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Which one? BD801 or PG6? Help!

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by ShinObiWAN, Dec 4, 2003.

  1. ShinObiWAN

    ShinObiWAN
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    Really confused as to which one of these two would be the better choice:

    Barco Data 808

    OR

    NEC 6PG

    I'm sure Gordon or somebody can advise on the pro's and cons of these two models? Please :)

    I'm really wanting a 1280x1024 machine and I know the 6PG is good for this but am totally at a loss on the BD808 since I can only find the specs for the 808s.

    Either will be used through a HTPC running at 1280x720 using TT DVD or hopefully it will unless I'm told otherwise - again please advise
     
  2. Boris Blank

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  3. ShinObiWAN

    ShinObiWAN
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    Cheers Paul!

    It states that the Barco Data 808 is 1600x1200 which seems very high.

    But I'm leaning towards the Barco at the moment.
     
  4. ShinObiWAN

    ShinObiWAN
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  5. ShinObiWAN

    ShinObiWAN
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    I know that the BD808s is a 1280x1024 machine - it states this on barco's own webpage.

    But it doesn't seem like they list the earlier 808 anymore.
     
  6. helipilot

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    ShinObiWAN,


    I am not sure if you are looking at a Barco 801 or a Barco 808.

    If you are considering a Barco 801 against a NEC 6PG. I would definitely say the NEC 6PG would be a better bet as it has EM focus which will allow the projector to produce a much sharper image than the Barco 801.

    If you are considering a Barco 808 against a NEC 6PG the performance will be much closer as the 808 also has EM focus.

    As to which ultimately will produce the most film like image. I would personally go for the NEC as it will produce better colours than the Barco. I find red on the Barco to be a little orangey for my taste (colour correction filters can be added to some Barcos to help in this area).

    There are however some other things to consider. The physical size of the projectors is quite different. The NEC is a much more compact design which has slightly smaller tubes although more of the tube surface can safely be used, resulting in a similar image size. Getting parts for the NEC is becoming increasingly difficult however replacement tubes are still available and they are considerably cheaper than the Barco equivalent. The fact that the Barco is a lot larger should mean that the Barco electronics are less stressed and in this country at least there are more specialists able to get spares. Geometry and cConvergence is a tricky business so ease of setup may also be important to you. In this case the Barco is a lot quicker and easier to set up than the NEC.

    Do not get hung up on maximum resolutions that the projectors claim to be able to display. This is largely irrelevant as both these projectors will produce best results with 1280 x 720 for a 16:9 aspect ratio image. The NEC 9PG can lock on to a 1600 x 1200 signal but you would not want to watch a film on it as the resulting image would be very soft. What your are reading about here is the bandwidth that the projector electronics can handle. You have to consider that the surface of a CRT is like an artists canvas and you can only "paint" so many lines before they start to overlap. The thickness of these lines is determined by how tightly the electronics can focus the electron beam. If you run these projectors at 480 lines you will see the gaps between the lines loosing you image detail. If you run either of these machines with more than 720 lines, the lines will overlap effectively reducing the detail in the image and reducing the sharpness of the image.

    You will be amazed at how good a picture either of these machines can produce provided both are in good condition and well set up.

    At the end of the day it is your money and your choice. You should go for the projector that meets your needs best. I would strongly advise seeing both in action before making a decision. If your budget allows, paying one of the experts to set it up for you will be money well spent.

    Finally be careful when buying your projector. Buying from one of the specialists (there are several who regularly contribute on these forums) may initially seem expensive when compared to buying privately but if you are inexperienced it could save you a fortune in the long run.
     
  7. ShinObiWAN

    ShinObiWAN
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    Thanks Alan,

    Made interesting reading your post.

    I'm going for the Barco Data 808 in the end as I feel this is the machine that is in the best condition. Its had both green and blue tubes replaced with new ones and red tube looks to be very good too with absolutely no burn.

    I am a little concerned at the run time, which is approaching the 20,000 mark. Is this just too much?

    I've taken a look inside and I've been told its a totally refurbished unit and everything looks very clean, almost as new - no dust and the housing looks in good condition too with only a few minor scuffs and no discolouration.

    When I had the guy turn the unit on it was clear that it was far from setup. Everything was misconverged slightly but the image that was displayed looked good enoug. He did explain that the unit was not setup correctly and made a few adjustments which made the picture a little better but more tweaking was needed I suspected. I was however initially disappointed with the brightness, in the daytime conditions of the audition it was washed out but a few attempts to shield us from the sun provided a much nicer image and there was still a fair bit of ambient light flying around. So I guess in total darkness it would look even better.

    I found it hard to believe how much better the image was compared to my NEC VT45 LCD projector. Blacks looked fantastic and the colours were much more lifelike. The image on the whole was far more three dimensional than my LCD machine could ever produce. Another unavoidable benefit of CRT machines is the screendoor issue you get with LCD. Well good news here, the image benefits immensely from the absence of it. Bear in mind that the projector was not even fully setup aswell!

    Only downsides were the size, this thing is huge. I've decided on a floor mounted configuration with the projector hiding under a large coffee table. Image size will be in the region of 80" diagonal.

    Will let you all know once I've picked the projector up. I'm bound to need plenty of help setting it up :)
     
  8. ShinObiWAN

    ShinObiWAN
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    Well two weeks on and I'm still not setup yet but I've just bought the cables and a brand new HTPC based around the following:

    Intel Pentium 4 2.6Ghz @ 3.25Ghz -CPU-
    1Gb RAM (DDR 400) -Memory-
    Abit IC7 i875P -Motherboard-
    Hercules Radeon 9800 PRO All-In-Wonder 128Mb -Graphics-
    120Gb Western Digital SE 8Mb -Harddrive-
    Antec Sonata Silent -Case-

    This was after following others advice in the HTPC forum.

    I'm running the BarcoData in 1280x1024, which I've tested and it looks fine. I was a little worried as some have suggested that it would struggle at this resolution.

    The new PC is very fast and handles everything I've tested so far.

    I'm planning on do all the projector setup over the weekend, so I'll let you all know how I get on later.
     
  9. helipilot

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    ShinObiWAN,



    Your Barco 808 has electronics that can easily handle 1024 lines. Your projector will not struggle at this resolution but it may not give you the best image achievable.

    You should consider a couple of things

    1. Running your projector at high resolutions will mean that the electronics are working harder and are under more stress. The electronics will run hotter and your convergence may be more prone to drifting. This will mean tweaking on a more frequent basis.

    2. Running your projector at 720 lines will produce a much sharper and more detailed image than running at 1024 lines. This is because at 1024 lines your lines will be overlapping blotting out detail and making the image softer.

    Many projectors have electronics which can produce more lines than your tube can fully display particularly if you perform an anamorphic squeeze on the image to achieve a 16:9 picture. The secret is to use the minimum number of lines that just fill the display without any gaps between the lines. In the case of your Barco 808 I think you will find that is about 1280 x 720 lines with a squeezed 16:9 image.

    Set up memory blocks with both resolutions and switch between them. Let us know which you prefer !
     
  10. ShinObiWAN

    ShinObiWAN
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    Cheers Heli,

    I'll do a comparison between 1280x1024 and 1280x720 to see which looks the better of the two.

    Really am impressed with the image at 1280x1024 at the minute though - plently more convergence to be done around the edges of the image though.
     
  11. ShinObiWAN

    ShinObiWAN
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    Well I've finally setup the machine and am very happy with the results.

    This is the first and only CRT machine I've seen and the image is breath taking. I can only image what a Cine 9, Reality 909 or EHome 9500LC would look like.

    After around 12 hours of setting, not including the installation and screen mounting! I've got the convergence damn near perfect, I love the electromagnetic convergence system on the barco, its makes setup easy but it is time consuming to perfect the image.

    I've settled on a colour temp of 6500k and have an accurate grey scale straight off the bat. Whites look white and greys are grey with no leaning toward any particular colour. Guess I was lucky because I was expecting to have to set this up.

    I'll post some pictures a little while after Christmas.

    Finally if anyone wants to see the benefits of CRT, you are more than welcome to come and have a demo. I was a previous owner of an NEC VT45 LCD machine and it just isn't on the same planet as the Barco, even the demo of the SIM Domino looked second rate compared to this.

    Downsides to the Barco are:

    - Steep learning curve to setup correctly
    - Absolutely Huge
    - Weighs in excess of 76kg (more than me!)
    - Expensive replacement tubes at ~£800 each

    Oh and all this performance for a measly £1000. I bet you'd need to spend around £8000 to get this sort of performance.
     
  12. Roland @ B4

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    720 is about the best focused image that you will get from an 808 on a 16x9 screen. anything more and the lines will overlap and cause some softening
     
  13. ShinObiWAN

    ShinObiWAN
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    What sort of resolution can I expect in 4:3 format?

    I'm currently using 1024x768.

    Would 1280x1024 be possible?

    If you're wondering why I want 4:3, its because I play PC games on the crt and movies so its about a 50/50 split.

    Also I'm having to run the convergence quite hard at the minute since some of the values are 90 or 10 in some circumstances in the various convergence zones.

    I'm guessing a complete re-setup is needed, including the projector positioning since its very slightly off.
     
  14. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    Projector possition is critical running that high on convergence shows that some thing is not right elsewhere.

    1280x1024 will be possibel in 4x3 but it will need very carefull set up paying particular attention to the stigmators electonic and manual.
     

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