Which one - 2 REL T/9x OR 1 REL S/812

ScubaDrunk

Active Member
Hi All - Need some expert advice as I'm totally confused due to my room layout/restrictions.

Thinking about getting either 2 x REL Acoustics T/9x Subwoofers OR 1 x REL Acoustics S/812 for the following floor plan which is exact measurement's and placement of furniture and speakers.

Your help is much appreciated 😊

Equipment as follows :-
Marantz AV7706 Pre Processor
Marantz MM8077 7 Channel Amplifier
F/R & F/L Monitor Audio Silver 100
Center Monitor Audio Silver C150
R/R & R/L Monitor Audio Bronze FX
F/R & F/L Height Monitor Audio Bronze AMS Atmos

Room.png
 

Conrad

Moderator
What's pushing you down the REL route rather than, say, SVS or BK?
 

ScubaDrunk

Active Member
What's pushing you down the REL route rather than, say, SVS or BK?
Thanks for your help 😊

The REL would compliment my front left and right Monitor Audio Silver 100 bookshelf speakers as they have really good musical advantages due to the the high level inputs for 2.0 as well as Home Theatre with the LFE input.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Rel doesn´t get much love for home theater use, you are paying quite a bit of premium and the T range is more suited for hifi systems. S/812 looks much better, but at 2400£ there is so many options to consider. T9x is not really movie subwoofer with the tiny 10" drivers and lacking some extension.

Your room looks quite tricky and not sure would you get best response with two subs close like that and one near the opening. How much space do you have behind the right side couch? Considering alternative placements for dual woofers example one at the front left corner and second at the rear right corner (behind couch). You probably have listeners on each couches.

Few other products to consider.





 

ScubaDrunk

Active Member
Rel doesn´t get much love for home theater use, you are paying quite a bit of premium and the T range is more suited for hifi systems. S/812 looks much better, but at 2400£ there is so many options to consider. T9x is not really movie subwoofer with the tiny 10" drivers and lacking some extension.

Your room looks quite tricky and not sure would you get best response with two subs close like that and one near the opening. How much space do you have behind the right side couch? Considering alternative placements for dual woofers example one at the front left corner and second at the rear right corner (behind couch). You probably have listeners on each couches.

Few other products to consider.






Thanks for your help 😊

I have no room behind the Sofa's as they are right up against the walls due to space limitations. The diagram shows the Rear speakers but these are wall mounted bi-Pole.

The SUBS would have to be placed in the positions as per the diagram due to room layout.

The question is really more towards what is the best SUB and how many for both music and Home Theatre taking into consideration the room layout and space limitations.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
The room is quite nightmare for 2ch listening as you are listening/sitting against rear wall or in worst case on the right side couch left seat which is like sitting in corner. Worst spot to sit and i can imagine everything will sound poor. Then you aren`t even sitting middle of your main speakers. Sadly the situation is what it is unless changing the order for length oriented one but then the 2nd couch wouldn´t work and this is living room so there is likely other priorities over fully optimized audio experience.

I don´t know what kind of response you will get and does the 2nd sub close by smoothen the response. @Conrad could comment on this?

You do have nice system otherwise, although i would consider Silver C350 in future especially as you listening from off-axis and the 3-way design is superior over the the C150 you have. It´s bulky though, but otherwise it will be huge step up as members here have found out!

As for the subwoofer are you open to consider other brands, the ones i mentioned example (minus PC4000)?
 

ScubaDrunk

Active Member
The room is quite nightmare for 2ch listening as you are listening/sitting against rear wall or in worst case on the right side couch left seat which is like sitting in corner. Worst spot to sit and i can imagine everything will sound poor. Then you aren`t even sitting middle of your main speakers. Sadly the situation is what it is unless changing the order for length oriented one but then the 2nd couch wouldn´t work and this is living room so there is likely other priorities over fully optimized audio experience.

I don´t know what kind of response you will get and does the 2nd sub close by smoothen the response. @Conrad could comment on this?

You do have nice system otherwise, although i would consider Silver C350 in future especially as you listening from off-axis and the 3-way design is superior over the the C150 you have. It´s bulky though, but otherwise it will be huge step up as members here have found out!

As for the subwoofer are you open to consider other brands, the ones i mentioned example (minus PC4000)?

Thanks again for your advice.

Tell me about it. The room is a nightmare and not ideal but it is what it is unfortunately 😢

I have considered the C350 but it is a little to big for the space I have and would be over-whelming from a aesthetic point of view.

I am open to other brands and models and do like SVS but the SB-4000 and PC-4000 are too big for the space I have to play with.

I have been told that the REL would work better for both music and H/T when compared to the SVS.
 

Conrad

Moderator
Thanks again for your advice.

Tell me about it. The room is a nightmare and not ideal but it is what it is unfortunately 😢

I have considered the C350 but it is a little to big for the space I have and would be over-whelming from a aesthetic point of view.

I am open to other brands and models and do like SVS but the SB-4000 and PC-4000 are too big for the space I have to play with.

I have been told that the REL would work better for both music and H/T when compared to the SVS.
What integration options do you have (Audyssey, Antimode, minidsp?) and which would you be prepared to add?

A well integrated sub will sound equally musical if the response is tamed.

High level means using the speakers natural rolloff rather than a managed crossover point. If you have frequency and slope options then you can likely replicate it. I did read recently that the change of a Likwitz-Riley crossover to a Butterworth crossover is a part of what makes the high level sound more musical, which is interesting.

I'd want to be sure that I felt high level offered something managed bass didn't before I dropped £5k on REL subs. They don't really offer the best value, unless they meet a very specific need that no other sub does. BK, for example, have high level connections and wood veneers. SVS subs at similar price points are far more capable (at the expense of high-level).
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
Is it possible to switch the lounge area for the dining area ?
 

ScubaDrunk

Active Member
What integration options do you have (Audyssey, Antimode, minidsp?) and which would you be prepared to add?

A well integrated sub will sound equally musical if the response is tamed.

High level means using the speakers natural rolloff rather than a managed crossover point. If you have frequency and slope options then you can likely replicate it. I did read recently that the change of a Likwitz-Riley crossover to a Butterworth crossover is a part of what makes the high level sound more musical, which is interesting.

I'd want to be sure that I felt high level offered something managed bass didn't before I dropped £5k on REL subs. They don't really offer the best value, unless they meet a very specific need that no other sub does. BK, for example, have high level connections and wood veneers. SVS subs at similar price points are far more capable (at the expense of high-level).

@Conrad Thanks for the input and advice.

I use Audyssey with the APP from my iPhone to do the initial measurement.

I then Measure the physical speakers distances using a tape measure and adjust the processor speaker settings.

I then use a SPL Meter to set the speaker levels and adjust to 75db across the board in the processor.

For H/T listening I have the speakers set to 80Hz for crossover and current SUB to 120Hz. All speakers are set to Small.

Luckily the Marantz AV7706 Pre Processor allows you to have a separate setting set for the front left and right to another crossover when listening in 2.0 stereo so I have the Front Left and Right set to 40Hz crossover with the speakers set to Full range for 2.0 listening.

The 2 x REL T/9x are coming in at £2600 (not 5K). I am also limited to certain brands as my local dealer does not do B/K and I have to stick with my local dealer for personal reasons. They do however do the following makes of SUB

Screenshot 2021-05-16 112237.png
 

Conrad

Moderator
@Conrad Thanks for the input and advice.

I use Audyssey with the APP from my iPhone to do the initial measurement.

I then Measure the physical speakers distances using a tape measure and adjust the processor speaker settings.
I wouldn't do this. Distance setting isn't actually about distance, it's about phase relationship.

I then use a SPL Meter to set the speaker levels and adjust to 75db across the board in the processor.

For H/T listening I have the speakers set to 80Hz for crossover and current SUB to 120Hz. All speakers are set to Small.

Luckily the Marantz AV7706 Pre Processor allows you to have a separate setting set for the front left and right to another crossover when listening in 2.0 stereo so I have the Front Left and Right set to 40Hz crossover with the speakers set to Full range for 2.0 listening.
Your bookshelves are at -6 at 40Hz. Have you tried other crossovers?

The 2 x REL T/9x are coming in at £2600 (not 5K).
I was basing that on dual 812.

I am also limited to certain brands as my local dealer does not do B/K and I have to stick with my local dealer for personal reasons. They do however do the following makes of SUB

View attachment 1512706
That makes things very difficult, not a lot of choice there.
The real value comes with ID subs like Arendal, BK etc. But if they're off the table then REL and SVS are about all that's left really from that list.
 

ScubaDrunk

Active Member
Thanks again @Conrad

I wouldn't do this. Distance setting isn't actually about distance, it's about phase relationship.

What would you recommend? Leave the Audyssey measured settings alone?

Your bookshelves are at -6 at 40Hz. Have you tried other crossovers?

So would you recommend higher crossover or lower?

I was basing that on dual 812.

Understood 👍

That makes things very difficult, not a lot of choice there.
The real value comes with ID subs like Arendal, BK etc. But if they're off the table then REL and SVS are about all that's left really from that list.

So I'm assuming that REL will be a better choice when taking into consideration music and H/T as SVS are tuned more towards just H/T?

Thanks for your help and guidance.
 
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Conrad

Moderator
Thanks again @Conrad



What would you recommend? Leave the Audyssey measured settings alone?
Yup. If you have the means to measure and you're able to check the alignment with REW then maybe you could adjust to improve, but the phase that Audyssey sets should be good.

So would you recommend higher crossover or lower?
Higher. The speakers won't be outputting much at 40Hz so having that as the centre of a crossover might not be the best sounding. I would experiment an octave up (so 80Hz). If that's too high then try 60Hz. It shouldn't mean re-calibrating.
So I'm assuming that REL will be a better choice when taking into consideration music and H/T as SVS are tuned more towards just H/T?

Thanks for your help and guidance.
I would guess that the SVS and the REL, when connected over low level with the same settings and placement would be indistinguishable with music. With movies the SVS will have an advantage.

With high level there might be a difference, but I would think that that difference could be replicated with the SVS through tuning and integration.

What's your source?
 

ScubaDrunk

Active Member
Yup. If you have the means to measure and you're able to check the alignment with REW then maybe you could adjust to improve, but the phase that Audyssey sets should be good.


Higher. The speakers won't be outputting much at 40Hz so having that as the centre of a crossover might not be the best sounding. I would experiment an octave up (so 80Hz). If that's too high then try 60Hz. It shouldn't mean re-calibrating.

I would guess that the SVS and the REL, when connected over low level with the same settings and placement would be indistinguishable with music. With movies the SVS will have an advantage.

With high level there might be a difference, but I would think that that difference could be replicated with the SVS through tuning and integration.

What's your source?

@Conrad Source is Tidal Masters via HEOS through the Marantz AV7706 Pre Processor.

I have listened to both the SVS and REL and must say the REL beat the SVS when it came to 2.0 music.

The SVS did have the edge when it came to H/T.
 

Conrad

Moderator
@Conrad Source is Tidal Masters via HEOS through the Marantz AV7706 Pre Processor.

I have listened to both the SVS and REL and must say the REL beat the SVS when it came to 2.0 music.
If you've heard both and prefer one then that's much more important than what the stats say.
I'm slightly surprised and I reckon with effort you could get the SVS to sound the same. How much effort (cost, time, frustration) and whether it's worth it is hard to say.

You won't be able to get the REL to perform the same as the SVS for HT.

The SVS did have the edge when it came to H/T.
You've said that 2 channel is more important than HT, if so then it has to be REL. If they're equal, was the difference between the two greater for 2 channel, or for HT?
 

ScubaDrunk

Active Member
If you've heard both and prefer one then that's much more important than what the stats say.
I'm slightly surprised and I reckon with effort you could get the SVS to sound the same. How much effort (cost, time, frustration) and whether it's worth it is hard to say.

You won't be able to get the REL to perform the same as the SVS for HT.


You've said that 2 channel is more important than HT, if so then it has to be REL. If they're equal, was the difference between the two greater for 2 channel, or for HT?

Thanks @Conrad I don't have any preferences when it comes to either music, H/T or even brands.

I would just like to make sure I am choosing then best balance and bang for buck for both music and H/T but at the same time ensuring I choosing the best SUB that fits my room layout/restrictions.

The reason for the thread title was that 2 REL T/9x are compact enough to fit in the space I have along with being tuned for both music and H/T.

The room is not that big so that's why I thought 2 REL T/9x would be enough but at same time be balanced (2 of them) along with being tuned for music but also being enough power there for H/T in my size room.

I could get away with a single REL S/812 in the room OR similar sized single SUB but again I would want to make sure that whatever make I choose delivers the best performance for both music and H/T equally.
 

Conrad

Moderator
Thanks @Conrad I don't have any preferences when it comes to either music, H/T or even brands.
Ah, I thought you said you wanted primarily 2.0, I can see now that you didn't.
I also see that you're comparing 2 x 9x vs 1 x 812 which means my £5k comment is invalid as well.

I would just like to make sure I am choosing then best balance and bang for buck for both music and H/T but at the same time ensuring I choosing the best SUB that fits my room layout/restrictions.
With a room of that shape it's hard to model and predict how a sub would behave. You could try using REWs room sim with just the living area set, but the dining area means that its results would be questionable.

The reason for the thread title was that 2 REL T/9x are compact enough to fit in the space I have along with being tuned for both music and H/T.

The room is not that big so that's why I thought 2 REL T/9x would be enough but at same time be balanced (2 of them) along with being tuned for music but also being enough power there for H/T in my size room.
The 9x is a 10" driver and you have a large room. Physics dictates that a 10" driver isn't going to play that low anyway, and in a large room I feel it'll struggle, even with duals. For music that'll be less of an issue but it's not a great HT sub. The 812 will do a much better job, but you might suffer with the seat to seat response given that you have a single sub.

You might be able to fit dual SB2000 in, they're not much bigger than the 9x, depending on which dimension you're constrained in. That would give the benefit of duals, with the output of the 812 (doubled, as each SB2000 is similar in capability to the 812).

This would be at the cost of the high level inputs. But with the money saved you could get something dedicated to sub EQ (antimode, minidsp and mic) and still come in under the cost of the 812, with far more flexibility.
 

ScubaDrunk

Active Member
Ah, I thought you said you wanted primarily 2.0, I can see now that you didn't.
I also see that you're comparing 2 x 9x vs 1 x 812 which means my £5k comment is invalid as well.


With a room of that shape it's hard to model and predict how a sub would behave. You could try using REWs room sim with just the living area set, but the dining area means that its results would be questionable.


The 9x is a 10" driver and you have a large room. Physics dictates that a 10" driver isn't going to play that low anyway, and in a large room I feel it'll struggle, even with duals. For music that'll be less of an issue but it's not a great HT sub. The 812 will do a much better job, but you might suffer with the seat to seat response given that you have a single sub.

You might be able to fit dual SB2000 in, they're not much bigger than the 9x, depending on which dimension you're constrained in. That would give the benefit of duals, with the output of the 812 (doubled, as each SB2000 is similar in capability to the 812).

This would be at the cost of the high level inputs. But with the money saved you could get something dedicated to sub EQ (antimode, minidsp and mic) and still come in under the cost of the 812, with far more flexibility.


@Conrad You sir are a gent and a scholar 👍👌😁

Thank you for the feedback. I had originally set myself on this exact setup. Dual SVS SB2000 Pro.

Now that you mention the "antimode" (And after reading about it) I can see that the "anitmode" will in essence give me the same 2.0 musical tuning when using the SB2000 Pro (Pro has the EQ app as well).

I will be going for 2 x SVS SB2000 Pro's with a antimode. Hopefully this ticks all the boxes for both music and H/T for this size room.

Thanks again everyone much appreciated especially @Conrad
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
@Conrad You sir are a gent and a scholar 👍👌😁

Thank you for the feedback. I had originally set myself on this exact setup. Dual SVS SB2000 Pro.

Now that you mention the "antimode" (And after reading about it) I can see that the "anitmode" will in essence give me the same 2.0 musical tuning when using the SB2000 Pro (Pro has the EQ app as well).

I will be going for 2 x SVS SB2000 Pro's with a antimode. Hopefully this ticks all the boxes for both music and H/T for this size room.

Thanks again everyone much appreciated especially @Conrad

2x SB3000 would come at 2600£ same as T9x. But perhaps those SB2000 Pro are enough. :) You should get at least -10% discount which ever SVS subwoofers you buy. Other dealers will give that so talk with the one you have to buy from.

If you buy Antimode pick the better model for dual woofers.
 

ScubaDrunk

Active Member
2x SB3000 would come at 2600£ same as T9x. But perhaps those SB2000 Pro are enough. :) You should get at least -10% discount which ever SVS subwoofers you buy. Other dealers will give that so talk with the one you have to buy from.

If you buy Antimode pick the better model for dual woofers.

Thanks @Gasp3621
I'm going to go for 2 SB2000 Pro's as these are much the same size as the T9x and will fit in the space i have.

Question for @Conrad and @Gasp3621 - The SB2000 Pro's have a DSP system built in which is accessed and tuned via an app on the iPhone connected via Bluetooth to the SUB.

Will I still need the Antimode 8033SII to tune the SUBS to get the best performance out of them for 2.0 stereo or can i skip the Antimode and just use the built-in SVS features to tune them?
 

Conrad

Moderator
Thanks @Gasp3621
I'm going to go for 2 SB2000 Pro's as these are much the same size as the T9x and will fit in the space i have.

Question for @Conrad and @Gasp3621 - The SB2000 Pro's have a DSP system built in which is accessed and tuned via an app on the iPhone connected via Bluetooth to the SUB.

Will I still need the Antimode 8033SII to tune the SUBS to get the best performance out of them for 2.0 stereo or can i skip the Antimode and just use the built-in SVS features to tune them?
I would try the DSP before you buy the antimode. You might be able to get away without it.
The antimode is more powerful though, it'll have more filters.
 

sound28

Member
Thanks again for your advice.

Tell me about it. The room is a nightmare and not ideal but it is what it is unfortunately 😢

I have considered the C350 but it is a little to big for the space I have and would be over-whelming from a aesthetic point of view.

I am open to other brands and models and do like SVS but the SB-4000 and PC-4000 are too big for the space I have to play with.

I have been told that the REL would work better for both music and H/T when compared to the SVS.
You can try the Rel HT 1508, they are good for movies & music.
 

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