Which sub (£300-£500) for music

Julio V

Banned
Hi every body,

I would be grateful if you could give me an advice on subwoofer for my system.

Digital: Pink Triangle Cardinal CD player + Dacapo DAC
Power: Pass lab 3 + Pass Aleph P pre
Speakers: B&W P6

I don't mind second hand or brandnew sub. Some one offered me Rel stadium2 for £300.

I am living in London. I don't have a good grasp of sub woofer . Once I read some threads about SVS and BK.... Strata5 is wonderful for music.Please help.

Julio
 

AngelEyes

Distinguished Member
I don't know any of your kit I am afraid but it sounds expensive to me which makes me think that £500 for a sub may not be doing your system justice?

However to answer your question... the usual suspects would be the BK Monolith, SVS PB10 NSD and the SVS SB12+ if you want a really compact sub.

To expand the budget you can look at the SVS PB12+ or +2 but you will need a big room to lose these beasts in it. :rolleyes:

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers.htm

http://www.avforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=191
 

HiFiRuss71

Distinguished Member
For music only, I can think of few subs that would offer the potential satisfaction of the small SVS SB12/plus and it falls nicely within budget. Given the restrictions for sub tuning in a stereo setup, the SVS with it's onboard parametric equalisation and room size compensation controls is in a class of it's own.

I've heard one twice for extended periods and was invloved in setting one up on the second of the occasions. My admiration for it grows every time I meet one.

Russell
 

Ian J

Banned
SVS PB10 NSD

Don't forget that the PB-10 doesn't have high level connectors so may not be suitable for that reason.

If the sub is to be used mainly for music I'm not too sure that a REL Stentor 2 for £300 wouldn't be worth looking at
 

Julio V

Banned
Don't forget that the PB-10 doesn't have high level connectors so may not be suitable for that reason.

If the sub is to be used mainly for music I'm not too sure that a REL Stentor 2 for £300 wouldn't be worth looking at

Thanks all of you for your advice.

First of all: Ian: You said Stentor2, but I said Stadium2. I think Stentor costs much more than Stadium. As your thread, Stadium2 is in the same fate, isn't it?

Secondly, on the one hand, you said Highlevel connection was ideal for music setting up, in the other hand you suggested PB 10.

Make me more confused in your thread you said that Monolith is the best in group for delay ( good for music), but RussWill & Angel Eye recomand SVS PB12+

Moreover, someone said seal box sub is not perfect for music when comparing to ventilation sub. the orthers said, seal box sub did not go deeper than the port one.

Other threads confirmed Front F would have a ideal listening position for at least 3-5m while the DownF would not

I am not in 2 minds but multi minds:suicide:

Please more detail
 

Coolit

Active Member
You could opt for an SVS PB12-NSD if you have the room, it is a little bulky though. It costs £450 but worth every penny and it has high level inputs.

Edit: its also vented
 

Ian J

Banned
First of all: Ian: You said Stentor2, but I said Stadium2.

My mistake. Both my eyesight and memory are failing now :(

The Stadium 2 is also good value at £300 although not as good as the Stentor. I used to have a Storm which is one down from the Stadium and it was a fine sub for music.

The SVS Pb-10 is probably not suitable for music only applications as there are no speaker level connections - just the low level RCA (phono) connector.

Not only was I with Russ when he heard one of the SB-12's but I was impressed enough to buy one for myself and it should suit your requirements very well
 

HiFiRuss71

Distinguished Member
Make me more confused in your thread you said that Monolith is the best in group for delay ( good for music), but RussWill & Angel Eye recomand SVS PB12+
The Monolith does appear to have the group delay of a sealed sub, that's one of it's tricks, but it's not the only important factor for good music reproduction. Impulse response, it's speed at starting a noise and stopping it, is another.

For what it's worth and I've said this before, the qualities that make a good movie sub, make a good music sub. High headroom for uncompressed dynamics, low distortion, extended frequency range, tight impulse response and smooth group delay. All of those are qualities you want, whatever you're playing.

Moreover, someone said seal box sub is not perfect for music when comparing to ventilation sub. the orthers said, seal box sub did not go deeper than the port one.
Generally, for a given price, ported subs will go lower and deeper with less distortion. A sealed sub may have to compromise one of these abilities to manage the other two. The SB12 will go practically as loud as a Monolith, but achieves it by sacrificing the last 5-10Hz of extension to do it. Remember, I'm stating this in the context of price. Higher power, more expensive sealed subs can reduce this compromise.

Both of the above questions are pointless, if you can't achieve a good integration with your room. Suffering a serious room resonance or cancellation will overpower any of the subtle differences these measurements show. A serious resonance, will mask deeper notes, making the sub sound monotonous (one note), boomy and slow. All of which will be crap for music (and for movies).

And this is why I think the SB12 is a great candidate for music, where the last half octave of bass depth doesn't matter as much. Unless you are a church organ addict who wants the deep pipes to rattle your eyeballs!.

Smaller subs are easier to integrate because they allow a greater range of positions in the room. The SB12 has additional features (room size compensation and EQ) that will further allow the ultimate goal of a nice flat frequency responce that will give a tight, fast, deep, powerful sound that will underpin and drive music along, instead of blurring and slowing it.

Other threads confirmed Front F would have a ideal listening position for at least 3-5m while the DownF would not
I'm not sure that this matters. DF may diffuse the sound more than an FF, but given that it is distortion that tends to reveal the subs location, a low distortion sub shouldn't real care which way the driver faces.[/QUOTE]
I am not in 2 minds but multi minds:suicide:
Welcome to subs! It gets less complicated as time goes on. Honest!

Russell
 

suniil

Well-known Member
I've recently bought an SB12 Plus sub. i'm very impressed with the result.

If you are somewhere near SE London, you are more than welcome for a demo (7 minutes from elephant & castle / oval).

I am living in London. I don't have a good grasp of sub woofer . Once I read some threads about SVS and BK.... Strata5 is wonderful for music.Please help.

Julio
 

AngelEyes

Distinguished Member
The SVS Pb-10 is probably not suitable for music only applications as there are no speaker level connections - just the low level RCA (phono) connector.

Yes Ian is correct, I was not thinking clearly when I replied, sorry. :suicide:
 

Dynaudio Desire

Active Member
To start with, dont go near the Rel Strata 5. It is highly overpriced and dosnt deliver peformance up to its price tag. It does produce very very impressive deep bass from such a small box and driver but it is completely out of control and flabby IMO. Its not suitable for music to be fair let alone movies.

When I first started out in this subwoofer trend, I thought "Ported = Not good for music" but a few demos to my local dealer proved me wrong. Your right that a sealed subwoofer will not go as low as that of a ported one but in most music you wont even get below 21Hz (which is how low the SVS SB12 should get to). The SB12 does seem like a very suitable option in your case. Its small, has lots of settings to choose from and is astheticly pleasing. And from what people have said about it, it sounds to me like a mini magic box of bass!

If you are going to choose a subwoofer with less EQ options, then it may take longer to setup depending on the room it is placed in!

Can I ask what main genre of music you listen to?
 

Julio V

Banned
Thanks Dynaudio D

My favourite music is Jazz and love songs such as: Sorry Seems to be the Hardest Word( Elton John), songs in Magic FM radio...

Just having a quick look at SVS SB12, I was completely persuaded by its solid built, bags of features. It is gorgeous.:smashin:

I love Rosenut finish. but it costs me an arm & a leg. I may end up with the black one :(

I will have my eye opened on any threads from other members about its sound

Thank you very much Suniil , I will let you know when I have time
 

HiFiRuss71

Distinguished Member
Just having a quick look at SVS SB12, I was completely persuaded by its solid built, bags of features. It is gorgeous.:smashin:

I love Rosenut finish. but it costs me an arm & a leg. I may end up with the black one :(

Just incase and because I don't know if you're in Britain or not, have you noticed the forum powerbuy thread here. It helps take the edge off the price, especially if you use the pre-order-by-the-end-of-year offer.

Russell
 

Dynaudio Desire

Active Member
My favourite music is Jazz and love songs such as: Sorry Seems to be the Hardest Word( Elton John), songs in Magic FM radio...
AHA! Yep the SB12 is going be extremly suitable! Jazz dosnt contain anything lower than what the SB12 can reach and you want the bass to be nice and fast, which the SB12 should quite happily do!
 

HiFiRuss71

Distinguished Member
DD, you're recommending products that you haven't heard again. If you don't want people giving you stick, then stop basing your opinions on others experience.

FWIW, the SB12 is perfect and then some, for what you need.:)

Order one for Xmas andf be happy. I command it!!

Russell
 

Nimby

Distinguished Member
I'm wondering which of you is suffering from delusions of grandeur.

Perhaps it's both of you?

DD has been sounding much more mature recently.

His voice must have broken. ;)
 

Julio V

Banned
Thank RussWill,

final question before placing my order, I was wondering if it is necessery to buy a subwoofer while my floorstanding speakers:

-frequency range(-6db): 26Hz-22Khz
-Frequency response:30hz-20khz (+,-2db)
- Crossover frequency: 150hz,3khz

in case of music setting up (not 5.1 receiver), is there any difficult to blend or intergrate the sub with the main speakers? bloomy or boomy sound as a result?:rolleyes:

Other concern is how noisy SB12 plus is when its gain is in lowest(anticlock w) position? My system is extremely low noise even if you place your ear very near to them. The SB12plus owners please give your experience

please help
 

Ian J

Banned
-frequency range(-6db): 26Hz-22Khz
-Frequency response:30hz-20khz (+,-2db)

26Hz -6db is't particularly low and a -3db figure would be far more revealing (which is why your manufacturer hasn't quoted it)

I have the SB-12 and it doesn't produce any noise apart from the bass that it's supposed to produce. No extra hum, whistles or grunts.

Boom is more likely to be a placement & setup issue rather than the subwoofer itself. It should integrate seamlessly with all speakers but subwoofers do take a bit of setting up to get the best out of them and aren't plug & play like speakers.
 

bym007

Banned
Don't forget that the PB-10 doesn't have high level connectors so may not be suitable for that reason.

If the sub is to be used mainly for music I'm not too sure that a REL Stentor 2 for £300 wouldn't be worth looking at

You could opt for an SVS PB12-NSD if you have the room, it is a little bulky though. It costs £450 but worth every penny and it has high level inputs.

Edit: its also vented


Folks, I just ordered my PB10-NSD, though yet to be recvd tmrw. I use my system for music literally always on when I am indoors, and say probably 3-4 movies a week. I have my TV and XBOX also connected to my rcvr, so all my audio out is from this audio setup.

What I understand from your comments is that I made a wrong mistake in picking the SUB [SVS PB10-NSD] ??? MY particular reasons for buying this sub is the price [being on a budget] and excellent reviews...

Please clarify ???
 

Ian J

Banned
The lack of high level inputs on the PB-10 mean that it cannot be connected to the speaker connections on a stereo amp as some other subs can. The manufacturer decided that as the overwhelming majority of their customers would use it connected to an AV amp they would leave out unnecessary electronics to keep the price down.

As long as you are happy just using the low level phono imput on the PB-10 you won't have any problems. I gave up using high level connections years ago and have never missed them - mainly because I use an AV amp and not a stereo amp
 

Dynaudio Desire

Active Member
DD, you're recommending products that you haven't heard again. If you don't want people giving you stick, then stop basing your opinions on others experience.
All round aploligies.....But then maybe neither you or anyone else not owning an SB12 not be able to talk about it??
 
R

recruit

Guest
All round aploligies.....But then maybe neither you or anyone else not owning an SB12 not be able to talk about it??

I think Russell was makeing a point about you maybe purchaseing a sub and putting us all out of our misery and becoming a proper member of the club, sub club that is ;) :D
 

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