Which One - Denon PMA-600NE orRotel A11 Tribute ?

[FootHealer]

been thinking about another amp for dining room with 607s2 . currently using a little t amp . so the pma 600ne on its way . enjoyed this review

I originally bought the PMA600ne based on this review. It is a nice little amp, solidly built.

 

[Kapkirk]

@Kapkirk - Have you received the Rotel A11 as yet ??

Hi Guys I'm back. The Rotel got posted to me but ended up going to a different address, I was not pleased as they even signed for it and obviously had intentions of keeping it.
But I managed to get it from them and have had it playing all day to day, I will do a longer review on it comparing it to my more expensive Denon PMA1600NE in the coming days.

FOOTHEALER, YOU WERE RIGHT ON THE MONEY MATE, this Rotel A11 TRIBUTE is a SUPERB yes SUPERB, amplifier I have been playing music on it all night and it has totally blown me away in every way. I SIMPLY CANNOT BELIEVE SOMETHING AT THIS PRICE IS SO GOOD , If the other poster hasn't got his yet he needs to ASAP. This Amp is everything I expected it to be, ohh and the soundstage WOW.. its HUGE , I would have gladly paid £1500 for this KEN ISHIWATA A11 TRIBUTE AMP it really is that good. It wipes the floor with just about any amp under £1000 that I have tested in the last 5-6 years. How they are not flying off the shelves like hotcakes? is criminal. Still love me Denon but the ROTEL is a DEF A KEEPPER FOR ME.

Full review of my findings tomorrow.

kapkirk.

 

[FootHealer]

Hi Guys I'm back. The Rotel got posted to me but ended up going to a different address, I was not pleased as they even signed for it and obviously had intentions of keeping it.
But I managed to get it from them and have had it playing all day to day, I will do a longer review on it comparing it to my more expensive Denon PMA1600NE in the coming days.

FOOTHEALER, YOU WERE RIGHT ON THE MONEY MATE, this Rotel A11 TRIBUTE is a SUPERB yes SUPERB, amplifier I have been playing music on it all night and it has totally blown me away in every way. I SIMPLY CANNOT BELIEVE SOMETHING AT THIS PRICE IS SO GOOD , If the other poster hasn't got his yet he needs to ASAP. This Amp is everything I expected it to be, ohh and the soundstage WOW.. its HUGE , I would have gladly paid £1500 for this KEN ISHIWATA A11 TRIBUTE AMP it really is that good. It wipes the floor with just about any amp under £1000 that I have tested in the last 5-6 years. How they are not flying off the shelves like hotcakes? is criminal. Still love me Denon but the ROTEL is a DEF A KEEPPER FOR ME.

Full review of my findings tomorrow.

kapkirk.

Thanks, @Kapkirk . It is good to know that you have had a similar experience with the Rotel A11 Tribute. It really is an amazing piece of engineering for the money. My experience is that the Rotel only sounds as good as the speakers...meaning the amp doesn't colour or influence the music much. It shows the speakers for what they really are. Pairing the right speakers with them has been tricky for me, but it sounds like the ELAC Debut Reference DBR62s work well for you with the Tribute. I am looking forward to trying this combination now myself.

Kind regards,
FootHealer

 

[Kapkirk]

 

[Kapkirk]

Had to nudge the treble up +1 and +2 with some material and the Elacs are known to be a bit flat sounding. then I tried with Plus+1 on the bass for other stuff. I haven't really driven the elacs har yet, with try later to see how the Rotel copes with output power, the Elacs suck power. but they do sound good with the Rotel. Nice and smooth, which I love. so impressed with this amp so far. I cant believe I got this for 350 quid, blows my mind.
Do you have the elacs,? I had to drive mine really hard with drum & bass for an hour when I got them, they sounded so much better after that, do you have them on stands?

 

[FootHealer]

Had to nudge the treble up +1 and +2 with some material and the Elacs are known to be a bit flat sounding. then I tried with Plus+1 on the bass for other stuff. I haven't really driven the elacs har yet, with try later to see how the Rotel copes with output power, the Elacs suck power. but they do sound good with the Rotel. Nice and smooth, which I love. so impressed with this amp so far. I cant believe I got this for 350 quid, blows my mind.
Do you have the elacs,? I had to drive mine really hard with drum & bass for an hour when I got them, they sounded so much better after that, do you have them on stands?

Hey Kapkirk...No, the ELACs have not arrived yet. Possibly later today. I will give them a run with the Rotel as they are, and if they sound flat, I will put on some electro for an hour and come back to them. They will be placed on 65cm HiFi racks stands. I certainly don't hope they sound flat (to me). If they do, then I will probably stick with the Concept 40s, which although not the most detailed, are dynamic enough to make it all sound great without the need to tinker with tone controls.

 

[Helix Hifi]

Rotel RA1572MK2, then we’re talking. I bet Tribute is also great.

Rotel conveys the soundstage with emotion and dynamics at the same time.

Excellent timing. My amplifier never clips on really, really loud volume. Don’t dare having the volume control higher then 70, even that’s pushing it.

Normally I have the volume on 60. The volume control is very accurate. Easy to adjust the volume.

Remote could be better. Aluminum instead of plastic.

 

[hifinutt]

I have used a denon AV amp faultlessly for years

I guess people love the value for money . I have a 4k italian amp here on demo at the moment which is built like a mercedes . the metal top is about 5 times as thick as the denon and the metal work is beautifully powdercoated . It oozes quality

So along comes this denon that cost under 400 quid 600ne model . First thing that strikes you is the beautiful front which just looks way more expensive . far more than 400 quid !!! Not so keen on the captive mains cable which i cant upgrade with a fancy one but there you go

remote is quality and adjusts sound well . got plenty of inputs and even does bluetooth . it was almost half the price of the pma 60 . Just running it in now with some nice VD 2.5 speaker cable and will report back .

However its so lovely that you can still buy an nice integrated amp for 2 months gas and electric bill !!!

P1070869 by , on Flickr

P1070870 by , on Flickr

P1070871 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

 

[hifinutt]

Hi Guys I'm back. The Rotel got posted to me but ended up going to a different address, I was not pleased as they even signed for it and obviously had intentions of keeping it.
But I managed to get it from them and have had it playing all day to day, I will do a longer review on it comparing it to my more expensive Denon PMA1600NE in the coming days.

FOOTHEALER, YOU WERE RIGHT ON THE MONEY MATE, this Rotel A11 TRIBUTE is a SUPERB yes SUPERB, amplifier I have been playing music on it all night and it has totally blown me away in every way. I SIMPLY CANNOT BELIEVE SOMETHING AT THIS PRICE IS SO GOOD , If the other poster hasn't got his yet he needs to ASAP. This Amp is everything I expected it to be, ohh and the soundstage WOW.. its HUGE , I would have gladly paid £1500 for this KEN ISHIWATA A11 TRIBUTE AMP it really is that good. It wipes the floor with just about any amp under £1000 that I have tested in the last 5-6 years. How they are not flying off the shelves like hotcakes? is criminal. Still love me Denon but the ROTEL is a DEF A KEEPPER FOR ME.

Full review of my findings tomorrow.

kapkirk.

your enthusiasm is refreshing !! will have to get one to try !! was slightly put off the cd11 cd because you had to pop out the cd from below the tray. most allow space for your fingers . that said i am a fan of rotel . especially the 1572

 

[Ascotbilly]

@Kapkirk - Did you ever demo the Cyrus One HD, another amp on my radar. How might it compare to the A11 ?

 

[hifinutt]

the rotel will have a better remote if thats important . and of course it comes in silver and cyrus is only black . only your ears can tell which one is best depending on your speakers and taste

 

[Ascotbilly]

Not bothered about remotes and black is colour of choice However, for a half size amp the Cyrus is actually really deep, it would protrude out of most rack / shelf systems.

 

[Helix Hifi]

I have to say, the denon amplifier does not look steady on the table. Is this a permanent solution?

The sound might suffer then. Vibrations from the cabinet, amplifier because the foots won’t have stable foundation.

Anyway that’s my opinion. It looks much tidier in stereo rack, tv rack.

 

[hifinutt]

ah yes just a temporary solution . the norma is in the normal place . now thats a mega fab amp but at 4k it should be . smooth and powerful

P1070865 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

 

[Kapkirk]

Udate.
OK guys, had a bit more time to evaluate the Rotel A11 tribute today and compare it with my Denon, and it seems I may have been a bit premature in my initial assessment . Unfortunately this amplifier simply does not have the Kahoonas to power my DBR62 Ref speakers properly.

On lower volumes under 65 on the Rotel (which is how I first tested it) it sounds very good but when I start to push it a bit, the treble hardens up and sounds a bit metallic.

Playing Steely Dan's track Jack of Speeds there is hardly any low end grunt, the bass seems to disappear or not get any punchier like it does with my Denon, with the Denon as I push the volume up the sound remains beautifully sweet and clean and I start to really feel the bass slam through my sofa and chest, this is completely missing from the Rotel, its delivery seems very lightweight. If I had purchased the Elac BDR62's with this amp I would have thought the speakers were to blame but I know that's simply not the case, the Elac's can sound amazingly dynamic and punchy and also go quite deep with bass.

I tried a few more tracks and it was the same, OK at lower volumes but as I turned up the wick to 70 and beyond the bass did not seem to get any louder (I had to push the bass control up to +4 to feel any real low bass, this is quite weird because the Rotel does go quite loud, I pushed it quite hard this afternoon but it just doesn't have weight and heft to the sound as the Denon. It's almost as if someone has removed the six and a half inch woofers from my speakers and replaced them with 4 inch woofers and then bunged the ports up, what bass there is, is quite melodic and tuneful but lacks real weight.

I'm guessing the Elacs really do need loads of current to get the bass cones moving and the Rotel just can't supply it, either that or the amp has been designed to produce light fast bass instead of heft.
I do like everything else about though, the midrange is airy and light, the soundstage is quite wide and open, I love how you can adjust everything with the remote control also. There was some odd thing going on with Bluetooth when playing qobuz from my streamer, every time a track changed I heard a relay clicking in the Rotel, strange as this didn’t happen when I used spotify over Bluetooth.

I will still keep the Rotel for a while or maybe just give it to my son as he doesn’t have a Bluetooth amp and maybe it would work better with different speakers, so I am left a little disappointed, but hey it's not an expensive amp so maybe I'm am being a little too critical.

 

[FootHealer]

Udate.
OK guys, had a bit more time to evaluate the Rotel A11 tribute today and compare it with my Denon, and it seems I may have been a bit premature in my initial assessment . Unfortunately this amplifier simply does not have the Kahoonas to power my DBR62 Ref speakers properly.

On lower volumes under 65 on the Rotel (which is how I first tested it) it sounds very good but when I start to push it a bit, the treble hardens up and sounds a bit metallic.

Playing Steely Dan's track Jack of Speeds there is hardly any low end grunt, the bass seems to disappear or not get any punchier like it does with my Denon, with the Denon as I push the volume up the sound remains beautifully sweet and clean and I start to really feel the bass slam through my sofa and chest, this is completely missing from the Rotel, its delivery seems very lightweight. If I had purchased the Elac BDR62's with this amp I would have thought the speakers were to blame but I know that's simply not the case, the Elac's can sound amazingly dynamic and punchy and also go quite deep with bass.

I tried a few more tracks and it was the same, OK at lower volumes but as I turned up the wick to 70 and beyond the bass did not seem to get any louder (I had to push the bass control up to +4 to feel any real low bass, this is quite weird because the Rotel does go quite loud, I pushed it quite hard this afternoon but it just doesn't have weight and heft to the sound as the Denon. It's almost as if someone has removed the six and a half inch woofers from my speakers and replaced them with 4 inch woofers and then bunged the ports up, what bass there is, is quite melodic and tuneful but lacks real weight.

I'm guessing the Elacs really do need loads of current to get the bass cones moving and the Rotel just can't supply it, either that or the amp has been designed to produce light fast bass instead of heft.
I do like everything else about though, the midrange is airy and light, the soundstage is quite wide and open, I love how you can adjust everything with the remote control also. There was some odd thing going on with Bluetooth when playing qobuz from my streamer, every time a track changed I heard a relay clicking in the Rotel, strange as this didn’t happen when I used spotify over Bluetooth.

I will still keep the Rotel for a while or maybe just give it to my son as he doesn’t have a Bluetooth amp and maybe it would work better with different speakers, so I am left a little disappointed, but hey it's not an expensive amp so maybe I'm am being a little too critical.

Hi,

Wow...that was quite a different review than this morning! I've never had the same issue with bass and metallic sounds on the speakers I've tried. Goodness, I even had the Monitor Bronze 500s for a while with two 8 inch drivers on each speaker. I could get up a good listening volumes with tight bass going down to 30Hz. That being said, I never take the amp over 70, usually its around 50, but can go up to 65 with vinyl. More than that is just way too loud for me to tolerate. And I tend to get speakers that have a reputation for being okay-to-easy to drive. Was listening to "Devotion" on Tracy Chapman's "Telling Stories" album earlier this evening. Had it on 53, which seemed plenty loud to me. There is a clear kick drum at the beginning of the song. The kick was tight, punchy, and I could actually feel it (not subwoofer "feel it", but close enough for speakers with 5 inch drivers). Then the bass comes in, nice and deep and well-controlled. It's great on the Concept 40s. No idea what's going on with the ELACs...It might also be that the A11 doesn't pair well with them. Maybe they require an amp that can handle difficult loads. Amir at ASR did point out that this would be the case, based on his measurements of the speaker. That doesn't give me great hopes for when mine arrive They may well appear on the AVForums classifies in the near future.

Thanks for the update.

 

[Countryman1972]

It’s easy to think something is initially tremendous because it’s different. Longer term listening can lead to different ideas. I‘ve heard the Tribute amp a couple of times. It’s good but not great, in my opinion. It‘s not for low level listening as it only comes to life at higher volumes, at which point - like you - I found it erring towards a little harsh and synthetic sound. Only my opinion of course, others may love it. However, you may be one of the people who simply don’t like those Elacs; there’s a few of them around. Funny old game.

 

[Helix Hifi]

I believe volume gain confuses the brain to believe an amplifier with analog volume is better.

But sound is subjective.

One thing for sure I am never getting an amplifier with analog volume control again.

Digital volume control is more accurate.

It could be Tribute amplifier had different volume gain compared to other Rotel amplifiers, but I can’t be sure. Haven’t listened to it.

Still 86 dB speakers are difficult to drive...

 

[Helix Hifi]

@FootHealer, have the speakers arrived? Different views then above. My views is every amplifier needs few days to get optimal sound.

I find it odd even volume 70 doesn’t give enough powerful sound. Volume 50 and the walls starts to shake.

I suggest @Kapkirk tries different speakers, but when you’re happy with what you got at the moment, it’s probably no point.

 

[Ascotbilly]

Called into my local hifi shop earlier today. The Rotel A11 Tribute is one NICE looking amp !!

 

[Kapkirk]

Been still using the Tribute for a few days guys, but the sound is half hearted, bass very gentle AND LIGHT , some weird circuitry messing with the bass, if you ask me, there ie no driving bass notes that you should feel or tight rhythm to the sound, this it what you need to dance with and enjoy the music., all missing from the Rotel A11 Tribute amp ... and then I remembered where I heard that type of sound before, I was from a Marantz 63KI CD player, WHICH would make perfect sense and he has done the same to the A11A TRIBUTE, AMP -That gentle polite sound I'm getting, Not nice for me, I need gut wrenching punch in my guts bass, make my sofa vibrate bass. Oh Well I did Try it.
Foot Healers going to have a shock if he tries those Elac's out on the A11 Tribute, your gonna need a BIGGER amp mate - say 150-200 w Hypex.
Latters.

 

[Kapkirk]

@Kapkirk - Did you ever demo the Cyrus One HD, another amp on my radar. How might it compare to the A11 ?

Heard it briefly in a Southgate Richer sounds connected to Revel Concerta 2 M16, sounded dynamic and very punchy bass, went loud, but treble sounded a little smeared, might have been speakers or amp, couldn't tell from the short demo though.

 

[FootHealer]

Well, got the DBR62s. Frankly, they sounded terrible with the two amps I have. Flat, boring, bass only comes on when driven at loud volumes to the point of being uncomfortable. Need to crank the volume up to get to a good listening volume at which point the amp starts to struggle. Not just the Rotel, but the NAD (60w per channel) amp also. Disconnect them, plug in the Q Acoustic Concept 40s...now that's better. Effortless bass, dynamic, easy to drive, punchy, and, to me, better sounding. Even the Bronze 500s with four 8-inch drivers were easier to drive than these and gave amazing bass with little effort.

I am open to the idea that these may sound good on a higher end amp with loads of power. For me, this was the worst pairing I have heard with either the Tribute or the NAD. A few hours after they arrived, they are being sold.

 

[Kapkirk]

I had a pretty good idea you wouldn't like the Elac's with the Rotel Foothealer, The NAD should have fared better though so am a little surprised. The thing with the DBR 62 ref's is they scale really well with a better front end and more powerful amplification. They also need a few weeks break in period.
As I pointed out in an earlier comment If I had just tried the Elac's on a less capable amp like the Rotel I would have sent them back as well, because there was no way I could live with the sound from them and the Rotel A11 together.
This was even more apparent when re-connecting my 1600ne earlier this evening, all the low end grunt that was missing with the A11 was back as it should be on the Elac's, such a relief, even though it's only been a few days with the Rotel. Also as I mentioned before the Rotel isn't actually a bad amp, it does have a nice airy sound and good soundstaging which I really enjoyed to begin with. But but as soon as you demand more from it (especially with the Elac's) the sound is lifeless with no drive or deep bass which is a real shame.
I guess this reiterates the importance of careful system matching, how many amps and speakers do we try that we assume are poor because the matching just doesn't work. Obviously for me the Elac's work brilliantly with the 1600ne and the Node N130 in my environment.
Like yourself and many others we're always on the lookout for that special little gem whether it be an inexpensive amp or a cracking pair of speakers that can really embarrass much more expensive equipment.
I have not heard the 3030's only the 3020's and whilst I thought they were OK (better than most at the price) they seemed a little shut in and constipated sound wise but the overall balance was just fine and I could easily have lived with them If budget was an issue.

 

[Helix Hifi]

Very surprising results! If this is the case. I don’t think the A11 has enough grunt to drive B&W 607. This speakers have room sensitivity 84 dB.

I believe @Ascotbilly has this speakers. Probably Rega is better.

Then again synergy is important. I rather have precise bass then slow, non engaging bass.

Rega is famous for this. Rotel also.