Which tv is best at upscaling?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by philylit, Jan 18, 2008.

  1. philylit

    philylit
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    Any ideas?

    I've done alot of searching on the web to try and get some answers to this but no joy as yet :(

    I've seen alot of people saying to get the best out of standard def gear (dvd's, wii etc) you need a good upscaling tv, but no-one seems to say which these telly's are.

    So if anyone could, please tell me, exactly which hdtv's are best at upscaling :lease:

    thanks all
     
  2. Scrutinizer

    Scrutinizer
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    I think the Pioneer 8G Plasma's (Kuro) are doing a truly excellent job and from what I have read the Fujitsu's are pretty good as well (but their Plasma division is going out of business).

    S.
     
  3. philylit

    philylit
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    Thanks Scrutinizer :smashin:

    Good to get some specifics. Pioneer seem to be quality at everything, my budget probably couldn't stretch that far atm, shame
     
  4. Otto J

    Otto J
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    If you're truly concerned about the quality of upscaling, then why not a seperate scaler? It's not THAT expensive, considering the difference between different, high-quality tv sets. Specifically, you would get very high quality de-interlacing from a DVDO VP20 w. ABT102, and a very attractive alternative is Lumagen. Probably the best scaling around, and you'll get some very nice possibilities for tweaking color performance (with a professional calibration, a Lumagen can significantly affect the performance of a display). Basically, if scaling quality is your main concern, I'd say you should buy the cheapest Panny that delivers the features you want, and add a seperate scaler. No TV will come close to the scaling quality of the seperates from DVDO or Lumagen, imho.

    (Disclaimer: I am a dealer of external scalers, not in the UK though, but I'm probably biased).
     
  5. Otto J

    Otto J
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    Sorry, didn't see this post, then an external scaler probably isn't an alternative. If you can't reach a Pioneer, I believe the solution is pretty obvious: Buy a panasonic. SD performance is not only upscaling, but the upscaling of the panny's is pretty decent actually, although not fantastic. Overall I don't think you'll find better SD performance for the price anywhere.
     
  6. philylit

    philylit
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    Thanks for that Otto, The panny's would definitely be in my price range and so that is the best looking option for me. Pioneer could have happened a couple of months down the line but really need the tv asap (my ps3 needs a partner :) )
     
  7. kjt2004

    kjt2004
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    Phil

    If its Sd that needs to be good then the 3 seem to be

    Pioneer
    Panny (PX)
    Sammy(C or Q)

    Have a look at

    www.*

    All 3 are reviewed there with A SD feed

    regards
     
  8. arad85

    arad85
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    There are a number of people here (including me ;)) that think the Panny PZ does a better job of upscaling than the PX. I have seen them side by side, same feed and to me the PZ was a smoother upscale with less artefacts (I had them set on exactly the same settings for PQ).
     
  9. philylit

    philylit
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    Thanks for your input kjt and Arad, I'm off to the shops today and hopefully will return with one of your recommendations, more than likely the px unless I can do abit of haggling ;)
     
  10. PulsarPilot

    PulsarPilot
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    I also looked at a 50pz70 against a px70 side by side, and the sd feed (analogue tuner) looked far better on the Z, than the X.
    This was done in comet, so they may not have been setup correctly;) ,although, is there anything you can "setup" on the tuning side of things?
    BTW, just had a pz delivered on friday by JL, am very happy with it:D
     
  11. Otto J

    Otto J
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    Theoretically, there is no reason why a 1080P set would be worse at SD than a 768P set. The belief that 768P sets is better for SD, is in my opinion what I call a "unicorn theory". We see something we don't quite understand, so we imagine some kind of explanation. It might seem logical that it's easier to scale to a resolution closer to the original, but in fact it's the other way round - it's theoretically easier to scale to 1080P without artifacts, than to scale to 768P, but because there have been a lot of 1080P sets with poor SD performance (AND poor HD performance, that most people didn't notice because they weren't used to seeing 1080P, so they didn't know what good HD was supposed to look like...), most people thought it was a drawback of the high resolution, instead of just simply realizing that it is in fact possible for the manufacturers to introduce an expensive high-resolution TV with crappy picture quality...

    (Unicorn theory: Someone found a twisted horn on a beach somewhere, and started to imagine what kind of animal this could be from, and came up with the unicorn. In fact, it turned out that the horn was from a narwhal)
     
  12. MAW

    MAW
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    Unicorn theory, an interesting name for the mode of thinking. I think the problem arose in the 1st place cos a fair few 1080p screens have the most appalling cheap processing owing to the cost of the 1080p panel, and the price popint the makers are trying to hit. An LX Pioneer or aviamo Fujitsu has few problems wity SD, and the Panasonics are not too far behind. Strangely, these are the more expensive end of the 1080p screen market (apart from Sony who charge you a grand for the badge), could it be true that you get what you pay for?
     
  13. philylit

    philylit
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    Appreciate all the info guys :thumbsup:

    Great info otto, I always assumed scaling up would be better on a lower res panel beacause of the closer resolution (damn unicorns :D )

    It appears to all come down to quality of manufaturer's product rather than figures.

    ps

    Went on my px70 hunt yesterday but was out of stock :( .
     
  14. Scrutinizer

    Scrutinizer
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    Just to add, presumably these 1080p sets typically perform worse than their 768p siblings because they are based on the same chassis with the same processors, yet in the case of 1080p they have to handle twice the resolution. Also, scaling may be easier to 1080p than to 768p, but still, I reckon twice the number of pixels will have to be calculated for every image, which is also the case for any other kind of processing that has to be performed (perhaps even disproportionally so if done right?)..

    So in short processing is the same, but not enough to handle the extra resolution.

    Thanks for the unicorn analogy :smashin:

    S.
     
  15. arad85

    arad85
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    Seriously... The processing that needs to be done horizontally to get 1920 pixels out of 720 is pretty simple. If you have a chip that does it right, it isn't difficult at all. Upscaling to 1920 horizontally is easy...

    The hard part is getting the interlace right. Standard TV is 576 interlaced... Upscaling to 1080 (or 768, 720, ... whatever your panel is vertically) is DIFFICULT since you have to deal with the fact that the thing you are upscaling is interlaced and half the information you want to use is from a bit in the past or a bit in the future...

    Note: you can do a bad job of upscaling even though you think you know what you're doing!!
     
  16. Otto J

    Otto J
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    Well... a _good_ 768P set would have 1080P processing anyway. It has more to do with input resolution than output resolution. Say a certain chassis can do noise reduction on SD sources, but not HD sources. That will then be the case for both the 768P and the 1080P version of the display. Scaling is usually the last thing that happens in a display. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that any of the tv's that lack certain features when inputting 1080i or 1080P (like Philips Pixel Plus sets) _does_ have them on the 1080P sets, when you input an SD source?

    What you WILL have are situations where the 1080P set has 50 Hz refresh and the 768P has 100 Hz refresh etc., but I don't believe that's down to processing power, as much as the panel properties.


    Thanks, it's actually my own creation, so I really hope noone else came up with it before me :D I _hate_ inventing stuff, only to find out someone else already thought of it! :D
     

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