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Which Recorder to Get?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Indiana Jones, Jan 3, 2004.

  1. Indiana Jones

    Indiana Jones
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    Probaley been asked before but for the first time in ages I actually have some money and feel like getting a DVD Recorder.

    I went into Curry's yesterday to just have a look at what they had and they only had the Panasonic E60 for £450, a Sony RDRGX3 for £500 and a Philips Recorder for £300.

    I know that Philips can only write +R/RW so wasent interested in that but was interested in the Sony because it said it can do -R/RW and +R/RW, but then again I have heard many good things about the Panasonic machines, any advice would be welcome.

    Also, what is the major difference between the Panasonic E50 and E60 because there is like £100 between them and if the E60 only offers minor extras I would go with the E50 but if it has major extras I might consider the E60
     
  2. Garrett

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  3. jem

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  4. Johndm

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    E60 multiregion £336 at Digital Point inc free next day delevery..
     
  5. JAMBO

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    Main difference between the E50 and E60 is whether or not you edit from a camcorder.
    If you do......... get the E60
    If you don't..... get the E50
     
  6. Johndm

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    But if you get the E60, its a damm good excuse to get a Digital Camcorder..:laugh:
     
  7. JAMBO

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    Yeah, and I could record my own death, as the wife murders me for spending even more money. :laugh:
     
  8. Johndm

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    You could tell her you got it cheap on Ebay, then she might only break your legs..:smashin:

    Indiana, the E50 and E60 are VERY much the same, but the E60 has SD and PC card slots on the front.

    Not tried these yet, but as soon as I can find a mate with a card to plug in, (to demonstrate to the missus)..............

    Very happy with mine so far, just added a Pioneer FV box, as it seems such a waste to use a DVD recorder to record a kakky analogue TV signal for timeshifting..:D
     
  9. steve 111

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    In What HiFi this month the E50 came out a clear winner. Amazon.co.uk have them now for £250 which is a steal. As previously mentioned you only need an E60 if use a Digi camcorder and/or a Digi camera.
     
  10. kenfowler3966

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    Fortunately my wife wanted the camcorder, and it has hardly been used since, less than 5 hours recorded in 2 years. Everytime she complains about how much my HS2 cost I can remind her that it is used every day, and cost nearly the same as the camcorder......., and the hs2 has turned the camera dv output into dvd discs which even she could manage to play on the tv!
     
  11. Indiana Jones

    Indiana Jones
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    Thank for the advice everyone, since only the Panasonic has been mentioned I take it that is the favourite.

    I do have a Digital Camcorder but have only used it once, bought it for the Fairford Air Show, probaley next time it will be used will be then so guess I will go for the Panasonic E50.

    Also, I knew as I was standing in Curry's that I could get the E60 off the net for cheaper but didnt realise how much cheaper, if I had bought it from them I would be kicking myself now hehe

    So if I am getting the Panasonic E50, where is the best place to get it from, amazon.co.uk or pay more and get it from somewhere else?
     
  12. bobbles

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    what an odd thing to say

    suprisingly amazon was the cheapest I found too but it is not multiregion. If that isn't an issue go for amazon. They are an excellent online retailer. The E50 seems to have gone up in price recently.

    If you would rather buy from the high street Lewis' price match if the online store has a shop too. Many if not most do.

    Cheapest multiregion I found was 280ish from 247


    However, what equipment will you be connecting to the dvdr

    sky, sky+, freeview etc

    do you plan to keep your recordings or do you intend to watch and wipe

    do you have a pc with a ram drive to edit your recordings


    if you intend to watch and wipe RAM (excellent editable medium) is a problem as you will only be able to play this on your panasonic. You could buy an excellent S35 multiregion for 80 if you want to play the recordings elsewhere.

    you could get the JVC dvdr which records to -rw which would play on other machines. However, it does not accept an rgb input so really you need to have sky+ or it is a non-starter

    (as are pretty much all the other machines)

    If you wish to keep your recordings and do not have a ram drive on your pc then an onboard HDD is ESSENTIAL as this is the only way you will be able to edit your recordings (wipe ads etc)

    3 models available currently

    Tosh XS30 60Gb Drive (under £500)
    Poineer 5100 80Gb Drive (mid £600)
    Panasonic HS2 / E100 40Gb / 80Gb (mid £500 / mid £700)

    again unless you have sky+ the HS2 would be your best bet this can be had for 530 multiregion

    avoid the sony it is way overpriced as is the norm for sony products and avoid the philips for very different reasons
     
  13. Indiana Jones

    Indiana Jones
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    Multiregion doesnt matter to me, I only said about buying elsewhere because if anything goes wrong it is alot easier to take it back to a shop rather than send it back to an online retailer.

    Also, I have Freeview and would probaley be watching and wiping on the Recorder only but would like to remove advert breaks but dont have a DVD Ram drive in my computer only a Pioneer 105 DVD Writer so guess that would mean I would want a Recorder with a Hard Drive.

    One question about Recorders with Hard Drives though, once you have recorded and edited the program, can you then burn it to DVD-R so it can be played on other dvd players or does it have to remain on the Hard Drive?
     
  14. bobbles

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    yes, but you do seem a little unsure about what editing you can do

    with a HD recorder you record material to the HDD. Edit the material. Then burn to ram or -r. On the Poineer and Tosh this is done at high speed.

    Unless you intend to keep your recordings there is no point getting one with a HDD. You can edit on ram or -rw but this can not be then burnt onto -r without a HDD

    basic editing can be done on -rw and the material can still be played on most other machines.

    they can also de edited to RAM standards but this means the material can not be played on other machines

    if your freeview can output an s-video signal I would recommend you buy either the JVC (£300) or the Poineer 3100 (£350) (more expensive but a better machine) as these both support -rw allowing you to edit your recordings and play on other machines

    if it can only output an rgb signal then go for an e50 from amazon
    (it is very unlikely you will have problems if you do and it is their fault i would imagine they refund the postage). However, if you want to play your recordings on other machines you will need to record to -r, no editing and they can not be re-used

    disc types

    -r (60p each)

    can be played on 99% of machines. Only edit realtime (i.e. pausing when ads come on)

    -rw (1.40 each)

    can be played on most machines with basic editing. more advanced editing VR mode means it will not play on other machines

    -ram (£5 double sided ram, double the space)

    can only be played on ram machines, s35 etc


    hope this helps it is a difficult choice
     
  15. Indiana Jones

    Indiana Jones
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    I have a few more questions if anyone can help...

    1) If I get an HS2 and one night I record a tv program onto dvd-ram and afterwards think, that was a great program, I want to keep it on DVD-R, can I trasnfer it from the RAM disc onto the Recorders Hard Drive or can you only Record directly from the TV onto the Hard Drive?

    2) If I record something on the Hard Drive, then edit out all the adverts and stuff I dont want, how long will it take to get it onto a dvd-r, can it be burned like a dvd writer does or do you have to go through the entire length of the program in real time?

    3) Is there a DVD Recorder that has a onboard Hard Drive which also records to RAM/-R/-RW
     
  16. bobbles

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    Quick answers

    1) yes but in real time
    2) hs2 realtime, Pioneer/Tosh High speed dub.
    3) yes -r / -ram only
    4) no but the tosh dr1 does support all 3 no HD though

    longer

    The main difference between the Pioneer/Tosh and the HS2 in the way that they record is that with the HS2 you record material to the HD at a very high bit rate (using up lots of space 9hrs fills the HD) then if you want to put it onto -r the hs2 record it again re-encoded the data at a different rate.

    The Tosh / Pioneer make an exact digital copy of whatever is on the HDD onto -r (no loss of quality) at high speed. 6hours can be reocrded to -r in under 1 hr.

    this makes them a more advanced and better machines IMO

    the poineer supports -r/-rw the tosh / hs2 support -r/-ram
     
  17. Indiana Jones

    Indiana Jones
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    Thanks for that, guess the choice is between the Panasonic HS2 or the Toshiba XS30 now, its quite abit of money so dont want to make the wrong choice.
     
  18. bobbles

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    you need to find out if your freeview box can output s-video

    if it can go for the tosh xs30 it is a better machine imo

    for a comparison between the hs2 and tosh read my thread on this forum it may be on page 2/3 now though
     
  19. bobbles

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    for lots more info try the digitalspy forums

    there is a thread about the xs30 which convinced me. Before i read that thread i was going to buy th hs2 I am very glad I read it in time
     
  20. phelings

    phelings
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    Forget the blurb about the Sony-it records to +RW,but not +R.The Tosh and the Pioneer both do high speed dubbing-but the HDD recording and the DVDR recording have to be at the same quality level.You cannot use HS if you want to do a XP recording in FR on disc.
    You can of course record on the HDD using the correct bit rate for the recording then do a direct digital dub,but if you do an overnight run of,say Simpsons from Sky+ to the HDD,you would have to add in the time for all the ads and other unwanted material.A 3 hour run from Sky edits down to about 2 hours.This is the main thing stopping me from changing my HS2 to a different model.I need one that copies at high speed from HDD-DVD regardless of the quality settings.Currently I use XP on the HDD then transfer to DVD-R at FR.I want to do this at high speed.
    I read that one of the HDD/DVDR devices does not allow "divide" on HDD-which one?
     
  21. pd45

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    You can divide on the HDD of the Pioneer - so that's that one ruled out!! :)
     
  22. bobbles

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    you can combine two separate titles into one on the tosh but not split a title into two

    you can split it into whatever chapters you like mind you

    the only way you can split into separate titles is to create playlists which are very quick and easy to do

    I've never understood why you think this is a problem you record at the bit rate which would fill the disc when edited. Say for example with the simpsons, you know each episode lasts roughly 21 minutes edited. So if you want 8 episodes you record a bit rate which fills the disc at 168mins. You wouldn't record at a bit rate of the sky+ copy length that would be nuts

    (in your example you record at a 2hrs bit rate not the 3hr)

    this does of course mean you need to roughly work out the edited record length before recording to the HDD but when you are recording the same programme this really isn't difficult to do.

    There is of course a tiny amount of spare but when the bit rates go up in .2 this makes no difference. If you do manage to go slightly over, i've not done this yet, over you would just re-encode 1 episode. Pretty quick and painless.

    Also remember the tosh makes can record to the entire space of a -r which the HS2 can not do.

    TBH I wouldn't upgrade from a HS2 to a XS30 the difference isn't big enough to merit it unless you get a good price for your HS2
     
  23. Indiana Jones

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    After reading that thread on the other forum it had convinced me the Toshiba DVD Recorder is a better buy than the Panasonic, RGB doesnt really matter to much to me as my VHS is only connected to my TV via aerial at the moment so anything will be an improvment.

    Now I just have to find somewhere that does it for a good price and does anyone know if it comes with a DVD-RAM disc?
     
  24. bobbles

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    glad that helped is it obvious who I am on those forums?

    i got mine from digital point for 495 and yes it came with a free ram in a caddy

    if you buy more ram buy type 2

    try pricerunner for the best price

    someone on that thread now claims to have a multiregion version

    as for ram

    I use big pockets for all my discs, svp are quite good too
     
  25. Phil.LFC

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    I know it's irrelevant to Indiana Jones now but might interest others searching for Panny E50 info:

    Argos are selling it for £279 in their sale, obviously it is not MR, but they have a great returns policy.
     
  26. Indiana Jones

    Indiana Jones
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    Would never touch Bigpockets, had way to much trouble with them and I am not alone there, always buy my stuff from SVP, never had a problem with them.

    Done a quick search and cheapest I have found the Toshiba for is £493.97inc Delivery but dont know if it comes with a DVD-RAM disc.

    Also, the Panasonic E50 is £249 from amazon.co.uk so if you were going for and E50 I would get it from them.
     
  27. Phil.LFC

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    Yes, but you said earlier that you'd think about paying more to buy it from a shop incase it was faulty ;)
     
  28. bobbles

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    if it was and you needed to return it I am sure amazon refund postage

    i certainly wouldn't pay 30 more

    cheapest I have seen is 483 inc delivery someone posted on the other thread you read. Also it seems you can now get a MR version if that interests you
     
  29. Indiana Jones

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    Good point :blush: guess it comes down to how good the retailer is, if they have good customer service you know you wont have any problems if a problem appears.
     
  30. phelings

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    You answered for me.Having to work out the running time of the final edit is hopeless.Its ok for something like regular tv where you know the time,but for camcorder editing,or other such uses its no good.I sometimes fill up 9 hours at XP and edit out up to 5 hours,but do not know beforehand.The high speed dub is a great bonus,but has limited use for me.In fact,the Simpsons example is the only actual one I can think of where HSD would be any use
     

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