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Which widescreen set?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by RonMac, Nov 15, 2003.

  1. RonMac

    RonMac
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    I wonder if anyone in this Forum could give me some advice on buying a new television set. This will be my first widescreen tele. A 28inch model will be quite sufficient for our living room. The only widescreen set I have watched through several programs is that which my son has. His is a Thomson 28WR25. The picture on my sons set was very good indeed. But he was getting his signal off cable, whereas mine will be by aerial from terrestrial transmissions. Prices vary, but at around £270 this set seems to have everything I need at near enough my price. I have sought out this set online and found it at Comet where comprehensive specifications are listed. Here I learn that the set has two SCART sockets and that one of these is an RGB SCART socket. Looking at the specs for other sets offered I find many state that, although the sets have two and sometimes three SCART sockets, an RGB SCART socket is not available. Both my current VCR and DVD player are connected to my, now 15 year old tele, by SCART cables, through a SCART connecting box. The DVD player manual refers to its SCART cable as carrying an RGB signal. Would I be correct in assuming that those television sets which do not have RGB SCART sockets cannot take signals from my existing DVD player and VCR by SCART cables? Most TVs offered by Comet have an S-video socket as does my DVD player. But I will still need a usable SCART connection (RGB?) from my VCR. I cannot afford a new VCR as well as a tele!
    Any comments and recommendations will be much appreciated.
     
  2. simon1

    simon1
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    All widescreen set will have at least 2x scart sockets. Some have 3x, and the expensive ones, sometimes 4x.

    A scart socket can be configured to accept either COMPOSITE, S-VIDEO, or RGB.

    Composite - Avg quality pic

    S-Video - Better quality pic

    RGB - Even better quality

    All scart sockets accept and output composite signals by default, whether it be a tv, a vcr, sky box, dvd, games console. Its the LAW (so to speak).

    On most tv's, you will find that one of the scart sockets will also accept RGB in addition to the poorer composite signal. The tv may also accept an S-video signal through one of the other scart sockets.

    "Looking at the specs for other sets offered I find many state that, although the sets have two and sometimes three SCART sockets, an RGB SCART socket is not available." -

    I think you may be mis-understanding. I can only imagine that only the very cheapest/nastiest makes would not have an RGB capable scart socket.

    Sony as an example might quote this in the specs for a tv:

    Scart 1 - RGB in
    Scart 2 - S-video in
    Scart 3 - S-video in

    All 3 sockets will also accept composite signals by default, as this is the basic connection of all types of AV equipment.

    Assuming you don't have Freeview, Cable or Sky, you would connect your dvd player to scart 1 (as this is RGB capable) and your vcr to scart 2/3 (using bog standard composite signal).

    As I said earlier, composite is the most basic type of signal. And all AV equipment uses this. So even a 14yr old tv (with scart) with or without RGB would work with your dvd player.

    An S-video (sometimes known as SVHS) socket is different to an S-video capable scart. The former is usually found at the front or side of a tv set, behind a flap. It looks like a smaller version of the old DIN sockets found on hifi equipment. The idea of having this type of socket on the front or side of the tv is for quick, convienient connection of a hiband camcorder like SVHS or HI8.

    Although your dvd player may have exactly the same type of socket as this, it's not ideal to connect it like this. Firstly, you'd have a cable trailing to the front/side of tv, secondly you'd lose the auto-switching capability that you get with scart.

    Some, but not all dvd players will output S-video signal through their scart socket to the appropriate scart on a tv. This won't be a major concern for you, as you should connect it using RGB.

    If you did have cable, freeview or Sky, you would probably want to connect that to the RGB capable socket and use S-video for the dvd player.

    I hope I have cleared things up for you.



    Simon
     
  3. Elgreco

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    When I enquired of Comet about the tv only having 2 scarts when I need the guy said no problem we'll give you a scart splitter, wouldn't this affect the quality?
     
  4. RonMac

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    Very many thanks, Simon. You have gone to a great deal of trouble to explain about the SCART connections. Very much appreciated.

    I have one other query I've thought of since writing my original questions. Any new TV I get will be a stereo model. My 14 year old tv (and it is!!) is mono. MY DVD player has the usual several options for audio: feed to a conventional stereo amp, or a feed to variations of a Dolby system. I use the former. But I don't know whether my VCR's SCART feed to my tele is carrying the audio in stereo. If not, I suppose I'll need a new VCR!

    Nowhere in my VCR's manual does the word stereo appear. The VCR is about 5 years old. Is it likely that its audio out is stereo by default. That stereo is the norm and not worth mentioning? If not, is there test I can make to find out if my VCR is sending out a stereo signal?

    I have a SCART splitter. I also happen to have a SCART adaptor which will let me feed the audio to the left and right input RCA sockets on my amp. So I can take the VCR's audio to my stereo amplifier. But how to tell if the signal is actually stereo, or just mono in both channels. I have a DVD of the film Space Cowboys. In the opening sequence a jet flies from left to right with great stereo effect! If I had something similar on a video tape it might answer my query. Or is there a more positive test I can make?
     
  5. RonMac

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    Hi Simon,

    Since asking the above questions about whether my old VCR outputs stereo, I think I've found the answer: it doesn't! This from browsing Comet's site. There stereo VCRs are specifically stated as stereo or mono. It looks like I'm going to have to get another VCR, especially If I want to be able to record in 16:9 format.

    Cheers,

    RonMac
     
  6. simon1

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    Hi Ron

    Glad you appreciated the help.

    Using scart spliters/adapters will degrade the quality to some extent and they are capable of introducing signal problems. I personally hate them.

    You answered your own question re the Stereo vcr. What you were doing was outputing double mono, rather than stereo. Most if not all Stereo vcrs/Stereo tvs will have phono sockets (small round - coloured white + red) specifically for audio output to amps, hifis, etc. Stereo is also usually outputed via scart sockets too.

    If you are going to replace you video, can I suggest you consider buying TIVO instead. In my honest opinion, its the best piece of AV equipment to have been invented in the last 20 years. Tivo uses Nicam Stereo like modern vcr do. Instead of using tapes, Tivo records programmes onto a hard drive and will record between 12 -40 hours (depending what quality selected). It can playback at the sametime as recording, so you dont have to wait for it to have completed the recording before you can start watching it.

    For instance; you've set it to record 'Corronation Street' at 19:30 because you were doing late night shopping. Yet get back home at 19:38 and can view it staight away from the begining. When the adverts arrive half way through, it takes 5 or 6 seconds to whizz through them using the 'ad skip' button. Because of the time you've saved, you've completed the viewing by 20:01 - just in time to see the opening credits of the following programme you wanted to watch.

    Instead of programming Tivo like a vcr (only setting the timer when you know your going to be out), Just set all your favourite programmes as a 'Season Pass' - you only set one programme once, as Tivo looks at the tv guide data and records it every time its on. It doesn't matter if the programme is normally shown on a Wednesday, but the broadcaster shows it a day early - Tivo will still record it.

    Tivo also records programmes it thinks you might like, based on the sorts of programmes you usually record and your 'thumbs up' prefferences. These are called suggestions. When stuck in front of the tv with nothing interesting to watch, I've found programmes that Tivo recorded itself, usually in the middle of the night. They have turned out to be some really interesting programmes wish I would have never have known about, because I don't generally read through the tv guide 01:00 -
    07:00.

    You can also Pause live television for upto 30 minutes, which is very handy for answering the phone, making tea/coffee or going to the loo. No longer are you tied to the tv shedule.

    I've had both my Tivo's about 18 months now and couldn't live without them. You can take the dvd player, the games console, the cd player, the freeview channels. You can even take my mobile phone from me, BUT not my TIVO!

    I remember my wife playing hell with me when I first bought it. But just one month after, she wouldn't part with it.

    For more information take a look at Tivo Community Forum and check the demo at Tivo.co.uk .

    Tivo will cost you £10 a month or £200 one off fee to get all its benefits. This is hard for most if not all people to justify, but once you've tried it you'll see. Think of it as paying for extra channels. Yeah, you're not getting extra channels - but you're getting more programmes that YOU want to watch when YOU want to watch.

    Because Tivo isn't manufactured anymore (don't be put off by this - it's still very well supported), you can only buy from ebay.

    Cost will be around £200 for the box + your £10 a month/£200 one off fee. This is half of what they cost in the shops originally.

    If you want advice on buying from Ebay or any more info, just PM me.

    Remember VHS video is old hat.
     
  7. RonMac

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    HI Simon,

    Again, many thanks for another very interesting posting.

    Tivo. Curiously your recommendation is not the first I’ve read this week. I subscribe to the magazine Computer Active and the current issue carries a feature on hard disk recorders. And of Tivo they write: “If you can find a Tivo snap it up immediately. You won’t regret it for an instant.” They also note that in the US there is TiVo 2.

    I remember seeing a Tivo in the window of our local TV and radio shop. It must have been three or more years ago and this grey box caught my eye simply because it had no knobs or slots on the front. Just a remote lying beside it. So I read the accompanying blurb and was intrigued but didn’t think it was for me. And to be honest I still don’t, in spite of your glowing recommendation.

    I’m only too well aware that VHS is old hat. I’ve had a DVD player some 18 months now and really appreciate the quality I get from DVDs compared to your average VHS recording.

    I am 73 and a life long film fan. Apart from the occasional crime series, films are just about all I watch on the box.

    Before VHS changed my viewing life in the early 80s I was a regular at our local bug-house ’collecting’ films in memory! I also had an excellent 16mm projector: an Elf, with additional lenses to give me widescreen and cinemascope. This provided the projection for our local film club. Then, almost overnight, VCRs appeared and killed off the film club and I sold my projector, lenses, screens, etc. to the local Tech.

    If money was no object I’d certainly go after a Tivo or one of the other PVRs. But how would I play the 150 odd feature films I’ve got on VHS video, many in widescreen and stereo which I’ve never been able to do justice to until now. Not to mention all the 50 minute editions of “Only Fools and Horses”, most of “Dad’s Army”, the whole production run of the cop show “Between the Lines”, most of the Inspector Frost series and many one-off dramas.

    Recordable DVD is a tantalising thought, but for the present there are too many questions here. Which system will win out? Burning data to CDs on my computer is an inexact science, how much more so is DVD burning likely to be!

    I pay a scant £18 a month to Mailbox Movies. This tariff rents me DVDs in batches of three. When I’ve played them I return the batch and I’m sent the next three DVDs on my list of selected films. The system works a treat. A few of the DVDs freeze and skip during play. Initially this worried me, but now I know to sit through it. If the problem is really persistent it can usually be sorted by taking out the disc and vigorously cleaning it. Out of 30 rented discs I’ve only returned 4 as unplayable and been sent replacements. These problems could all too easily mar home DVD recording. At least VHS recording is pretty well foolproof. And I suspect I shall depart this world before my tape recordings fade away!!

    At the beginning of your last posting you mentioned one or two other things which I found very interesting. Your comment that SCART splitters will degrade the signal. I’m sure you are right. The more plugs and sockets there are in a line carrying signals the more losses there must be. At present I have little option. My old tele has only one SCART socket. As I cannot connect my DVD player through the VCR I have 2 SCART cables arriving at the back of my TV. The splitter here has a switch on the link from the VCR, so I can cut any stray signals which may be coming from the video when I’m playing a DVD. I have another splitter at the VCR’s output; one SCART cable going to the TV and the other giving me the phono connection to my amplifier. So I was very interested to read your note that most stereo TVs will have phono sockets for connection to stereo amps. Now I know they should be there I will certainly look for TVs with these sockets.

    Most of my DVD and video watching is late in the evening after my wife (not a film fan) has gone to bed. So I listen with a headset. In another posting, if you’re interested I can pass on what I’ve discovered about headsets and improving their performance.

    Cheers,

    Ronald
     
  8. simon1

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    Hi Ron

    Perhaps Tivo is not for you, or perhaps it is. What about the Mrs? What does she enjoy? She may miss programmes on late at night that she would otherwise enjoy. The truth is you only find out after using it for a couple of weeks how it changes your viewing habits. It is easier than operating a vcr. No tapes to FF or Rew, and you have every programme listed by name that has been recorded (complete with description, so you can deside whether its worth watching). Most people, including me and the wife very rarely watch live tv after having Tivo. Almost everything has been recorded and viewed at our leisure.

    I appreciate your point about your collection of tapes, but there's nothing to stop you using a vcr in conjunction with Tivo. In fact, Tivo has been designed to work with vcrs and has a scart socket dedicated for connection to a vcr. This means you only need one scart socket on the tv to be able to play back both vcr and Tivo. You can also archive recorded programs that you wish to keep from Tivo to your vcr very simply.


    I wonder if you are connecting the tv to your hifi simply to be able to have a headphone facility or to have the tv sound the hifi's loadspeakers - but most stereo tvs have a headphone jack at the front of the set.


    Good luck picking a new set.


    Simon
     
  9. RonMac

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    A quickie question!

    In your first answer to my query re-which widescreen set you wrote that: "All SCART sockets accept and output composite signals by default . . . " And in your second posting you wrote: "Stereo is usually outputed via SCART sockets too."

    As I wrote last time, most of my film viewing is late evening, after wife has gone to bed. Sound output to speakers would be unsociable! But there is another need for headphone use: I am partially deaf. I've had defective hearing most of my life. Basically a high frequency loss.

    I feed the audio signal to my headset in two ways. For live TV and video playback I take the audio signal from the VCR using a SCART splitter to a handheld (battery powered) mono amp and so to a headset. The use of the amplifier in an old radio/cassette player was an experiment to see if my VCR was out putting a stereo signal. It wasn't! From the DVD player stereo audio is delivered by way of the red and white phono connection to a (mains powered) headphone amplifier, thence via a little (battery powered) equaliser 'floating' on the headset cable to a superb (and very pricey) in ear Sony headset.

    Tomorrow I go looking for a new TV and video. So to my query. Are all SCART sockets input and output at the same time? Thus dependent on the use to which they are put. If the widescreen stereo TV I like doesn't have phono sockets for audio output to stereo amps, can I take this signal off any spare SCART socket using my SCART to phono adaptor? Or is this a dream too far!!

    Finally, I take on board all you say about Tivo. But a new TV and video is going to leave little out of £400. My wife, in spite of her soap viewing will not stomach any more raiding of the coffers! Christmas or no Christmas!!!

    Cheers,

    Ronald
     
  10. simon1

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    To clear up the scart input business -

    On a tv, at least one of the two or three scart sockets will output sound/video. This is in addition to accepting an input of sound/video through the very same socket.

    Same with vcrs. Most, if not all stereo machines will have two scart sockets. One is input/output. The other is usually dedicated for input only.

    Both your new tv and your new vcr will almost certainly feature 'phono' sockets at the rear. These are for audio output in stereo.

    There should be no need to connect individual components (ie tv, vcr, dvd) to your headphone setup. Just connect the tv phono sockets to your headphone setup. Because you will have the dvd and vcr connected to the tv with scart cables, these are feeding the tv with stereo sound.

    Hence, whatever you're watching, be it dvd, vcr, live tv - you will hear it in stereo through your headphones.

    "Tomorrow I go looking for a new TV and video. So to my query. Are all SCART sockets input and output at the same time? Thus dependent on the use to which they are put. If the widescreen stereo TV I like doesn't have phono sockets for audio output to stereo amps, can I take this signal off any spare SCART socket using my SCART to phono adaptor? Or is this a dream too far!!"

    Quite often on modern tvs, you can (by adjustment in an on-screen menu) tell the tv what to output via its scart socket. You could have it output whatever is actually on the screen, or output what is connected to the 2nd or 3rd scart socket. A tv without this facility just outputs whatever is on the screen.

    I would be very surprised if your new tv doesn't have phono sockets (red + white) for outputing its audio. As I said before, this is the best way to connect for audio.

    All tv models should output the audio via the sockets at a fixed level (tv volume control does not affect it). The only exception to this is some Sony models, which have an unusual way of outputing sound requiring you to turn off the tvs internal speakers each time you switch the tv back on. Some forum members have found this very annoying.


    Hope this has helped.


    Simon
     
  11. RonMac

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    Hi Simon,

    I reckoned it was about time we switched this correspondence to email. But I’ve just discovered you don’t want to receive emails from strange men! I don’t blame you. I’m pretty paranoid myself about emails whose addresses I don’t recognise!

    So I tried to PM you. Only to be told my message was about 1400 characters too long. So back to the ranch . . . !!

    I am now the proud owner of a 28inch widescreen Daewoo with a matching Daewoo video. This afternoon my wife and I lugged this monster home. After a while with the manual, which is pretty comprehensive (and, for a change, all written in English!) I hooked it up through its video and asked it to auto-tune itself. Which it has done and the picture is wonderful.

    We had intended sitting it on our old TV table, but as soon as we settled the monster on the table its legs went all of a quiver! So tomorrow we’re off back to the shop for a dedicated Daewoo stand.

    I haven’t got around to tuning in the video yet. That can wait ‘till the set is in its permanent home in the corner of our lounge.

    Now I have one more query, for now!!! As you so rightly said in your last post, both the TV and the VCR have phono sockets. On the TV they are at the front behind a flap covering these and several other sockets, including S-video and headphones, stand-by light and a whole row of buttons whose use I haven’t discovered as yet. The phono sockets are also at the front on the VCR. Both manuals inform me that these phono sockets are to be used in conjunction with a camcorder to input the audio at the same time as the video is fed in by way of the S-video socket. Neither booklet suggests these phono connections can be used to output audio as you suggest. I can but try and see if any signal comes out!

    Cheers,

    Ronald
     
  12. simon1

    simon1
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    Hi Ron,

    Its common for forum members not to have the email address listed here. Thats why we have a PM facility. You could have emailed a brief message and asked me to respond to your email address, and I'd have been happy to supply my email address.

    It nothing against you personally.

    Anyway, you've managed to get lost in the wealth of information. The phono sockets at the front of both the vcr and tv are indeed INPUTS.

    I've had a quick look at Daewoo's website to see if I could find out for you - but it is limited in the details it provides on there.

    Hopefully, the tv will have phono sockets at the rear, from which you can output the sound. If not, then use one of the scart sockets to output the sound. Refer to the tv manual to see which scart provides an output.

    It doesn't matter if the vcr has phono sockets at the rear, as you don't need these.


    I hope you are pleased with your purchase.

    If you need further assistance, then PM me with your email addreess.


    Simon
     
  13. Choddo

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    I don't want to get in the way of this long term friendship forming ;) but don't forget to change your DVD player output to RGB, as it's probably only sending composite to the TV at the moment. You might also find that a new cheap DVD player (amazon.co.uk seem to have a job lot of decent multiregion Pioneers & Toshibas for about £90) may help with your freezing problems on some disks. Some players are far more tolerant of dodgy disks than others.

    Enjoy the new toys.
     
  14. RonMac

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    Hi Choddo

    Many thanks for your suggestion re-changing the DVD to RGB. Mine is pretty much a budget machine. It seems there are just two options chosen by a slide switch. Either Component for using the SCART or S-Video. The manual suggests that if the TV set can receive an RGB signal this is what it will get. Just guessing here but could there also be a composite signal being sent at the same time for those TVs not able to receive the RGB signal. I mean the DVD player has been working fine with my 14 year old tele through the 18 months I've had the player.

    Just right now I can't justify another bit of hardware! The curious thing about dodgy disks is that I never had a dogy disk until I started renting them online. I have about 50 DVDs of my own. Come Christmases and birthdays my offspring usually reckon to give the Old Man a DVD or two. Crafty as they'll probably get to borrow them if they haven't already been played before they get to me! Then there's the temptation of the 2 for £20 tubs of disks at the supermarket. And there are the few I've actually bought from the likes of Play.com. Not one of these retail disks is dodgy!!

    To be fair most of the dodgy rental disks freeze probably around the point where they switch layers. I just sit it out and usually they get going again and play through to the end. Or I take 'em out and give them a vigerous rub and try again. This sometimes sorts it.

    I rent the disks from Mailbox Movies. I've tried several online rental outfits and MM are way the best. Having selected a list of about 30 titles from their huge catalogue, I receive the first three that are available on my list. I can keep them as long as I like. When I've played all three I return them and usually get the next batch of three a couple of days later. For this service I pay £17.97 a month, including packing and first class post both ways on each batch of disks. Take a worst case scenario: say I received 12 disks a month and of these only 9 were playable, I'm still renting disks at slightly less than £2 a throw. Good deal better deal than the local video library who will want the disks back next day. I live in the country so renting disks locally would involve 12 miles there and back. For me, MM are definitely filling a hole in the market.

    Cheers,

    Ronald
     
  15. Choddo

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    Yeah it may well send composite & RGB signals at the same time. I believe RGB signals rely on a composite signal for the sync anyway, just the actual picture info is ignored.

    I'm not sure how it plans to send a component signal up a SCART cable. Perhaps it means RGB when it says component, they're sometimes incorrectly used interchangeably. Do you get a change in picture quality when you move that switch?
     
  16. RonMac

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    Hi Choddo,

    Thanks for your reply. I haven't tried moving that switch. It's tucked away on the back of the player. The manual calls it the Video Output switch and it switches between Component and S-Video Out. Anyway I get a superb picture in DVD play.

    The current problem is the broadcast signals. The transmitted picture could be better. As has happened in the past; get a new TV and the rooftop aerial becomes suspect. The last time I had this checked was the last time we got a new tele 14 years ago! Gradual deterioration of the picture over the years is barely noticed, until a new set is hooked up.

    Do you have a widescreen set? What's with all these formats that are available? The default is Auto. Clicking the Zoom button on the remote produces: AUTO>4:3>14:9>ZOOM 14:9>ZOOM 16:9>FULL SCREEN>PANORAMA>AUTO. The Auto seems to be ZOOM 16:9. The manual says that "If AUTO is chosen, the most appropriate format will be selected (subject to availability of broadcast wide screen signal information)." I read from this that unless the BBC or ITV tell it otherwise, the set will give me ZOOM 16:9 continually. To my eye this seems too wide for everyday broadcasts, making everyone and everything too broad. A better format seems to be ZOOM 14:9. This fills the screen without adding inches to everyone's waists!!

    I tried to play a widescreen video. Initially pressing the play button turned the TVs format back to 4:3. Eventually I found that the TV's format needed to be set to FULL SCREEN. This gave the correct LETTERBOX format of the widescreen video. I've no idea what PANORAMA is supposed to do that is different from ZOOM 16:9. And 14:9 without ZOOM gives us correct height but black margins down each side of the picture. I'm surprised the set doesn't default to ZOOM 14:9.

    Your comments will be welcome.

    Cheers,

    Ronald
     

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