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Which Smart Thermostat? Evohome, Tado, Ideal Touch or Nest?

Toki

Standard Member
Hi,

I currently have an Ideal Vogue boiler which is Opentherm compatible. Currently controlled via a Honeywell CM927.

I'd like to get a smart stat that is controllable via my phone. Initially I had wanted the option of expansion into TRVs but now less bothered going by some feedback in to return on investment. I've been looking at all the available options and was favouring Tado but a few things have put me off.

1. Reliant on Tado cloud. What happens if they go bust or are hacked? Does it turn in to a manual stat or are the programs / timings still retained locally?
2. V3+ being subscription for Geofencing option. I do see box.co.uk are still selling V3 ones so haven't completely ruled Tado out.

A few questions for any experts please.
I have narrowed down to getting one with Opentherm. I believe these will be more efficient, save money and regulated temp. Is this correct?
Is Evohome / Nest more self contained? Are the timings / programs all stored locally? I'm less concerned with these companies due to them having large parents than Tado (privacy aside).
I prefer having control and having a program of temperatures and being able to adjust as and when required. Does this rule Nest out for me? Or will it learn and still be able to change based on the geofencing and manually?
Am I missing any other Opentherm smart stat options such as Heatmiser or even Ideal's own version, Touch? Are these all stored In the cloud also?

I appreciate each system has its own pros and cons and will largely depend on each users needs so if I haven't given enough info, please ask. Thanks in advance.
 

Markr123

Active Member
I’ve been using v1 Tado for over 3 years and it’s been fantastic. Almost completely set and forget. In that time I think the cloud service went out for about an hour but didn’t have any noticeable issues for me. The system still works with exception of remote access via the app.
The self install was painless, with great instructions. The wall stat is super clean and simple so blends in to the wall without looking like a launch system for a spaceship.
Sadly, Tado do seem to have now changed their approach with some really confusing and questionable pricing models. In the earlier days, all the geofencing stuff that I have built in to my original one off purchase price now seems to be a paid add on as do other “gimmick” features. Open window detection for example. Again, I have it built in. Don’t think it makes a bit of difference.
I never entertained the “Smart” TRV’s. I would have needed x18 of them and at ~£60 a pop plus fitting, I elected to go for traditional TRVs.

Has Tado saved me money? It’s certainly paid for itself comfortably and some. Love the functionality. Would I buy it again today with the push on monthly subscription? Not sure I would. I think the system has been great for me given the one off purchase price paid but they now seem all about the revenue. Having said that, from what I see others are even worse. Hive?

Not sure that really answers Q but hope of some help.
 

Toki

Standard Member
Thanks Mark. Glad you're really happy with your Tado.

To expand on the cloud side of things. My preference is always to have things local and my concern would be if they went out of business, we are left with a dumb thermostat. At least with Google and Honeywell you imagine tjey'll be in business in years to come. I certainly hope Tado are too but you never know with smaller startup companies.

Glad uptime has been so good and certainly still considering them. When you say it still worked during the outage, was this manual or did it continue as per your pre programmed set points?

Thanks for the reply.
 

Markr123

Active Member
@Toki I agree, I try to have as much locally as possible for all the same reasons. In this day and age, you are always bound by any technology co. Most of my house is homekit, hue, and alike. Whilst they work offline, you are still bound to the OEM to some degree. Being a BIG name means little imho. Not that I use it, but how many times has Samsung Smartthings been offline? Google, Amazon Alexa, they’ve all had their “offline moments”. ‘‘Tis the nature of the beast. Whilst I also use Alexa, hue switches, I also maintain a “lights out” methodology so we can still use the basic house services in the very, very rare event things are offline. For example. Tado still works locally albeit more manually, I still have access to good old fashioned switches behind all my hue dimmers if all else fails.

The primary reason for my Tado decision after reviewing Nest, hive etc, was it worked well in a larger home, had the best offline resilience and was easy to use. Fast forward nearly 4 years and there is plenty more to choose from. Personally not looking forward to having to choose again when the time comes.
 

neilball

Well-known Member
Honeywell Evo does everything locally with only app access going via the cloud. So when their server goes down all continues to operate locally and all programming/management can be done through the Evo Touch controller.

There are other offerings from Honeywell (such as their single zone smart stat) that does rely on the Cloud for programming and for sending time schedule switch points to the local controls. This means if the cloud is unavailable then no time program information is available to the stat so it continues to operate at the last schedule update before the cloud went offline. You can still adjust the temperature locally, and the boiler will still be controlled on demand, but this is the limitation of cloud-based solutions - you lose some (or in some cases, all) functionality if the cloud server is unavailable for any reason.

I view heating and lighting control as fundamental in being able to use the house, so any control system that places core functions in the cloud means it is not going to be acceptable to me, no matter how clever it may be compared to its competition.
 

Puntoboy

Active Member
Used to have Tado, poor business practices and charges forced me to ditch it.

Now have Hive, works really well. If the internet is down they still work locally.
 

Toki

Standard Member
Thank again Mark for your comments.

Neil, thanks for your input. Couple of queries on the Evo. It's mainly marketed as a multi zone device, does it work ok as a single zone via the 1 controller? I'm in 2 minds about going down the TRV route. I've got 12 rads. My understanding is I'd be best getting TRVs on most or all rads? If for example I get on half for upstairs and not downstairs, if 1 TRV calls for heat upstairs, all downstairs rads would come on too assuming the manual TRVs are open?

Are you talking about the Honeywell Lyric T6 Neil that stores in the cloud? Pity if that's the case otherwise think that would do the job for me for 1 zone.

Are there any other opentherm smart thermostats that store locally? Any experience of the Ideal Touch?


Punto, thanks but have ruled Hive out due to not being opentherm compatible.
Ianandanne, thankd, not looked in to Netatmo, will read up.
 

Toki

Standard Member
1 more question on the evo, does the controller stay on all the time? 1 review stated how bright it is and had to move away as it couldn't be dimmed or turned off. Thanks
 

Toki

Standard Member
Sorry to post again!

Has anyone experience of Drayton Wiser system? Seems to be a cheaper alternative to Evohome some issues reported to the communication between TRVs if too far away but seems good apart from that?

Thanks in advance.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
Another shout out for Netatmo. Love the tight integration with Apple Homekit as well. We have the room thermostat, and also individual TRVs. The system is reliable and works well together. And if the internet doesn't work, all can still be controlled locally.
 

Ianandanne

Active Member
I did lots of homework and found you've got to spend to get something good, Nest has more functionality but is a lot more money. I got the Netatmo and Radiotor valves and love the control I know have. It is fantastic value...
 

Fergal82

Distinguished Member
Nowt wrong with hive. Lots of these stats seem overly complicated, subscriptions, cloud etc
Punto, thanks but have ruled Hive out due to not being opentherm compatible.
Ianandanne, thankd, not looked in to Netatmo, will read up.
Just curious why it needs to be opentherm compatible?
 

Toki

Standard Member
A few votes for Netatmo. Haven't had time to look into, will do so this week, thanks.

Fergal82, mainly focusing on Opentherm due to efficiency. My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that these are more efficient and modulates modern boilers rather than the on / off nature of Hive where it is all or nothing it can run at say 50% power.

As my boiler is Opentherm compatible, thought it worthwhile concentrating on thermostats that offer this.
 

PsyVision

Distinguished Member
A few votes for Netatmo. Haven't had time to look into, will do so this week, thanks.

Fergal82, mainly focusing on Opentherm due to efficiency. My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that these are more efficient and modulates modern boilers rather than the on / off nature of Hive where it is all or nothing it can run at say 50% power.

As my boiler is Opentherm compatible, thought it worthwhile concentrating on thermostats that offer this.
It is more efficient but only a small amount compared with going from no stat to basic stat to smart stat from what I read on it.

Be careful with Tado as well in that depending on whether you have an S-Plan setup and you want the TRV to call for heat, you can't use OpenTherm (as I found out once I had bought the adapter for my boiler).
 

Fergal82

Distinguished Member
A few votes for Netatmo. Haven't had time to look into, will do so this week, thanks.

Fergal82, mainly focusing on Opentherm due to efficiency. My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that these are more efficient and modulates modern boilers rather than the on / off nature of Hive where it is all or nothing it can run at say 50% power.

As my boiler is Opentherm compatible, thought it worthwhile concentrating on thermostats that offer this.
Your boiler will modulate anyway. You have a modern boiler so it’s designed to do that by default.

I can recommend hive, easy to use and not overly complicated like some solutions seem to be.

I wouldn’t necessarily rule it out due to this open therm business myself
 

neilball

Well-known Member
Thank again Mark for your comments.

Neil, thanks for your input. Couple of queries on the Evo. It's mainly marketed as a multi zone device, does it work ok as a single zone via the 1 controller? I'm in 2 minds about going down the TRV route. I've got 12 rads. My understanding is I'd be best getting TRVs on most or all rads? If for example I get on half for upstairs and not downstairs, if 1 TRV calls for heat upstairs, all downstairs rads would come on too assuming the manual TRVs are open?

Are you talking about the Honeywell Lyric T6 Neil that stores in the cloud? Pity if that's the case otherwise think that would do the job for me for 1 zone.

Are there any other opentherm smart thermostats that store locally? Any experience of the Ideal Touch?


Punto, thanks but have ruled Hive out due to not being opentherm compatible.
Ianandanne, thankd, not looked in to Netatmo, will read up.
Evo works just fine as a single zone heating controller, it’s just a bit more expensive than more simple single zone smart stats. If you don’t ever intend to go multi-zone then most smart stats operate in a very similar way, so providing they do not use the cloud for basic functions then I’d pick the unit with the better looks and user interface preferred best.

If you do want to go multi-zone then yes, it makes sense to put actuators on the radiators for rooms you want switch off when the heating is on. As Evonis modular you still have the option to build your system over time rathe than doing it all in one go.

And no, the Lyric is not the Songle Zone Stat, the SZS is actually a Y87RF with BDR91 boiler relay and RFG100 ethernet gateway.
 

neilball

Well-known Member
1 more question on the evo, does the controller stay on all the time? 1 review stated how bright it is and had to move away as it couldn't be dimmed or turned off. Thanks
There is a backlight timeout, time controlled “dark” mode etc so not sure why someone would say the display does not dim or can operate is a “less bright” mode. It’s true the display does not switch off completely but I hardly call it a bright distraction at night.
 

VforViennetta

Novice Member
I’ve been using v1 Tado for over 3 years and it’s been fantastic. Almost completely set and forget. In that time I think the cloud service went out for about an hour but didn’t have any noticeable issues for me. The system still works with exception of remote access via the app.
In the context of using it with thermostats on the radiators, does this mean that, if the internet goes down, the only way to control the thermostats is to manually use the control on each valve?

Also, does Tado have some kind of panel like Honeywell evohome?

Can it work with wifi but no internet? Ie if there is wifi connection but the router is not connected to the internet? Or will it refuse to work without the internet so it can spy on you? For example, Google chromecast speakers don't work without the internet, but Sonos speakers do (of course you can only play local content).
 

VforViennetta

Novice Member
But it's one thing to need internet for the firmware updates and quite another to need it for day-to-day functionality. So Tado doesn't work without internet, right? That's one of the things that really grates me about this whole smart-home stuff - I see no technical reason why this stuff requires an internet connection to just send a banal signal from my phone to the thingy, if I am home and there is wifi
 

Toki

Standard Member
Well I decided to go with the Drayton Wiser option and a great deal came up on Amazon for £110 with 2 radiator thermostats. Rest priced at £35. So far so good.

Main reasons for choosing Drayton for me were that all programs are stored locally and were a lot cheaper than Honeywell Evohome. As mentioned above, I ruled out Tado as a result of everything being on their servers. Evohome looks good but much to dear in comparison to Drayton Wiser.

It has only been in 3 days so too early to form a full opinion until it learns the thermal properties of the house. Early thoughts below.

Plus Points
Value for money compared to other options.
Local storage of programs.
Overall I like the app. Its easy to use and see all temps in each room on one screen.
Opentherm option is working and the boiler temp goes down from 60 degrees once the rooms reach desired temp, down to 37 degrees.

Negatives
TRV temp readings accuracy. 1 in particular seems around 2 degrees high all the time. Last night, which was minus temperatures here, they all seemed to go really low. 11 degrees but could be accurate being at floor level rather than old stat on the wall. The old one never went under 14 degrees.
Unable to copy timings and temperatures from 1 room to another on the app.
 

Puntoboy

Active Member
I'm glad you went with that. I've been looking at that system as well.

I just don't understand why the EvoHome system is so expensive. I priced a system up, £383.96 to allow me to control two zone valves and DHW with no TRVs. I'm still not sold on TRVs and the EvoHome seems to be geared towards these instead of zone valves.

Compare that to £139.99 for the Drayton system. OK I lose out on some features, like controlling the DHW temp, but it's not night and day different, they both do a similar job.
 

Toki

Standard Member
Its early days with the TRVs and not sure if I've done the right thing or not yet.

The very nature of them is they come on when required in each room so the boiler so far is rarely off. Heating 1 room then another. It seems to me it would be more efficient heating them at the same time, so may end up grouping them together anyway. For example, having "Bedrooms" rather than "Bedroom 1" and "Bedroom 2" each able to call for heat.

So far I would recommend the basic system and see how you get on, especially at the current price which compares well against Hive, Nest, Evohome, Tado etc. Still only £105 without TRVs for Multizone 2 with HW and £161 with 2. Can always add TRVs if you feel you need them. Otherwise setting manual TRVs could be good enough obviously not able to change temps during the day though.
 

Puntoboy

Active Member
Yeah I get the benefit of smart TRVs, I just don't think they'd been of benefit in our house. We use all the rooms, throughout the day so I've found it perfectly reasonable to have a constant temp/schedule for zone 1 (downstairs) and a different schedule/temp for zone 2 (upstairs). Maybe this will change so I can always add them later on.

The equivalent Hive system will cost me £249 for the new house.
 

Lesmor

Distinguished Member
In the last week I removed Hive along with 10 Hive TRV's and installed Drayton Wiser and there is no comparison DW wins hands down

paid £75.00 for the 2 channel Heating and hot water and the TRV's were £34.00 each

what I find handy is that with the DW Room Thermostat set with a low set point so that it doesn't fire the boiler you can move it from room to room to confirm the accuracy of that rooms TRV temperature

Also if you name the TRV the same as the Room Thermostat the Room stat becomes the Master and it can control up to 4 TRV's with the same name

I would like some additional features but nothings ever perfect
 

Puntoboy

Active Member
In the last week I removed Hive along with 10 Hive TRV's and installed Drayton Wiser and there is no comparison DW wins hands down

paid £75.00 for the 2 channel Heating and hot water and the TRV's were £34.00 each

what I find handy is that with the DW Room Thermostat set with a low set point so that it doesn't fire the boiler you can move it from room to room to confirm the accuracy of that rooms TRV temperature

Also if you name the TRV the same as the Room Thermostat the Room stat becomes the Master and it can control up to 4 TRV's with the same name

I would like some additional features but nothings ever perfect
What features do you think are missing. I’m really interestedin the Wiser system. Have Hive currently but moving house and have to pay either £150 to get it removed and refitted or £250 for new stuff in the new house.
 

Lesmor

Distinguished Member
What features do you think are missing. I’m really interestedin the Wiser system. Have Hive currently but moving house and have to pay either £150 to get it removed and refitted or £250 for new stuff in the new house.
If your moving and have an old CH controller you should be able to remove Hive your self at no cost
I kept my Hive Hub just to control Hive bulbs

Anyway back to DW most things I would like are nice to have

one thing to note is that you cannot set a local temperature on the TRV it only has a +/- 2 deg boost dial

although it has an away mode it is not as good as Hives Holiday Mode

No Windows 10 app so you can set up schedules on a Laptop ( you could use an android emulator)

you cant turn Off the call for heat and have the TVR as stand alone only reporting and controlling the room temperature

you cant tell if a device is on schedule or manual from the Home screen

there is no Off mode this has to be done by turning each device temperature to zero then the device shows Off

No temperature off-set

it seems like a lot but considering how bad Hive TRV's are its not enough to put me off
 

Puntoboy

Active Member
Ah ok. Mostly TRV related. I have no plans to fit TRVs. We currently have two Hive stats, one for each zone valve. Works for us.

I do have the original stats and programmer but the BG engineer that fitted Hive had a nightmare fitting it and suggested the wiring wasn’t standard. We live in a new build, sonot sure why. £150 was for another engineer/plumber to come out, removeHove, then refit in the new house. To be honest, I’m also using it as a bit of an excuse to look at another system. I don’t like that Hive’s API is cloud based as well so something local would be better.
 

Lesmor

Distinguished Member
Ah ok. Mostly TRV related. I have no plans to fit TRVs. We currently have two Hive stats, one for each zone valve. Works for us.

I do have the original stats and programmer but the BG engineer that fitted Hive had a nightmare fitting it and suggested the wiring wasn’t standard. We live in a new build, sonot sure why. £150 was for another engineer/plumber to come out, removeHove, then refit in the new house. To be honest, I’m also using it as a bit of an excuse to look at another system. I don’t like that Hive’s API is cloud based as well so something local would be better.
Yeah just as well writing it off and start fresh
 

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