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Which sub with KEF Q.2 speakers

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by dwsadler1, Aug 10, 2001.

  1. dwsadler1

    dwsadler1
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    Which sub would go well with KEF Q35.2 fronts, Q95.2 centre & Q85S rears?<br />Thanks
     
  2. Guest

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    How much money do want to spend? How big is your listening room?<br />Any of the following manufacturers are well regarded for their subwoofer products<br />Rel<br />Miller and Kreisel<br />Monitor Audio<br />B+W
     
  3. russraff

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    Going by KEF, you should be looking at a 30B sub from them. They are a bit dated now, but should be very cheep. If you want to pay the premium, then the best REL would be a Strata III or Q200. Try to buy second hand if possible to keep prices down. SteveEX makes an interesting point on Monitor Audio subs. I haven't heard these, but they are supposed to be quite good value for money. Castle is selling their 80S inversion subs for £400, which are actually designed by ATC (who also supplied the driver and amp). For an extra £50, you could have the awesome Servo 15 (though it is very big).<br />Why don't I recommend a sub outright? Well, because some info (listed in SteveEX's post) is missing, but more importantly everyone’s idea of a good sub is different. I must be the only bloke in the UK that doesn't like REL subs (overpriced), yet loads of people, and magazines, love them. My advice would be to get a few home demos of some kit and make a decision then. This may seem like a cop-out, but it’s the only way to be sure.

    Russell
     
  4. Guest

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    Russraff.<br /> Your point is well received in so much as self demo is essential - full stop. I do however consider myself to have experience in both subwoofer/subsonic technologies/performance and would be only to happy to expand on any "missing" information.<br />The manufacturers mentioned above are simply suggestions to which i have had reasonable to extreme experience of some models from their respective ranges and found them all to offer a good level of performance given their respective price tags.<br />Personally i have found the Kef TDM 45/30b to be somewhat limited in several areas but as you rightly say one mans gold is another mans refuse etc.

    [ 13-08-2001: Message edited by: SteveEX ]</p>
     
  5. jimcarney

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  6. Guest

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    Jim.<br />I'm afraid i can offer no advice on this particular sub, perhaps if you audition it you would advise me of your thoughts on it.<br />Apologies.

    SteveEX
     
  7. russraff

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    SteveEX,

    Sorry, I ment that there were several points missing from the original post, not from your response. 45B isn't that good? What is wrong with it? I was going to audition one (they seem to be going quite cheep now), but would like to be clued-up beforehand.

    Jimcarney,

    I heard a while ago that Rega were releasing a sub based on the REL Q50. I this the one? Try and compare specs and if they are the same, then the performance should be as per the Q50.

    Russell
     
  8. Guest

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    Russraff.<br />Bear in mind this is what i "thought" of the TDM. I personally use the TDM23c and 2 pairs of TDM34ds, all power-amp driven to which i am all things considered am very happy with (as ever unfortunately my expectations far exceed my budget) while demo-ing these originally they formed part of the complete KEF THX package and i spent at least 2.5 hours listening to my personal reference music and dvd choice's (IMHO the KEF THX speaker package doesn't do music!)<br />I found the TDM45 to be slow almost lethargic (i use a Servo 15 amoung my 3 sub's and in my opinion i do not find that particularly fast) i do not think this can be attributed to standing waves and the like (and here's my next problem) because it (the TDM) didn't seem to want to go low at all! With my Servo i am suffering room acoustic problems (AARRGGHH! my room is almost perfectly square with high vaulted ceilings - pretty much worse case senario hence 3 sub's) in so much much as when raising the Servo cross-over setting timing is improved. Given that the TDM is a huge sub (physically not that different from the Servo) also using a 15" drive unit it's extension is poor. We could get nothing out of it at 20hz! Maybe there there was a "problem" but i doubt it, which is strange given it's THX (of which i am a supporter) heritage, i can't remember exactly but off the top of my head i believe a THX sub should reach 20hz with a much narrower margin of -2db (i may have that figure wrong but it's certainly something close to that) that said i have played with the (almost reference) MK350THX at £2000+ and that didn't get to 20hz either!!! (we measured 20hz at around -7db). So there are physically much smaller sub's that will match the TDM's extension with improved timing.<br />Overall spl's were "reasonable" again it's THX badge states compliance with a reference SPL at a specific frequency in a room of a given size.<br />It's certainly loud if that's your thing but in all honesty for us mortals using average sized room's i find the maximum attainable spl for a (quality) sub to be about the least or last of my concern's, it readily bottoms out with both audible distortion and it's end stop when trying to extract low frequencies at relatively modest volumes of which i have read similar complaints from owner's on sites such as:<br /><a href="http://www.audioreview.com" target="_blank">www.audioreview.com</a><br />(one of the best IMHO consumer based review sites about).<br />Given their relative cost's i thought (you can get the 30b for £250-£300 now) the 30b was the better sub, it's smaller and doesn't quite have the spl to match the TDM and is not to far off in terms of extension but too my ears gave a much tighter and more credible/translucent presentation, were it my money and these were two i had to choose from then i would undoubtably take two 30b's over one expensive 45.<br />Whilst i realise 2.5 hours is not at all long and there are many contributary factors to take into consideration i believe i have enough of "an idea" to at least recognise a sub's limitations rather than it's commendable values which can/may take a while to set-up/appreciate.<br />It may be worth nothing that at certain times we swapped the TDM for a bog standard Rel Q100 (i am aware of your "reservations" towards Rel) which i found to be far the more coherent and less "hammer to crack a nut" sub/performance.<br />For the record i would recommend in the less than £800 bracket:<br />If you require absolute extension at the cost of "timbre and subtlety" then the Paradigm Servo 15 goes as low at high spl's as ANY sub i have heard - i own one and if you can scare the cat then you know you are into true sub-sonic's.<br />If you require "timing, timbre, subtlety and absolute integration" (for real music) then the Rel Storm is not a bad place to judge others by. Admittedly i own two but in all honesty (i tend to turn the Servo off if it's a music night) baring in mind their cost i have not once regretted my decision and in all my crossing's with various sub's (in and around £7-£800) i have never felt the need to replace them (i have had the mk2 for about 3 years and a mk3 for over a year).<br />Biased?? i don't think so but as you so rightly stated before what may sound like "sub utopia" to me may sound like tin pans in a washing machine to you.

    Bored yet?

    Regards

    SteveEX

    [ 13-08-2001: Message edited by: SteveEX ]

    [ 13-08-2001: Message edited by: SteveEX ]</p>
     
  9. Guest

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    All.<br />I am aware that alot of my most recent post's seem to dwell on other sub's "lack of extension/doesn't go that low" etc. Whilst this is not the be all and end all of subwoofer performance in A.V (read DD/DTS) terms i will say this.<br />I do not consider my dual Storm set-up to which i have lived with for a while to be anything less than reasonably accomplished in performance terms and, amongst other "anal stuff" consider sub's and the like to be my "thing".<br />However if like me after a very early stage into owning your first sub you wondered "just how did i manage without this?" and i am almost loathed to say this (RS affillation et all) but this without a shadow of doubt has become how i feel with the Servo 15 or more specifically the low frequencies it plays that other beer's don't come CLOSE to reaching.<br />Given it was simply "an impulse buy" at £450 it is simply the best "up-grade?" i have ever bought.<br />DVD's like U571(dts) and The Haunting(dts) simply have depth that my two Storms weren't interested in - a real real revelation. <br />I simply would not be without it (i use the two Storms as stereo left and right with the servo connected to the LFE output and the LFE signal sent to mains and sub)<br />Servo 15 it's not perfect by a long chalk but at £500 it's nearest rival in extension terms is the Mirage BPS400 @ £1300!!!!

    My soap box has now collapsed!

    [ 13-08-2001: Message edited by: SteveEX ]</p>
     

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