If I were you I would get hold of a portable television and take it up into the loft along with a mains extension lead and connect the cable that you think is sending the signal from your lounge. By doing this you can see if you are getting a good signal from your lounge to the portable vice t-piece, y-piece. If you are not getting a good signal then it could be down to the cable run? I have had various runs plumbed around the house of quite a length without amps and have still achieved a good picture on a distant television. I can't believe that a run of your calculated length would degrade the picture that bad that it's not watchable. Good luck
     
  21. noddingdino

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    thanks so much for the tips sinbrad...i was beginning to think that i had outstayed my welcome! your right about the cash but it's more the time that's annoyed me - everytime i think it's going to work it doesn't!

    i will jump in with an amplifier and see what happens...keep your fingers crossed! :smashin:
     
  22. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    If nooise is the problem the above statement is true!
    If it is line loss it doesnt work quite the same.
     
  23. RichardP

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    If you are splitting the output signal from the Sky box then you should place a multiple output amplifier at the point that you are splitting the signal. Simply splitting the signal results in a huge amount of signal loss on top of any cable loss you already have. So in your case you should place the amplifier in the loft, you will have to find some source of power. Some allow you to have a remote power supply that will feed the amplifier via the input signal cable, much in the same way that the Sky LBM is powered, with one of these you could have the power supply at the same location as the Sky box..

    To check that your cables are wired correctly you could try just connecting up one of the other inputs, just connect the input cable of the Y (or T) piece to one of the output cables. You should get at least a reasonable picture in one of the other rooms.

    From your description I suspect that your input cable is incorrect and you are driving the splitter the wrong way round, i.e. you have the input going into one of the outputs and one of the outputs as the input. Another good reason to check the wiring by connecting the input and one, and then the other, output together.
     
  24. noddingdino

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    as part of this ongoing saga, i recabled in all possible variations, and the original way is the only time that i get a picture (you really can't call it that!)...i have bought an amplifier today (the one recommended by hornydragon) and will try it first of all between the digibox and the lounge socket...if this gives me nothing...then...after tearing my hair out...i'll see if i can grab some power in the loft and try it immediately before the T(Y?)

    thanks for the comments RichardP and welcome to the boards! :smashin:
     
  25. sinbrad

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    I've been keeping an eye on all your posts and am surprised that for the same original problem and all the help you've received you have still not been able to come to a satisfacory resolution. Is there something that we are missing here or that you are not telling us which makes this so difficult to resolve?
     
  26. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Still no joy?
     
  27. noddingdino

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    OK people...I have some good news and some bad news...!

    I tried the amp (the one HD recommended) inbetween the RF2 out of the digibox and the lounge socket...checked the TV in the family room, and although a marginally (squint at 30 feet away) better picture - still nothing watchable...

    so i tried plugging it in between the wall socket and the TV in the family room...not a sausage...

    went into the loft and plugged it in (rf2 out as feed...output to family room)...went back downstairs to see a much better picture than before, I now had colour and sound - but still a very snowy picture :(

    as a last ditch attempt, I took the TV out of the family room and lugged it upstairs to our main bedroom (you will remember from the beginning of this saga that there is a socket in there too)...swapped the cables around in the loft and BINGO a perfect picture!!!

    so we have half of the problem solved...it was obviously too far for the signal to travel without any degradation...do you think that if I get another single output amp and plug it in between the socket and the TV in the family room, it will boost the picture enough to make it watchable?

    NEARLY THERE !!! :clap:
     
  28. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Good stuff mate you will get there eventually.
     
  29. noddingdino

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    do you think that the addition of an amp downstairs (family room) will do any good?

    it would then go something like this:

    RF2 Out --> LONG COAX --> AMP --> LONG COAX --> AMP -->TV

    as far as i can see...this is the only hope i have left - or are you guys hiding some 'under the counter' options? ;)
     
  30. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Proper distribution amps £100+ mate so budget soltion is giv it a go also try with both amps RF2>amp>coax>amp>Coax>TV as well
     

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