Featured ! Promoted Which OLED TV is 2018’s Ultimate Model?

Discussion in 'OLED TVs Forum' started by Phil Hinton, Oct 26, 2018.


    1. Promoted Content Poster

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      Note that one person at the event will win a 65" OLED TV.

      Philips are inviting AVForums members to a special TV shoot-out to decide which is the best OLED. Register now, as only limited places are available.
      Read the news.


      Philips are inviting AVForums members to decide at a special TV shoot-out. Register now, as only limited places are available.

      Every TV manufacturer believes their top set is king but you now have the chance to decide which model should really wear that crown.

      It’s actually a rare opportunity to get to see all the best sets tested side-by-side but Philips and AVForums have come together to arrange a special viewing session at the Institute of Contemporary Arts in London on the evening of Thursday, November 15th.

      Nearly all of the major TV manufacturers agree that OLED technology currently leads the field for outright TV picture quality. So, the main part of the test will be the chance to see four of the best 65” OLED models from Philips, Sony, Panasonic and LG put through their paces.

      The event will be hosted by the Philips global PQ technical guru, Danny Tack, who will be available to give you an insight into the current and future state of TV technology and will answer all of your questions first hand.

      You’ll also be able to meet the AVForums team who will be responsible for calibrating the sets and ensuring part one of the shoot-out is conducted in a fair, proper and objective manner.

      All of the sets will be carefully disguised to remove any brand preferences and we’ll be showing you a series of both SDR and HDR reference PQ clips and Blu-ray movie scenes, as we put the four OLED TVs into direct competition.

      Think you already know who is best? Come and put it to the test.

      The event is strictly by invitation and will start at 18:30 on Thursday, November 15th in the Nash and Brandon rooms at the ICA, 12 Carlton House Terrace, London, SW1Y 5AH - close to Charing Cross and Picadilly Circus stations.

      To apply for one of the very limited spaces please send an email to [email protected] with the subject line: Philips TV and OLED

      And please include a bit of information about yourself:

      • What AV products are in your current system at home?
      • Have you calibrated your TV?
      • What is the maximum size of TV you would consider purchasing: 55”, 65”, 75”, 85” or larger?
      • 4K Blu-ray v 4K streaming: which do you use most?

      Places are strictly limited so remember to get your email in ASAP!

      This is a Promoted event organised and paid for by Philips/TP Vision and does not represent the opinions or endorsement of AVForums.
       
      Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2018
    2. Goldorak

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      Email sent just now. Cheers

      Update: it will be good if the testing protocol is shared before the event. Not sure who is going @Phil Hinton

      Secondly, to avoid the argument of pre-selected content to favour anyone, can the avforum pro team consider an additional and fully random content source (could be simple tv hd broadcast to someone bringing own uhd blu rays)
       
      Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
    3. O C D

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      Email gone ..."Fly like the wind"
       
    4. SLS72

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      Spoiler alert: Philips come out on top.
       
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    5. KishB

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      Wish I could attend but interested to see if the results are the same as the last test.
       
    6. lgans316

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      Would like Samsung Q900R to be a part of the shootout.
       
    7. BRAKKUS1

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      Phillips will still be the best in Vivid mode :rotfl:
       
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    8. O C D

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      Spoil sport :(
       
    9. Philips TV PQ

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      Thanks for you suggestion.

      This is not an easy test to organise in order to make sure there are no 'flaws' that people can seize upon to suggest bias. Which is why it doesn't happen very often.

      All four sets have to be simultaneously fed the same signal at the same time without causing issues with any one of them. Rather than find clips that cause obvious problems for certain sets you have to do the opposite or again bias will be seized upon.

      We actually try to be as fair as possible because the process/result will have zero credibility if we don't. This includes taking hours to disguise the sets and calibrate them.

      We also have to give everyone in the audience enough time to come to a conclusion and be finished by 21:15.

      We prepare in advance because we need it to be reliable, repeatable and fair on the night.

      So, a wide range of content - 11 clips each shown twice in each segment - is selected from a number of sources. There are specially prepared demo clips that are for highlighting certain image elements - a contrast clip , a sharpness clip, a skin tones clip etc. The source of all these clips will be clearly identified. Then we have a number of blu-ray movie clips and finally some streamed Netflix clips.

      The special demo clips and the Blu-ray clips are loaded on to a media PC to simplify the connection and to ensure a smooth, reliable presentation.

      Which means we can't just add anything on the night.

      However, as you are the first to ask, and as a one of gesture as we can't extend the offer to everyone, if you would like to suggest a UHD Blu-ray clip of max 90 seconds we will include it in the shoot-out - assuming the disc is freely available.
       
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    10. Philips TV PQ

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      All four sets are calibrated by AV Forums, each model is disguised. Why not come and vote?
       
    11. O C D

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      My final two oleds of choice in which i was gonna go for one was the 903 or the C8 but now into the C8 thread by about 3000 posts and about 2000 to go its not looking good for the C8 .
       
    12. SLS72

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      Because I don't want to attend a shootout that is hosted by a manufacturer. When Philips TVs are up against the competition in an independent shootout then I'll take the results seriously.
       
    13. O C D

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      This is all well and good but to date i cant find anyone in N.Ireland that has one on display or willing to put one on display ...come on Philips cast a wider net .
      Mark.
       
    14. stevebk

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      I would love to come, just cannot make it.
      I fully agree with others, its very important that all sets are calibrated by
      AV Forums. That way there can be no sign of tempering / favouring the Phillips oled
       
      Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
    15. Goldorak

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      I really thank you for taking the time to reply with such details. Appreciated

      There is no denying that when a manufacturer do its own shootout, we are all very skeptical. The avforum pro member calibrating the TVs is good enough for me. We need clarity on what settings the tv is on for fair comparison.

      Secondly, if me or someone I know from this forum goes, I trust they will ask the right questions and make their own conclusions.

      At a time where I have to make my own decisions (alongside finding a job), this is welcome.

      Since we have a bit of your attention TP vision, please realise that not having a single tv available anywhere to play with is a real problem. Hope you can address this and i am not the only one thinking it.

      There is one think I like about Philips beside the TVs is that they engage their customers. Nothing can be said of all the others put together. That’s a good start even if a long way to go in uk especially. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Cheers
       
    16. O C D

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      ×2
       
    17. Goldorak

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      Suggested clips:
      - guardian of galaxy 2 scene at the beginning as colourful and good motion test
      - Ben Affleck White shirt in Batman versus superman for tone mapping
      - Sandra bullocks in deep space amongst the star
      - very bright animal scenes in uhd from planet earth. Snow, water, jungle and frog in the dark background

      Don’t know if possible but try to get Oreo for 803 and 903. OS should be scored at the end across all if possible.

      Try also to add a score for tv sound as everyone interested to hear what 903 can do versus Sony AF9 and pana with technics.
       
    18. Philips TV PQ

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      Many thanks for your comments in return.

      The stock situation is slowly getting better. The UK market is possibly the toughest in the world and some brands are prepared to lose money for market share.

      The 6000 Series had good distribution last year and better this. Richer Sounds and Currys/Dixons have now taken the 803/903 and there will be stock on demo in a limited number of stores. more retailers should be announced very soon.
       
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    19. Philips TV PQ

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    20. O C D

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      In N.Ireland (uk) i have been to both richer sounds and currys and they have told me that they will NOT be displaying Philips oled.....what do i do now ????
       
    21. Philips TV PQ

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      TY. Will take all of this onboard. Oreo is currently being beta tested but is unlikely to be released on Philips TVs before the end of the year.

      I don't think we will have time to do a sound shoot-out - it was considered - but again it would need careful set-up in order to be fair - location of the sets in the room, balancing levels etc etc - and we have a couple of extra surprises to show on the night.

      Maybe we will be able to something with Bowers & Wilkins next year.
       
    22. Goldorak

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      Thanks for that
      Will be good if you can provide easy access to 803 and 903 so whoever is there can hear sound and tell us :)
      I am talking aside from the shootout
      I know I pushed my luck with Oreo !
       
    23. Philips TV PQ

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      Thanks for your comments and sorry we won't see you on the night.

      I think you will see better distribution of the 803/903 with Philips returning to Currys/Dixons and with more retailers coming on line very soon. And it looks like next year will see another step-up for the brand in UK retail.
       
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    24. stevebk

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      I agree with Goldorak about the sound, it's important to include it.

      For me I am holding on for (quality sound ) from a tv as well as picture, because lack of room for additional speakers. If the 903 is able to be put along side the Panasonic FZ952, Sony AF9 that can only be a plus point for Philips. I am sure the B&W sound will knock to socks of the others.

      We are at a stage with tv's where sound is just as important as the picture, hence the development of the soundbar over the last few years. Panasonic with Technics, LG with Meridian, Philips with B&W. Samsung mainly have the market with their soundbars, but many like me don't want an additional unit in front of the screen. I am excited about the 903 partnering up B&W with a built in soundbar.

      If there is a chance all three tvs to play the same 3min track from Pink Floyd Comfortably Numb you can all get high at the same time.. but on a serious note the sound is very important for many of us.
       
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    25. marc5701

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      Any Oled that can eliminate broadcast tv posterization and blocking 20180921_143715.jpg , is my winner.
       
    26. Crafty

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      Is that from an OLED ? my 12 year old LCD is better than that! Surely something else must be up there? compression on a stream or similar ?
       
    27. marc5701

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      LG55ef950 oled ,source panasonic freeview hd recorder. I tested my recorder with the Sony 55 A1 Oled in smooth gradation mode. The posterization was still showing. Apparently the Panasonic VT65 plasmas also showed these compression flaws up. I hope the 2019 Oled's have a picture mode that can deal with broadcast tv, because that's what most of us watch.
       
    28. GadgetObsessed

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      Given that Philips is sponsoring and managing this night, I think that it is reasonable for them to choose the material that is to be shown.

      Personally, I would like this comparison to focus on picture quality rather than on sound or operating system. Firstly, from experience of previous shootouts, I doubt that there will be enough time available to cover either sound or each TVs OS. Secondly, even if a TV does have poor sound or weak OS, you always have the option of resolving the issue by using a soundbar, or an Apple TV box.

      I attended last years shootout and the emphasis then was on processing. When comparing the 4 calibrated sets with all their processing turned off there was very little to choose between any of them. This is pretty much as you would expect, given that all OLEDs use the same LG panels. The differentiating factor between the sets is the processing expertise that each manufacturer can provide.

      The view of Danny Tack (Philip's processing guru) was that the key point is not how much image processing there is but how good that processing is. There is a lot to be said for this approach. All TVs can do with help in dealing with the following:

      (1) General motion - all OLEDs have a base motion resolution of around 300 lines. Improving this can only be achieved with either frame interpolation or black frame insertion. Effective motion processing can be especially useful for fast moving action such as sports. Implementing improved motion handling without introducing unwanted effects is a seriously difficult task and one that seems to provide a significant area of differentiation between brands.

      (2) Lower quality and compressed sources - this can cause issues such as posterisation and blocking. Some TV manufactures have specific processing that can help to smooth these issues out.

      (3) Lower resolution sources - for most of us 1080 probably still accounts for a significant proportion of our viewing. How well a TV can upscale 1080 to the display's native 4k resolution is of key importance.

      (4) 24p judder for film material - fast pans shown in 24p can look very unnatural. In some ways this issue is worse for OLEDs than LCDs, as OLEDs have such no pixel smearing due to their fast response times. (The pixel smearing can help "soften" the change between frames.)

      (5) Dim HDR material - there seem to be a number of HDR encoded streaming series that seem to end up being rather dim - as if the grading for the highlights has had a detrimental effect on average brightness. Having controls that help reduce dark HDR issues are therefore useful.

      Hopefully, I will be lucky enough to go along and meet some fellow AV Forum members as well as the team from Philips/TPS and Phil and Steve from AV Forums.
       
      Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
    29. hackthegibson

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      Any of the Sony Oled’s will do that.
       
    30. Goldorak

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      Great post as always. Here are my feedback:
      1. Choice of material: slight variation to what you said. They are hosting but when there is no random, the manufacturer is often believed to choose the best content for their tv...like choosing your exam questions or theme :)
      So, they can choose 89 percent but introducing some random sort the issue.

      2. Sound and OS: I LOVE YOUR 5 points but believe that a tv is a sum of features. A bad OS or Superb sound can make a HUGE difference to the end user experience and final decision.
      So to resume, add to your five points the following:
      6. Tone mapping
      7. Sound (keep it simple...no need to turn it into a hifi testing room simply because last time I checked my room wasn’t)
      8. OS (this one is complicated indeed to test but too often under estimated).
      9. Reference monitor: we should have a reference monitor in an ideal world. A picture can look stunning but over processing can loose the original content. Good news, pana oled is there :)

      3. Time management: I have seen the USA shootout and it felt like a lecture at university sometimes. It is good to learn but time allocated to the pro talk must be balanced versus the main event which is about scoring.
      Only like this can you do whatever you want to do. Time management and planning.
       

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