Which power amp to add to Denon avr-x4500h With Klipsch for Atmos 7.2.4

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
@DodgeTheViper had a 6 channel Emotiva Gen-3 for sale a couple of weeks ago. Not sure if he sold it or not, but if not, it will be as good as anything for the money.

I took it off due to lack of interest and may just keep it. My ultimate plan was to add a 5 channel amp but I may just add a 3 channel instead.
 

tigertiger12

Active Member
I took it off due to lack of interest and may just keep it. My ultimate plan was to add a 5 channel amp but I may just add a 3 channel instead.

Thanks,

I understand many people use a 3 channel amp for the fronts and centre channel or 5 channel for fronts, centre and surround.

Many are not much more from even 2 channel to 8 channel, i'm looking at Nord amps, but open to research any. My idea was to buy new and resell on within a month if I don't feel it's worth it. I would keep the 8 channel even if I only used it for the fronts and centre and get improved sound quality. Overall £400 more for 8 channel over 2 is not much at the starter level amps. 8 Channel gives me more options to try and learn more. There are many posts experiencing improved sound quality using a power amp and bi amping, everyones experiences are different and as I'm getting mixed information here I figure i'm best to just try it myself.

I was wondering what your experience was with adding a power amp and did you add this to an AVR, if so which one and with which speakers? Then also why you wish to change your amp? Spending more to get a better quality amp? or another reason.
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
I was wondering what your experience was with adding a power amp and did you add this to an AVR, if so which one and with which speakers? Then also why you wish to change your amp? Spending more to get a better quality amp? or another reason.

Yes, they have all been used with a AVR. Over the past 10 years or so there have been a few AVR's passing my way from Denon, Anthem and Marantz. There have been a few speaker brands during that period as well.
I was changing it for configuration and space reasons.
 

tigertiger12

Active Member
Yes, they have all been used with a AVR. Over the past 10 years or so there have been a few AVR's passing my way from Denon, Anthem and Marantz. There have been a few speaker brands during that period as well.
I was changing it for configuration and space reasons.

What improvements did you notice? I guess you feel it's worth it as you have been through a few.

From your experience I was wondering what you think about me adding a power amp or if you think i'm wasting my time adding a power amp to denon x4500 and klipsch speakers?
 

tigertiger12

Active Member
If anyone else wishes to comment please feel free.
you can PM if you wish as others have done so.
Thanks for all the good advice and recommendations.
 

simonb3665

Active Member
There is some very useful feedback mixed in here for people who want to analyse whether they need to upgrade power or put their resources to a different use. If you want the peace of mind of a power amp though then there is not much downside if you have the rack space and spare cash. Some power amps may introduce a hum in sensitive speakers and transformer hum annoys me on some I have owned (Emotiva). Good class d is the way I would go. Hypex based is good along with Purifi. Look at Nord online and decide what you want to spend and you will not go far wrong. Big class a/b make you feel like you have got more for your ££s and look more impressive in the rack.
For other's benefit can you post your filter technique for mixing ported and sealed subs in different rooms at and below tune?
 

Rambles

Distinguished Member
If you want the peace of mind of a power amp though then there is not much downside
As long as it is correctly matched to the pre-amp.
 

Spartan01

Standard Member
This thread could have been answered very simply in one page. Per Tiger’s ask [not all the superfluous advice others seem to want to force on him]. No need to give him crap for his English or translations either, that’s just straight petty, elitism.

Get an outlaw amp. Reliable, affordable and strong enough for your purposes. If not Outlaw, Monoprice; still affordable, reliable and enough power. EMO have always been decent, but recent versions have been reported as bright, some with issues and their customer service has apparently degraded. Still a great product, but go into those fully aware. 👍🏽

Good luck Tiger!
 

rccarguy

Active Member
This thread could have been answered very simply in one page. Per Tiger’s ask [not all the superfluous advice others seem to want to force on him]. No need to give him crap for his English or translations either, that’s just straight petty, A$$hole, elitism.

Get an outlaw amp. Reliable, affordable and strong enough for your purposes. If not Outlaw, Monoprice; still affordable, reliable and enough power. EMO have always been decent, but recent versions have been reported as bright, some with issues and their customer service has apparently degraded. Still a great product, but go into those fully aware. 👍🏽

Good luck Tiger!


Depends which country he's from, Outlaw and Monoprice aren't available in the UK. The higher end Outlaws and Monoprices are made by ATI.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I think you can't go wrong with:
Nord One MP NCXXX 5-8 122-500W Custom Configurable Channel Amplifier Black | nordacoustics

Get 7 channels. If you don't like it, sell it to me for a discount please ;)

@tigertiger12

Klipsch seem to get a lot of haters and people who seem to think they know everything about every single one of their speakers despite their range being gigantic... I'm sure your speakers sound amazing.

Also, I had to click the 'show ignored content' to see the constant harassment from rcaguy towards yourself.. despite you telling him you don't need his suggestions. I've had a similar experience and recommend just adding him to the ignore list as its much easier and the input is largely antagonistic and immature more than it is useful. :) :) :) ;)
 

Escobar01

Active Member
Quite low gain on that amp. What is the input sensivity?
all specs on their website.
For 1600Euro it's hard to find anything better.
Another option is to add decent stereo amplifier to run 2 front channels and let avr yo do the rest, also 2 channel D class Amp worth to consider.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
all specs on their website.
For 1600Euro it's hard to find anything better.
Another option is to add decent stereo amplifier to run 2 front channels and let avr yo do the rest, also 2 channel D class Amp worth to consider.
Can't see input sensivity
 

Escobar01

Active Member
To be honest,I 've been thru this journey 2 years ago and must say 6 channel amp put new live to my system. Yamaha/ Apollon combo works pretty damm well. For music I have decent stereo valve amplifier to feed only 2 front channels.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
To be honest,I 've been thru this journey 2 years ago and must say 6 channel amp put new live to my system. Yamaha/ Apollon combo works pretty damm well. For music I have decent stereo valve amplifier to feed only 2 front channels.

Yamaha AVR have low voltage pre outputs!
 

rccarguy

Active Member
so it should work even better with author's Demon avr.😁
Yup but you may want to read rambles Arcam AVR thread, as it effects your poweramp (low gain, high voltage input required for full power)

You won't be able to get full power from your amps with your existing Yamaha.
 

dts197

Distinguished Member
Need to match with a decent AVR then 2.4v is hefty amount. Yamaha AVR won't be good match at all. Denon and Marantz best bet
If someone is already using this combination with good results, why do you say they need a decent avr? It's like you have a grudge against Yamaha.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
If someone is already using this combination with good results, why do you say they need a decent avr? It's like you have a grudge against Yamaha.

Funny, I've owned three Yamaha AVR. They are great for relability, and sound quality.
However power amplifier and pre out voltages are lousy.

The two will work, but not ideal. He won't be able to get full output from the amps, at certain point due to mismatch. Need to do some math.

It's exactly the same as Rambles thread, with Arcam AVR 1v pre out max, so it won't work with specific power amps, and really only works the best with their own Arcam poweramps.
 

thumprchgo

Novice Member
Didn't say I was at the maximum but that I was near full volume and have no headroom really.

I will be adding a power amp and if it doesn't achieve what I want I will sell it.
But this is not the advice I'm getting elsewhere also.
Doesn't really make sense, it is common and others do it wilth a similar setup, i'm doing doing anything odd. There is about 50 - 60w getting to my speakers which can handle much more and I have no headroom. With a power amp, I will get more volume, headroom and less stress on my Denon which gets quite hot so I have a fan on top of it to cool it automatically.
I just googled the Denon 4500H manual for the details. It says

"…the power amplifier provides identical quality for all 9-channels (165 Watts x 9-channels)"

The difference between 165 and 200 watts could be noticed on speakers capable of handling them. But it would be very small indeed. Most of the heavy lifting, and a huge draw on power is in the 20 - 150 Hz range, the large part if that is the two subs. You don't mention the volume of the space you listen in, which would dramatically affect your perception of loudness. With high sens speakers like your Klipsch, your amp is plenty powerful for a medium-large room, maybe 12 x 18 with 8 ft ceiling.

I have the Denon 4400H in a 5.2.4 Atmos setup. I did try a 7.2.4 setup and went down to my current setup because the additional rear surrounds didn't add much for me, nor friends I asked to help me A/B the differences.

You don't mention the crossover settings for the subs, but being an SVS 2000 owner, I can't imagine that those subs don't blow you out of the room even set at the initial 12 noon setting on the sub amps.

I used to think of the watts handling of speakers needed to be matched with the amp. It is important to be in range. But it doesn't have to match. Think of the Watts as the upper limit before the speakers blow out. Or the amp will send blow a fuse. The sensitivity range is more useful in home theater settings.

A very sensitive speaker for a center channel (70% of a movie's sound energy) and very INsensitive surrounds (requires more power from the amps to match center speaker general level) would give that Denon amp a hard life.

But to answer what amp? I'd upgrade the Denon to flagship level. Or a big Emotiva. When using Audyssey or Dirac or REW for timing and phase corrections, trying to spread that between four or five amps is honestly a challenge.

And it is more critical to do with separate power amps. Dolby Atmos and other 3D audio codecs, need very precise timing— so sounds simultaneously arrive at the listener seat. That is important for the helicopter's overhead flight path to be "believed" by your brain. (The aliens walking "upstairs" in A Quiet Place? It still makes me want to check my attic!)

Here is the amp manual: Denon manual for X4500H
 

Rambles

Distinguished Member
"…the power amplifier provides identical quality for all 9-channels (165 Watts x 9-channels)"
But, crucially, not if all 9 channels are being used at the same time. That is just for one of the channels to be used.

The 4200 was measured by Sound & Vision, into 8 ohms at 0.1% THD, 7 channels measured at 76.8 watts, so it will be a bit less for 9 channels.
 

rccarguy

Active Member
Denon 4xxx has been testexld 76w with 7 channels driven.

So now way 165 x9 as that breaks laws of physics. Maybe inside it has physics breaker whatchacallit device inside.
 

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