Which Speakers - B&W XT Series, Axiom Epic 80, SVS Sub

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Dr MC

Guest
Hi all,

Hope i'm posting in the right place etc, im new to forums, never used one before but this is my second post today....

If i've done my settings properly you should see a list of my setup below, and although quite low-end by many peoples' opinions here, it is sufficient for me. I know many people here also don't like Harman Kardon, but I have very specific listening tastes and their sound does it for me... Plus I have no interest in video outputs or modern DSP settings that other Japanese equipment can do.

Anyway, i'm after some speakers for my H/K setup, I heard some B&W XT series speakers on a Yamaha amp and liked the sound, and the PV1 sub was technically impressive but maybe a little poor performing for my tastes - the whole speaker set looked nice though. Also i've read that Axiom Epic 80 speakers work very well with H/K stuff due to the high current amp and 4 ohm speaker load requirement on the M80ti front speakers. However, being a online company, my chances of getting to hear some are slim, and I am a bit concerned the dual tweeter configuration will be too 'bright' for me. Finally, if i went with the B&W set, I might change the sub for a SVS PB13-ultra. I have heard this and I liked the depth and power available.

Are there any other options of speakers like this out there to consider? I like a very clean sounding setup but one with plenty of low end 'warmth' or 'rich bass' sound (but not muddy) and not too much treble. The cost is not too much of a problem, although probably quite low compared to some peoples' standards here, i.e. a full 5.1 speaker set I would pay up to £4000, or just a sub about £1200.

Thanks in advance and please tell me if I do anything wrong regarding posting etc in forums, you wont hurt my feelings...lol
 
If you've heard a PB13, you've no doubt seen the size of it. If you can live with it's size you are going to struggle to beat it at £1200.

I would pick it regardless of whatever is being added as the 5.0 part :D
 
You're fairly set on 'style' speakers then, rather than more full range ones?

What about the XTC centre and XT2 as surrounds, with 805S as your front two with a PC ultra? I have to admit to not having heard the XT series, but the 805S were so amazing that I broke my budget by £600 on the spot last week (with the wife's agreement!)
 
Thanks Andori, yeah the PB-13 sub is huge but I have enough room for it. My only reservation from buying it is that large subs tend to be best suited to movies not music, and the listening I had was with a movie unfortunatly, so not definitive for my needs. That's why I looked at the PV1, but that seemed underpowered / lacking the depth I need, and also was not as 'clean' sounding as I expected.

Is there anything somewhere between the two?

ab1385, I wouldn't consider myself a fan of 'style' speakers, (although I know the B&W XT series is exactly that!) and I am lucky enough to be single so have no restrictions other than my own tastes. However, if there were two sets of speakers that sounded identical but one set looked very stylish and cost 50% more, then I'd probably go with those.

The 805s speakers I'm sure will provide the clean sound I'm looking for, as would all the B&W 800 series, however I've always had floorstanders as my front speakers, and although not a requirement, I like the bass response typically available from them. The transition of low frequencies from floorstanders to the sub are smooth in a way I have never experienced from 'bookshelf' speakers, and I doubt I can afford any others in the 800 series range.

On a similar issue, the PB13 seems to have a stereo low level input, all the subs I've seen before only have a mono input. How would I connect it to my amp? It has 2 sub outputs but for seperate subs. Would I need to connect the PB13 to the L and R front pre-outs?
 
You only need to connect 1 lead to the sub, don't worry that it has 2 inputs (assuming the amp is processing all the relevant low frequency stuff into 1 signal).

In independant tests, the PV1 is shown to distort at relatively high frequencies, which means you would probably get away with it in a pure music setup as you don't need to go that low. You can also get very similar performance to it from a BK XLS200 at less than £300, although it doesn't look as good.

You are as well asking the bass heads in the sub forum for their opinions on the PB13 with music. If you get a chance, try listening to it again with some music :)
 
Assuming you'd be using these speakers with an AV amp and sub any frequency response below 60- or 80Hz would be irrelevant, depending on your crossover.

I have owned floorstanders previous to these 805s as well and although the bass response is not huge in terms of going below 50Hz, down to 50Hz it's superb. I really would at least give them a listen - they are just beyond fantastic (well, to my ears anyway). I just can't imagine the XTs being even close to the 805S in terms of, well, pretty much everything sonically.

Just, if you're going to go to a hi-fi shop, don't make up your mind against them without having heard them first.
 
That's very true, my crossover is currently set at 60hz, so if the 805s are solid to 50hz then ill give them a try. How do they fair when it comes to volume? I occasionally have my music very loud, and listen to everything from 'symphonic-metal' to pure 'classical', the latter requiring significant power in the tutti choir / organ / orchestra parts, at all frequencies. I know the 805s have much better sensitivity than the XT4's but then the XT's have higher power handling, which may be what I need. That's why I'm also considering the Axiom M80ti in the Epic 80 series, they apparently handle immense power and have good sensitivity, and although probably not in the same league as any B&W range, they may have the power to fill my room.
Can you (or anyone) make any recommendations based on this power requirement? Are there other makes I should consider?
 
Have you listened to any PMC speakers? They are well regarded and if I wasn't so keen on the M&K sound I would probably have PMCs myself, I really like the look of them too.

I don't know why the PV1 is even on your list if you are considering a PB13U... and you don't need to worry about the SVS with music as it is suprisingly nimble, but like any sub that reaches deep will take some effort/time to integrate properly, however there are plenty of 'bass-heads' available to assist ;)

If you wanted something between the two, the BK Monolith is good with music as is the XLS300 or the SVS SB12+, all of which would seriously outclass the PV1 for less money.

However if you can accomodate the bigger SVS then it would appear to be a no-brainer :D

Adam
 
I've only commented on the 805s because from a demo of speakers last week the 805s were the ones I bought, and were clearly ahead of the competition I listened to (which was, admittedly generally cheaper but did include the Kef XQs).

I have them bi-amped off my Denon AV amp (so around 280W into each speaker) and I can manage listening at around -10dB for short periods of time, at -0dB I think that would satisfy most peoples desire for loud music and then some. They really do an amazing job of filling the room with sound.

But,as is often said on here, you'd just have to listen to them.
 
Thanks everyone so far for the responses.

Glad the connection to sub issue is easy Andori, the stereo connection was worrying, that's one more positive for the PB13.

I'll look into the BK subs, two people have mentioned them and certainly the Monolith looks interesting, I could get two of them for the price they are.

Thanks Angeleyes for the advice. The PV1 is on my 'potentials' list because it's the sub that matches the XT series setup and I guess that it would complement the speakers well. I also like the idea of the 'pressure vessel' technology and thought it would work well.
PMC are not a company I've heard of, but from a quick look at their website, I'm definitely going to check them out - maybe out of my price range though.

ab1385, I wouldn't normally consider bookshelfs, but I'll include the 805s in my listening tests this friday since you seem very happy with yours. (I'm having a full day testing stuff at my local Hi-Fi shop) Their power handling seems quite impressive.
I need to give my final list of what I want to test out by thursday lunchtime but they don't have that much variety, so any other recommendations up to then are greatly appreciated.
 
Subwoofers don't have a 'tone' as such and therefore you won't gain anything from sticking with the same make as your speakers. You will almost always get a better sub for your money from a company that specialises in them especially with the likes of BK and SVS to choose from.

The design phylosophy of the PV1 may be more interesting but what is the point if it doesn't actually perform as well as a sub that is half the price? The PV1 is going to get obliterated in every respect by all the subs I mentioned and most of them are considerably cheaper.

If you priorities are for lifestyle products, or form over function then the PV1 is certainly compact and attractive to look at. However when the lights go down and the film starts those things don't seem to matter so much :)

Adam
 
Although I still need to listen to the BK monolith, I think my choice is going to be between the PB13 and Monolith for the sub. The looks of the PV1 are not worth loss of performance, but I'm still drawn to slightly by the 500w ICE amp inside it. I can't see where all that power is going, it's just not that powerful... Maybe a marketing ploy?

Anyway, just need to decide on a few sets of speakers to test drive now, the PMCs look great, but I doubt my HiFi shop sells them...
 
but I'm still drawn to slightly by the 500w ICE amp inside it.

If you are talking about the PV1 here (£950 rrp), the Monolith's baby brother XLS200 will match it in performance stakes at £289.

As AngelEyes said, if you can accomodate a PB13.... :D

(Where is the Russell when we need an objective opinion on subs for music?:confused:, although we are in the speaker forum)
 
If you are talking about the PV1 here (£950 rrp), the Monolith's baby brother XLS200 will match it in performance stakes at £289.

As AngelEyes said, if you can accomodate a PB13.... :D

(Where is the Russell when we need an objective opinion on subs for music?:confused:, although we are in the speaker forum)

I know I feel a little 'unclean' :rolleyes:

Dr MC,

A smaller cabinet volume requires much more power to produce a given volume or reach a given depth, so you will often see the better small subwoofers with proportionally larger amps, something you will notice on a lot of the smaller Velodynes for instance. This is another reason why decent small subwoofers can be more expensive in a cost vs performance respect. The more powerrful amps and extra wizardry needed to try and reduce some of that distortion, are generally much more expensive than the extra materials required to manufacture a sub with a larger cabinet.

A larger cabinet is much easier to drive, can be tuned lower and will produce less distortion for the same volume.

So the best performance is more likely to come from a big sub with a big amp :smashin:

Adam
 
Ok, the PV1 is no longer an option, I've read enough to convince me it's out of it's depth here (no pun intended..) against the other two im considering. I didn't know small subs were harder to drive at high volume than large ones, I'd guessed they would struggle with the depth, but not volume... That's worth remembering..
I'll check out opinions in the sub forum about music ability of the PB13, but then the monolith is really cheap, I could get that now but would have to wait a month for funds for the PB13...

These PMC speakers are really popular too, I've been checking them out and apparently a collegue has a set (I'm not sure which model) going to check them out tonight... Also thanks for the link, I'll keep checking on there because so far I haven't found any shops that stock PMCs near me.

This is probably going to sound like a basic beginners question but I need to know... It's common knowledge that it takes a few days / weeks / months for speakers to 'settle' into their surroundings or 'bed-in', but is this really the case or is it just your ears growing accustom to the sound?
I'm sure it's a bit of both, but therefore when I go for my listening on friday, if I like a set and buy some then how would I know the sound won't change or develop into something I don't like a few weeks later? - I wouldn't normally ask such a 'newbie' question, but I've always wondered...
 
Ok, the PV1 is no longer an option, I've read enough to convince me it's out of it's depth here (no pun intended..) against the other two im considering. I didn't know small subs were harder to drive at high volume than large ones, I'd guessed they would struggle with the depth, but not volume... That's worth remembering..
I'll check out opinions in the sub forum about music ability of the PB13, but then the monolith is really cheap, I could get that now but would have to wait a month for funds for the PB13...

These PMC speakers are really popular too, I've been checking them out and apparently a collegue has a set (I'm not sure which model) going to check them out tonight... Also thanks for the link, I'll keep checking on there because so far I haven't found any shops that stock PMCs near me.

This is probably going to sound like a basic beginners question but I need to know... It's common knowledge that it takes a few days / weeks / months for speakers to 'settle' into their surroundings or 'bed-in', but is this really the case or is it just your ears growing accustom to the sound?
I'm sure it's a bit of both, but therefore when I go for my listening on friday, if I like a set and buy some then how would I know the sound won't change or develop into something I don't like a few weeks later? - I wouldn't normally ask such a 'newbie' question, but I've always wondered...

I tend to think some of this 'running in' stuff is exaggerated a bit. Certainly with subwoofers I have never noticed mine change over time although there are plenty that swear they improve over the first few weeks. I understand the physics of it and it makes sense but I'm not sure it makes a very noticeable audiable difference.

Maybe it is because I spend so much time tweaking, that the subs never stay configured the same long enough for me to notice. :confused: :D

It is worth noting that the 'running in' period is almost always described as a period of improving performance; I have never read anyone saying it started sounding worse due to run-in. :)

Adam
 

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