Which One - Denon PMA-600NE orRotel A11 Tribute ?

robdmarsh

Active Member
Synergy, synergy and synergy again. That's what really counts I believe, and when you find it it's like a 3D picture snapping into focus. Yes, home trialing is so important, but I do think that with people feeling the pinch of inflation etc dealers will have to be more accommodating in allowing this, in fact I think some dealers already are more customer focused to adapt to the new economic climate.
 

Ascotbilly

Well-known Member
Cheers Rob - I’ll look that up, aside from the obvious Nirvana The Man Who…I can’t recall many Bowie covers. Been listening to him since schooldays mid 80’s but always playing catch up as I didn’t own most LPs then lost interest until 5-6 years ago. I’ve still a lot of Bowie to relisten too. Station to Station and Young Americans have always be in my top 5 albums,
 
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Ascotbilly

Well-known Member
Will be taking a break from these and other forums for a while, plus reading reviews and trying new items so I can just relax and enjoy and be grateful for what I have.

Good luck everyone. Take care.
`Stick around mate - Just stay to the what have you listened to and 15 tracks threads and keep your Visa in your wallet :D
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
I did consider the Brio, but frankly, I don't like how it looks. Strongly. Plus they are now £700 new and if I were to spend that much I would probably spend a little more and get something else.

I don't think my issues with the ELAC DBR62s are just due to the Rotel. Other reviewers and owners have had similar issues with different equipment. Reviewers almost unanimously say it needs careful partnering and prefers higher end equipment. Plus, it did the same thing on NAD. To me, it's just a demanding speaker. I am happy with my Rotel and Q Acoustics combination. The sound is detailed enough, the soundstage wide, imaging good enough for me, instrument seperation nice, bass is tight, full and well controlled. Sure, other speakers I have had (MA Silvers) technically sounded better, but I found then tiring for other reasons. They certainly didn't sound thin.

All in all, the danger of reading HiFi forums and reviews is that you start to doubt your own investments and feel discontent, imagining better can be had. And I am sure it can... I could spend more, and can afford more, but sound quality isn't what is most important to me. I want the music to inspire and touch my heart. What I have does that better than anything I've ever owned. I am sure there is "better", but I have been reflecting on this for the last two days and have decided to learn to be content with what I have instead of trying to make it better. Plus, I would prefer to use the money for other things that are important to me: health, home, holidays, savings.

Will be taking a break from these and other forums for a while, plus reading reviews and trying new items so I can just relax and enjoy and be grateful for what I have.

Good luck everyone. Take care.
Totally get where you're coming from, enjoy your break and your music.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Rega looks like brick! Why they do not update their design is beyond me, Nad did it.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
I remember I owned the Marantz PM7200. I loved it to bits! Then I bought the Marantz PM15-S1.

Is it better, certainly not! But after changing my speakers it was. So you might need to change the speakers with new amplifier.

They you don’t. Hifi is not always so easy.
 

Hobie65

Novice Member
Yes, and others (MA Bronze 1, Dali Spektor 2, Dali Oberon 1, Rogers LS4a, Polk S15e, Cambridge Minx XL). Curiosity got the best of me ;) Also seem easily fatigued by how many speakers are voiced, regardless of the amp I use (Denon, Marantz, Cambridge, Rotel). It took me a while to find what works for me personally. They are all good speakers and amps. It was simply an idiosyncratic issue.
Hi, looking at a small bookshelf speaker for my Rotel A11 and interested in trying Minx XL.
Looking for small bookshelf speaker that sounds detailed a low volume for jazz, classical and bit of everything.

how was A11 and Minx XL? My local store has Martin Login motion 15I and Project speaker box 5, anyone here have experienced these speakers?
interested in your testing.

tks
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
No, but for jazz then Sonus Faber is excellent.
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Hi, looking at a small bookshelf speaker for my Rotel A11 and interested in trying Minx XL.
Looking for small bookshelf speaker that sounds detailed a low volume for jazz, classical and bit of everything.

how was A11 and Minx XL? My local store has Martin Login motion 15I and Project speaker box 5, anyone here have experienced these speakers?
interested in your testing.

tks
Hi,

I enjoyed the Minx XL speakers, and they pair well with the A11 Tribute. I used them mostly at low volume with singer-songwriter and instrumental music, and they have a sweet quality to them and seemed good at low volumes. I used them and more or less midfield setup (1.5m apart), and they were very enjoyable to me. Be warned though, these speakers are not great when pushed, so if you have a large room or plan to sit more than 2m from them, then I would probably get something else. They are not detail orientated speakers either. They are not what people would call bright, nor are they neutral. I guess they have rolled off treble and slightly boosted bass that lacks a little control (maybe Cambridge Audio was trying to get the most bass out of the small cabinet size and was willing to sacrifice some bass quality for quantity), but the midrange was the star. It has been a while since I had these, but I remember the midrange being sweet and forgiving. This speakers adds colour to the music, but if you like a little "warmth", it may be for you. At the price I've seen it for £129, it is a great speaker, far better than other speakers I've heard below £200. But just a smidgion more and you could get a QA Concept 20. This is on a whole other level to the Minx XL. Frankly, the Minx XL originally cost over £200, and I think it was outclassed at this price. At £129, you couldn't get better, except maybe the Wharfedale 220. I think the Wharfedale may even be the better of the two, except I think it is ugly and it needs to be used with the grills OFF. It stinks with the grills on, and objective measurements have shown this on more than one occassion. Take the grills off, and they appear to be pretty good.

I hope that helps. Take care...
 

Hobie65

Novice Member
Hi,

I enjoyed the Minx XL speakers, and they pair well with the A11 Tribute. I used them mostly at low volume with singer-songwriter and instrumental music, and they have a sweet quality to them and seemed good at low volumes. I used them and more or less midfield setup (1.5m apart), and they were very enjoyable to me. Be warned though, these speakers are not great when pushed, so if you have a large room or plan to sit more than 2m from them, then I would probably get something else. They are not detail orientated speakers either. They are not what people would call bright, nor are they neutral. I guess they have rolled off treble and slightly boosted bass that lacks a little control (maybe Cambridge Audio was trying to get the most bass out of the small cabinet size and was willing to sacrifice some bass quality for quantity), but the midrange was the star. It has been a while since I had these, but I remember the midrange being sweet and forgiving. This speakers adds colour to the music, but if you like a little "warmth", it may be for you. At the price I've seen it for £129, it is a great speaker, far better than other speakers I've heard below £200. But just a smidgion more and you could get a QA Concept 20. This is on a whole other level to the Minx XL. Frankly, the Minx XL originally cost over £200, and I think it was outclassed at this price. At £129, you couldn't get better, except maybe the Wharfedale 220. I think the Wharfedale may even be the better of the two, except I think it is ugly and it needs to be used with the grills OFF. It stinks with the grills on, and objective measurements have shown this on more than one occassion. Take the grills off, and they appear to be pretty good.

I hope that helps. Take care...
Tks so much for your reply.

I have a local audiophile guy who operates from his home and has a new pair of Minx XL so very interested in hearing the combo. Right now, I have a pair of PSB P3 which are ok and sometime quite good when the recording is great but I find lacking something to the sound.
Why so small speakers? I'm under the wife's rules and regulations with the main living room!
I have a tv stand with 2 shelves and trying to remain on mid shelve with only 235mm height max!
I can go bigger but will have to go on lower shelve with a max of 305mm
Minx XL will fit in the middle and hopefully will be a step up from PSB, I have a good feeling that it will.
The guy has other speakers so I will be able to test a few of them that he has in stock!.

Tks again

IMG_4835.jpeg
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Tks so much for your reply.

I have a local audiophile guy who operates from his home and has a new pair of Minx XL so very interested in hearing the combo. Right now, I have a pair of PSB P3 which are ok and sometime quite good when the recording is great but I find lacking something to the sound.
Why so small speakers? I'm under the wife's rules and regulations with the main living room!
I have a tv stand with 2 shelves and trying to remain on mid shelve with only 235mm height max!
I can go bigger but will have to go on lower shelve with a max of 305mm
Minx XL will fit in the middle and hopefully will be a step up from PSB, I have a good feeling that it will.
The guy has other speakers so I will be able to test a few of them that he has in stock!.

Tks again

View attachment 1694467
No problem.

Yes, I see your predicament. That's a very difficult situation to arrange speakers for good sound.

I hope your wife likes the Minx. My wife basically let's me get on with my HiFi shenanigans and never complains nor takes any interest for that matter (guess I am lucky). The only interest she ever showed was because of the Minx. I had it in my second system and later sold it. A few days later she asked me where the "pretty white speakers went". She was disappointed that I sold them. My jaw hit the floor. I still intend to get another pair for her to combine with a NAD d3020v2.

Good luck.
 

Cribbster

Active Member
Interesting debate really, and has been mentioned by a few, it really does show that you need to demo stuff to work out if you like it. I'm a big fan of Rotel. My current (very aged) amp is an old RA931 going through some B&W CM6 S2 speakers. And that sounds lovely. I have been itching to get a new amp for a few years now but can never find exactly the right one. I did recently demo the A11 Tribute, just to be able to compare it. And I was a bit disappointed. Yes it sounded good, but it felt a bit flat to me and didn't stir me to want to buy one. As a contrast I also tried the Roksan Attessa and again, a lovely sounding amp but not enough to make me think "this is terrific - I got to have me one of these". Who knows, it might be the speakers. But either way, I was a little saddened that the Tribute didn't sparkle for me. I'm also generally quite underwhelmed by the Denon amps. I have a DM39 as a small system to provide better sound for our 2nd tv. It does a great job of that but when I rigged it up to my B&W speakers, it was a patch on my Rotel. Despite the Rotel being nearly 30 years older. I also heard a Denon amp at the last Bristol show I went to and was pretty underwhelmed. I'm beginning to think I want the moon on a stick and perhaps being overly fussy when I audition amps. I haven't yet taken my Rotel in with me to do a direct A/B comparison but part of that is because I know what it sounds like and I know the sound I like so spend the time in the auditions focusing on whether I like what I am hearing. One of the better recent demos was the Lyngdorf which sounded very good but then it should do as it's certainly not cheap! But could I justify spending that much on the amp?? Aggghh, indecision strikes and I'm back to square 1. I'm still to try the Cyrus One. I have had Cyrus kit in the past and loved it and was massively impressed with the One when it launched a few years ago. And then I loved the sound when I heard the new Audiolab 6000. Felt sure that was going to be "the one". Then demo'd it with my speakers and.....hmmmm. There was something in the tones that just didn't do it for me at all. Quite possibly with a different set of speakers then I reckon the Audiolab will sing - but not ready to change them yet. Well, Mrs C isn't ready for me to change them yet. :) So the quest goes on and I try to grab a demo when I can. I prefer to buy once and live with what I have bought for a good while so, for me, it's an important decision. But the search is good fun!
 

Ascotbilly

Well-known Member
Hi Guys - so I’m back to reconsidering another amp for a 2nd system. Possibly the Denon PMA 800NE @robdmarsh suggested. One is a vinyl system the other a digital system Streaming/ CD.

Can I connect my existing amp to the upper speaker connections in photo and the new to the lower?

I would us the same plug socket for each amp to avoid both being powered at the same time. Would this work ??

CB0453E4-F17E-4A81-AEDA-24E3B09AC790.jpeg
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Hi Guys - so I’m back to reconsidering another amp for a 2nd system. Possibly the Denon PMA 800NE @robdmarsh suggested. One is a vinyl system the other a digital system Streaming/ CD.

Can I connect my existing amp to the upper speaker connections in photo and the new to the lower?

I would us the same plug socket for each amp to avoid both being powered at the same time. Would this work ??

View attachment 1695262
Why do you want to run two different amps? There'll be little audio gain as it's the speakers and the room that are really going to dictate as to how your audio will sound. CD and streaming will just be line in and it's the phono connection that, along with your cart, how the TT is going to perform.

You sound like your splitting your budget between two fairly comparable amps whereas combining the budget would get you a far better amp in the first place. I honestly can't see your logic.
 

Ascotbilly

Well-known Member
Why do you want to run two different amps?

You sound like your splitting your budget between two fairly comparable amps whereas combining the budget would get you a far better amp in the first place. I honestly can't see your logic.
@gibbsy - Yep I get where you’re coming from. Over time the two amps may become two systems in separate rooms so this is a potential study without buying additional speakers etc.

For how I listen to and hear music spending £1500-2000 on an amp and the time I listen to it is wasted on me.
 
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FootHealer

Active Member
Interesting debate really, and has been mentioned by a few, it really does show that you need to demo stuff to work out if you like it. I'm a big fan of Rotel. My current (very aged) amp is an old RA931 going through some B&W CM6 S2 speakers. And that sounds lovely. I have been itching to get a new amp for a few years now but can never find exactly the right one. I did recently demo the A11 Tribute, just to be able to compare it. And I was a bit disappointed. Yes it sounded good, but it felt a bit flat to me and didn't stir me to want to buy one. As a contrast I also tried the Roksan Attessa and again, a lovely sounding amp but not enough to make me think "this is terrific - I got to have me one of these". Who knows, it might be the speakers. But either way, I was a little saddened that the Tribute didn't sparkle for me. I'm also generally quite underwhelmed by the Denon amps. I have a DM39 as a small system to provide better sound for our 2nd tv. It does a great job of that but when I rigged it up to my B&W speakers, it was a patch on my Rotel. Despite the Rotel being nearly 30 years older. I also heard a Denon amp at the last Bristol show I went to and was pretty underwhelmed. I'm beginning to think I want the moon on a stick and perhaps being overly fussy when I audition amps. I haven't yet taken my Rotel in with me to do a direct A/B comparison but part of that is because I know what it sounds like and I know the sound I like so spend the time in the auditions focusing on whether I like what I am hearing. One of the better recent demos was the Lyngdorf which sounded very good but then it should do as it's certainly not cheap! But could I justify spending that much on the amp?? Aggghh, indecision strikes and I'm back to square 1. I'm still to try the Cyrus One. I have had Cyrus kit in the past and loved it and was massively impressed with the One when it launched a few years ago. And then I loved the sound when I heard the new Audiolab 6000. Felt sure that was going to be "the one". Then demo'd it with my speakers and.....hmmmm. There was something in the tones that just didn't do it for me at all. Quite possibly with a different set of speakers then I reckon the Audiolab will sing - but not ready to change them yet. Well, Mrs C isn't ready for me to change them yet. :) So the quest goes on and I try to grab a demo when I can. I prefer to buy once and live with what I have bought for a good while so, for me, it's an important decision. But the search is good fun!
I understand your feelings about the Rotel A11 Tribute. I paired this amp with many different speakers trying to find something that worked for me. I first used them on a pair of Monitor Bronze 5s, and the difference between the A11 Tribute and my Denon PMA600ne was striking to me. I was so wow-ed that I decided to upgrade the speakers. Then my issues started. I had never had listening fatigue before, but found using the Tribute and the Dali Oberon 5s that I was done after 20 mins. I initially blamed the speakers, and speaker swapped multiple times. I ended up with a QA Concept 40s, with a 90db senstivity, a minimum 4 Ohm impedance and QA said it wss easy to drive, even a 30w amp would be fine. And this was true...the Tribute sounds great with the Concepts.

What I noticed is that the Tribute does not deal well with speakers that are difficult to drive, where the impedance drops to less than 4Ohm or if the speakers demand a lot of current for other reasons by nature of their design. When paired with speakers like this, the Tribute struggles and sounds poor. Rotel say to use the Rotel A11 Tribute with speakers that have an impedance between 4 and 8 Ohm. To me, it is as if it can move fast but has no muscle. But pair them with an very easy load and it sings beautifully for the money.
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Hi Guys - so I’m back to reconsidering another amp for a 2nd system. Possibly the Denon PMA 800NE @robdmarsh suggested. One is a vinyl system the other a digital system Streaming/ CD.

Can I connect my existing amp to the upper speaker connections in photo and the new to the lower?

I would us the same plug socket for each amp to avoid both being powered at the same time. Would this work ??

View attachment 1695262
Not sure how your proposed speaker setup will sound, but I'd be interested in your opinion of the PMA800ne. I had the 600ne and it had muscle but was rather unrefined for my taste. A bit like riding to work on a tractor. The Rotel seems like a nippy little motorbike...all speed and no grunt. I have heard reviews of the 800ne saying it is quite neutral. If it is, I may buy one myself.
 

Hobie65

Novice Member
No problem.

Yes, I see your predicament. That's a very difficult situation to arrange speakers for good sound.

I hope your wife likes the Minx. My wife basically let's me get on with my HiFi shenanigans and never complains nor takes any interest for that matter (guess I am lucky). The only interest she ever showed was because of the Minx. I had it in my second system and later sold it. A few days later she asked me where the "pretty white speakers went". She was disappointed that I sold them. My jaw hit the floor. I still intend to get another pair for her to combine with a NAD d3020v2.

Good luck.
I hear many ppl praise the QA Concept 20 and 3020 and I could stretch my budget for them but they would end up resting on the bottom shelve 5 inch from floor.
Due to their smaller size, Minx XL would fit on the middle shelve with tweeter still below ear level when sitting down but in a better position.
Looking for that speaker that will be balance in details at low volume for jazz and Classical😫
 

FootHealer

Active Member
I hear many ppl praise the QA Concept 20 and 3020 and I could stretch my budget for them but they would end up resting on the bottom shelve 5 inch from floor.
Due to their smaller size, Minx XL would fit on the middle shelve with tweeter still below ear level when sitting down but in a better position.
Looking for that speaker that will be balance in details at low volume for jazz and Classical😫
Something like the Kef Q150 would have been good, as they also have both good vertical and horizontal off-axis response due to having coaxial drivers (KEF's "sit anyway sound"), whereas most 2-way bookshelves have poor vertical off-axis response. If you are sitting with the typical 2-way speaker's tweeter at quite an angle to your ears, the sound may change quite a lot and not for the better. The angle at which the sound remains the same as on-axis varies from speaker to speaker. Some you need to be directly level with tweeter, some are okay a little below, or above, or both. But there is always a limit, even with coaxials. The KEFs are bigger and more expensive though. But, as you say, you can only do the best you can with the situation and budget. Personally, I loved the Minx XL speakers. I hope you will too. All-in-all, I would rather have a smaller speaker closer to ear level than a "better" or bigger speaker way, way off-axis. Good luck...
 

Hobie65

Novice Member
Something like the Kef Q150 would have been good, as they also have both good vertical and horizontal off-axis response due to having coaxial drivers (KEF's "sit anyway sound"), whereas most 2-way bookshelves have poor vertical off-axis response. If you are sitting with the typical 2-way speaker's tweeter at quite an angle to your ears, the sound may change quite a lot and not for the better. The angle at which the sound remains the same as on-axis varies from speaker to speaker. Some you need to be directly level with tweeter, some are okay a little below, or above, or both. But there is always a limit, even with coaxials. The KEFs are bigger and more expensive though. But, as you say, you can only do the best you can with the situation and budget. Personally, I loved the Minx XL speakers. I hope you will too. All-in-all, I would rather have a smaller speaker closer to ear level than a "better" or bigger speaker way, way off-axis. Good luck...
Thanks again for your input, much appreciated.

had a pair of KEF Q100 that I sold 2 years ago, I know realize that I should have got rid of my Yamaha RN300 instead!😩

local shop owner has a pair of demo Minx XL for me to audition in my house this weekend, will advise!
 

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