Question Which small sub??

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by themachomanrandysavage, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. themachomanrandysavage

    themachomanrandysavage
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    Hi total beginner here

    I am putting together my first starter home cinema setup and need a steer on which sub to get please
    I’m limited in what I can do due to room size (3x3.5m) so need something quite small (ideally depth 30cm ish, )
    I’ve got to a Bk elec Gemini as there to beat
    Also thought about a epsilon planet as this would fit as well but not sure it’s worth extra cash
    Budget up to £400 ish
    I have a parquet floor so if the Gemini need to decide about DF or not

    Any views? Info on rest of setup below
    Thanks in advance

    LG C8 65 tv
    Denon avr 3500 av
    5 x cambridge audio minx 22s
    (At some point 2 ceiling speakers for atoms but not straight away)
     
  2. Gasp3621

    Gasp3621
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    BK XLS200 - DF would be 34cm depth wise, so not much more than Gemini. There is few available from BK`s ebay "grade-b" site. These are new with full warranty.
    BK Electronics XLS200-DF MK2 Powered Subwoofer. Light Oak 5060403220141 | eBay

    BK Electronics XLS200-DF MK2 Powered Subwoofer. Black 5060403220189 | eBay

    BK Electronics XLS200-DF MK2 Powered Subwoofer. Gloss White 5060403220226 | eBay

    BK Electronics XLS200-DF MK2 Powered Subwoofer. Gloss Black 5060403220202 | eBay

    Though if you could save up for little more i would pick SVS SB1000 which is quite popular choice partnered with Minx 22s in US (SB2000 too). This sub measures 13" all sides (33cm) with 12" driver and 300w DSP controlled amp. It comes down will you want little extra performance over the XLS200 which also work nicely in small space with room gain. When buying subwoofer and if there is something better close to your budget, it`s often wiser to save up little bit more assuming you want the best product with small size in mind. Then there will be no buyers remorse and no need to eye upgrades for longer time as some people tend to do. But people also have different tastes / requirements when it comes to subwoofers, so choose how you feel.
    SVS SB1000 Black Ash Subwoofer - Subwoofers - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

    Definitely BK or SVS over that Planet sub.
     
  3. Ultrasonic

    Ultrasonic
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    It's more what's underneath that matters. Is it a concrete floor or a suspended wooden floor? Downfiring is usually advised to be fine on concrete floor but not on suspended floors.

    Bear in mind that whatever sub you buy, the side where the connectors and mains lead go will need a bit more space than the sub dimensions alone.

    Do you really need the sub to be quite as small as the Gemini? Allowing yourself to go a bit larger would give you better performance within budget. Sticking with BK subs they don't look too obtrusive in their wood finished IMHO.
     
  4. themachomanrandysavage

    themachomanrandysavage
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    Thanks for both of the replies above they are really helpful to me
    Pretty sure it is solid under the parquet floor - ground floor, stone built house from 50s
    I can stretch the budget a bit if needed (the Svs can be in range albeit I don’t want dark wood - white or natural wood so it starts to mean £620 which is really pushing on - already bought lots and total beginner)
    I really am quite space constrained. Strong preference not to be going too big
    What really caught my eye was a Bk elec p12-300 but that looks like 40cm. Otherwise looks fantastic
    P12-300SB-DF
    Suppose it’s like everything in life - what compromise do I want to make! :)
     
  5. WozzaB

    WozzaB
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    Hi,
    I was in the same position a couple of months ago.

    I bought a Gemini II to replace a Q sub that was part of the 7000i setup, the sub was decent but wasn't cutting it in my room, the Gemini was a step up but not quite enough, so I sold it and bought an XLS200.

    It's a fairly big step up in performance in my experience in my room, which is 4.4m x 4.2m and the footprint for the two is pretty much the same.

    It seems great value, but I haven't owned anything bigger and better to compare it to though!
     
  6. Ultrasonic

    Ultrasonic
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    My gut feeling is that if it physically fits you'd find you got used to the size of a slightly larger sub fairly quickly, just like people tend to with TVs. On the other hand I know at least for myself I'd be more likely to end up wondering longer term if I might have preferred a bigger sub for better performance.
     
  7. WozzaB

    WozzaB
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    Yeah I agree, however it's at a level I'm very happy with in our room, having neighbours above is also a consideration for me! I have been upstairs to listen to how it sounds when I watching a movie quite loud, their floor vibrates quite a bit, but everything is concrete!

    I might get something bigger and better when buy a house in a year or so!

    I do get the whole "what if" scenario, I made that mistake getting the Gemini II!
     
  8. Ultrasonic

    Ultrasonic
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    I was replying to the OP, not you. We cross-posted.

    Edit: I always quote people when responding to them to avoid confusion.
     
  9. WozzaB

    WozzaB
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    Oh! well hopefully the info was useful to the OP:)
     
  10. Gasp3621

    Gasp3621
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    Well if it fits there with few possible placements in mind, it`s great option! I didn`t link P12 as you mentioned the depth limitation. BK has larger cabinet than SB1000, but specs wise they are very similar and likely real world performance aswell. It´s no suprise why this sub has become a forum favourite in the low budget range.

    There is actually light oak P12-DF as "grade-b" for 330£ + 10£ delivery (400£ at main site) so easy savings. :)
    BK Electronics P12-300SB-DF Light Oak Subwoofer 5060403220950 | eBay
     
  11. themachomanrandysavage

    themachomanrandysavage
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    Ok thanks again this really is very helpful to me
    Been doing further thinking / research on here of other threads / measuring of my room etc!
    I think up to 40cm will actually be ok so that helps
    One thing I have become aware of is my minx speakers don’t go down that low so I need a sub that goes up quite high (sorry don’t know official terminology here) otherwise there will be a blackspot in the sound range produced.
    From reading on here both the SVS 1000/2000 and the XLt subs (10.17 I think) cover that aspect. Does anyone know if the P12 would?
    I’ve been reading a lot about just invest cash now on something really good which I get/am prepared to do if it will make a difference - but given I am a beginnner / room is only 3x3.5m / I have just shelled out on everything else I would rather not spend 600-800 if c400 or less I’d grade B ok n a p12 will cut it!
    I know this is subjective etc but just after a little more guidance please before plunging in as I am pretty clueless....
     
  12. Ultrasonic

    Ultrasonic
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    A quick Google suggests your Minx 22s only go down to 120 Hz?

    Looking at the back photos of the BK P12 this is the upper limit of it's filtered range so I'd be inclined to contact them to ask.

    (This get a bit complicated depending how low the output is at 120 Hz from your speakers, in that commonly both -3 dB and -6 dB ranges can be quoted.)

    A different question is how/if you can configure everything to send all sound up to 120 Hz to your sub, which is not something I know about. You'll also probably want to be placing your sub somewhere in between your two front speakers if you can, since running it to higher frequencies like this means you're more likely to be able to hear where the sound is coming from.

    Out of interest, were you not given any advice on this when you bought your Minx speakers? Or did you buy them second hand?
     
  13. Ultrasonic

    Ultrasonic
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    I'll just add that very few people here are likely to run subs to such a high frequency, with 80 Hz being the norm I believe. As such you'll probably find it hard to get much first hand experience of people using subs as you want.

    Hopefully a few people will be along shortly to prove me wrong though :).
     
  14. WozzaB

    WozzaB
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    My speakers are small Q7000i's and they go down to 95hz and I have the crossover for them set to 110hz with the sub set to 120hz, it all seems to integrate fine, after some tweaking, can't tell where the bass is coming from and the sub is to the left of the TV.

    I presume this can all change with speaker and sub choice, room size and shape though?

    This is still all pretty new me to me as well by the way!
     
  15. themachomanrandysavage

    themachomanrandysavage
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    Hi I bought my minx 22s new - didn’t have any awareness of any of all this when I bought them (from RS). Won’t blame them, as I say total beginner walked in and said I’d like those (looked unobtrusive so would get domestic sign off, were reasonably priced, & listened to them in 5.1 setup with a Cambridge aero 9 that I think goes up quite high).... No chance of changing them them for a while (when I can swap them into a different room) so just need to work with them.

    Can place sub between fronts ok

    So I think where I am currently at is,
    subject to learning / finding about this crossover issue is:

    -Cambridge aero 9 (think will complement minxs well but not sure about overall quality), low price
    -bk elec p12 (I will ring them up next week ), ok price
    Svs sb 1000 (don’t think I need the 2000), believe from gasp3621 and others it works with minxs well, looking at 600 ish in white so getting pricey but not beyond stretch
    Xtz 10.17 (I know zero about these)
     
  16. Gasp3621

    Gasp3621
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    @themachomanrandysavage I think BK`s Tom said all their subs play much higher when the subwoofers internal crossover is passed (Filter Out/LFE position) as you will let your receiver do bass management (set speaker size all small). But by all means call them so you can be sure then. I asked this when i bought BK Gemini II which doesn`t have any problems to play higher. Sadly i don`t think i have the email anymore as it has been 10years likely?

    For those Minx 22s Cambridge Audio recommends 140hz crossovers, especially if you play louder, but check what you got after Audussey run and don`t tweak those settings to lower. You can always raise a bit if needed. The 140hz was in manual or some spec sheet as i have owned Minxes.

    Keep us posted what Tom says! P12 is still price-performance king. 330£ vs. 600£ for very similar performance. :) Also forget the Aero 9.
     
  17. sm1ggsy

    sm1ggsy
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    My speakers are all set at 120hz and I have a bk p12 sub in a 4x4 mtr room it sound fantastic you will be fine
     
  18. themachomanrandysavage

    themachomanrandysavage
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    So rang Bk elec and all the above checks out - the p12 can run up to 250hz if you put it on the right setting for the AVR to sort it out. So I’m planning to order one tonight. Thanks for your help!
     

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