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Which is the better set - Philips 32PW9588C or 32PW9509

Discussion in 'TVs' started by john2303, Jul 2, 2004.

  1. john2303

    john2303
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    I have just received a loan of the 32PW9588 with the option of swapping it for the 32PW9509. Please can someone advise me which is the better set. I am swaying towards the 9588 as it looks fantastic. I had the 9618 but had to put it back as I was constantly having problems with the wireless rear speakers. Thanks in advance for any help
     
  2. Saintsman

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    Hello John,

    I have just completed a viewing test commision by 6 European consumer associations and included was the Phillips 32" 9509. As someone who was very impressed with the Pixel Plus 1(and a half) I was looking forward to seeing the PP 2 as I was interested in buying one myself.

    To my surprise, the ten people involved in the viewing, from Broadcast Engineers to a TV repair man, all absolutely hated the Pixel Plus 2. Every single detail is so overly sharpened that the amount of processing going on is so evident. On its RGB input, a good signal is turned into something so overly sharp that it becomes almost unbearable to watch. Small details like the roughness of a brick to grain and dirt on an old film being broadcast were magnified into such sharp detail that where normally they would not be seen, they now competed with the action. On a good rf signal, there was obviously less for the set to grab hold of and enhance so it actually looked a lot better.

    I have not seen a PW9588 but if it has the previous version of Pixel Plus on it then I would suggest that its pictures are probably going to be easier on the eye that the 9509's.

    Out of the 38 sets tested, the overall unanimous favourite was the Sony KD-28DX200U, although I am sure the 32" version would be equally strong. This set was way out infront in both RGB and rf but other Sony's tested had horrible colour casts that albeit are probably adjustable in service menus were very disappointing.

    My personal favourite is the PW9618 that you have also had, but as the 9509 does not have surround sound, is it not worth getting the 9618 back and forgetting the wireless speakers and listening in virtual surround?
     
  3. vivaatloni

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    The good thing of digital processing on philips sets is that you can turn them of. In my opinion the pixelplus2 sets are also a lot sharper then pixel plus 1, but with 90% less artifacts. When you watch a dvd, you can switch to the movieplus option instead of the pixelplus2 option. Next to that you can adjust the sharpness to a lesser level, or adjust dnr to a lesser level.

    You can adjust the 9509 completly to your own wishes.

    Also it is my opinion that the test in magazines are not as good as an experience of the users self. Because they had the tv 4 a longer time and it is not a hour test.
     
  4. john2303

    john2303
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    Thanks for the advice.

    I do like the 9588 as it looks great and sounds great. I dont particulary want to go back asking for the 9618 back so its a bit of a dilema - do I stick with the 9588 or do i go with the 9509????? what a choice!! :D
     
  5. Saintsman

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    I agree with you Vivaatloni that some magazine test can be rather "narrow", but believe me the test we have just completed have been extensive and have lasted for weeks, not days or hours. I can assure you that the equipment is not simply taken from the box and evalutated, but is lined up and adjusted to give the optimum picture quality against a wealth of material well before the panel start the official grading.

    On completion, a hefty document per television is produced where everything imaginable has been tested, anything from start up times, installation times, egomomics of the remote control and the manual's instructions to a picture test and sound test made up of two seperate panels comprising of people associated with either field, ie Broadcast Vision Engineers for one and Professional Sound recordists for the other.

    It seems a strange suggestion that you buy a Pixel Plus 2 television and then switch off the function to use Movieplus instead. Has the Movieplus technology been upgraded? I believe it hasn't. The whole selling and marketing point of the 9509 is PP2 and in my opinion and those of the others that partook the testing programme, it wasn't as good as the pixel plus version in models like the 9618, so when the movieplus technology is the the same why go for a PP2 model?

    It is likely that PP2 was introduced to help Philips's Plasmas and LCD's improve their picture sharpness, which it has considerably, I do not, however, think this extra advancement is necessary for their CRT's.

    I realise all these things are subjective and are a matter of personal opinion and choice, so I won't dream of trying to persuade one person to change a point of view, just to put forward my own. I was hugely disappointed with the model as rather than being just a viewing panelist, I was hoping to be a purchaser as well.
     
  6. john2303

    john2303
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    thanks for all your help - do you think that i should just stick with the 9588 then? you obviously know what you are talking about and I appreciate your opinion.
     
  7. martin999

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    I have the 32PW9509, been using for a couple of weeks. Seem to find that movie plus is a bit better than pixel plus 2, as said above, pp2 can overdo things a little too much. Does anyone know what the difference is from pp2 and movie plus ? I assume neither use 100hz as this is another option. Have also tried the double line option, but find it looks unwatchable due to a quivering effect it has.

    Martin999
     
  8. john2303

    john2303
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    so, should I swap the 9588 for the 9509??

    cheers

    john
     
  9. bazzae123

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    Hi Saintsman,

    Something not right there M8. Mines nothing like that at all. One of the best TV's I've seen, and believe me, I've tried most of them.

    Bazza
     
  10. john2303

    john2303
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    Hi Bazza

    Have you tried the 9588?

    cheers

    john
     
  11. tutu

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    The 9618 has been discontinued ASFAIK. I like the styling very much of the 9509.. I don't see why you can't just change modes if you don't like P+2.

    It would have been nice if the set included Dolby Digital tho!

    I have seen the Sony KD-32DX200U and I was blown away by the picture quality. To be fair however, it was running a DVD through RGB while the others were on shared RF signal.
     
  12. Dessie

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    As someone who is at present looking for a new tv I had looked at the 9509 and was amazed at the level of detail in the picture, however I can understand the view of Saintsman where he says it looks over processed,but that is the thing with television pictures what suits one person will not suit another!!

    I was very interested in the 36 9618 but have not been able to see one that is set up well and showing a picture of the quality I have read about on these forums,the ones I have seen had very blocky pictures.

    Saintsman when you said you liked the 9618 have you seen it in the 36 inch model or just the 32 which I have seen and was very impressed with.

    Dessie
     
  13. Saintsman

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    Hi Bazza,

    As I said, it is all about personal choice, however, I note from the other current thread about the 9509 being available at comets, that your preferred settings are to use the Movie Plus enhancement rather than the Pixel Plus 2. So why buy a set that has PP2 in it?

    It was agreed that using Movieplus did in our opinion make the picture look better (not the best!) but the whole selling point of this set is that it has this latest derivation of Pixel Plus in it, so the testing was biased towards that function, although all were viewed and reported on.

    To answer your question John.....I am not sure. I haven't seen the model that you are currently using but I would suggest that you take your time over spending your £1000, really checking the 9509 out for yourself. It is personal choice and you may really like it or not be as fussy and annoraky as some.

    If you have a shop near you that will accept you bringing in your own material to try on a set then choose a whole range of material. Things like fast panning shots where the background may become blocky (sports)or real close ups of people (head and shoulders)so that face tones and digital processing on hair can be judged. Choose things with bright vibrant colours and check that there is no chroma break up on the edges especially when the picture pans and moves. Pick something that is extremely well detailed, lots of lines on it in all directions and watch for break up, ringing and alliasing problems when the picture moves. The 9509 has incredible resolution (too good) so on things like test cards and JPEG photos and stills it is fantastic showing no sign of any interlace flicker.

    It is an incredibly difficult job in finding a television that you really like. Personally I am shocked at the amount of rubbish the manufacturer's produce where one model may be good and others from the same company are next to useless. I know in the broadcast world that the majority of galleries still consist of Grade 1, 4:3 monitors with Aspect Ratio Convertors fitted in them as there are still problems of making widescreen Grade 1 monitors.

    Best of luck in choosing a new set John, just take your time and be picky and fussy, you are after all spending some considerable money. I recommend going to a big department store like a John Lewis, where their staff are generally well trained and older rather than the saturday kid who will try and show off all the latest gimmicks and not know a thing about anything.
     
  14. Saintsman

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    Hi Dessie,

    I haven't seen a 36" one...you must have on helluva living room to put that in!!!

    Surely if you give a department store a ring and asked them to set up a demo for you they would do so. Ideally ask them to set up something similar to what you have at home. If you watch the majority of your viewing through rf then get them to set that up. Similarly, it is better to get a Sky or Freeview box plugged in rather than a DVD player to your Scart sockets as DVD playback is to such a high standard these days that most sets will look good. However, if you can bring a well chosen selection of material in on DVD that may be wise as well.

    If they want your money and lets be honest a 36" Philips is BIG money, then they must earn the right for you to do business with them by doing a little bit of work themselves!!!!
     
  15. bazzae123

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    Hi Saintsman,

    I use movie plus as I was under the impression that it dealt better with movement. To be honest I couldn't really see much difference between the two. Also, as I understand it, P2 has hardware improvements which are activated in both modes. This is why terrestrial pictures look a lot better than on the older system. For instance, watching recent football matches are a great improvement via the BBC than on the older model beit in movie mode ,or P+2. Other improvements over the older system relate to the way frames are displayed. If you recall, on the older version a lot of people didn't like the "Video" effect with some films. This has been greatly eliminated on the new system but still manages to keep the solid 3D like contrast. By the way, which TV did you think was best?

    Regards

    Bazza
     
  16. john2303

    john2303
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    I think I have been persuaded that the 32PW9509 is indeed an excellent set and I will go to the shop in the morning with a view to buying it - I am sure I will not be dissappointed
     
  17. carlton

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    I cant quite understand what saintman is saying.THe 9509 is near on the best crt picture i seen,in fact i havent seen a better picture anywhere on
    any tv.

    What settings exactly were u using??cause u either had some way off settings or some duff tv given to u to test.

    I think this tv can look bad ,indeed i wasnt overly impressed with it out of box but a hour of adjustments describes what i said above.
     
  18. Saintsman

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    As I have said time and again on this thread, it is subjective and one persons opinion and tastes vary from anothers. I am glad you like your set, but in my opinion the Sony KD-32DX200U had a much more natural feel to the picture.

    The testing laboratory has really good contacts with Philips UK and before going to press with the findings, the manufacturer will almost certainly be given leave to come and sell their wares and tell us where we are going wrong. However, this particular model has had about twenty people "fiddling" trying to improve the picture and it has stumped us all.

    Good luck with your purchase John, I hope you enjoy your new set.
     
  19. john2303

    john2303
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    Thanks for your help - the set is coming on tuesday.

    i will let you know what I think - this forum is great for this kind of stuff as it will help me get the best quality set up on the picture and sound.
     
  20. carlton

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    I understand what u are saying saintman about everything being a personal
    preference.Its just that some of things u describe in your original post about
    everything being overly sharpened and unbearable to watch just doesnt ring true to what i have experienced.

    Also i agree the picture on the dx200 sets are very nice on rgb feeds but thought the analgoue feed pictures suffer to much compared to the philips.

    Just goes to show though........
     
  21. john2303

    john2303
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    I get my 32PW9509 today and I am really looking forward to having a play around with it tonight - can anyone give me any advice with regarding the settings so that I achieve optimum performance?

    thanks in advance

    john
     
  22. Thunderbird6

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    Hi......I'm intend to buy a 32 widescreen set but I'm baffled (and getting 'dissilusioned')....all the pixel plus sets I've seen in showrooms have a poor picture when put onto pixel plus mode..peoples faces look as though they have got plastic surgery (layers of slap) and really bright shiny highlights almost like a sculptured look; the picture is much better when you switch to ordinary 100hz. Is this due to the signal ? Other non -philips sets did not show these strange effects with the same signal ? Is a really good signal needed. Do most people end up keeping the pixel plus -off. Is the 9509 a bit experimental -another feature(PP2) but no PIP, limited sound only 3 scarts? It seems some of the older models offer better sound and features Hard disc recorded, PIP, wireless speakers etc. and have now come down in price. Anyone know if the 32PW8768 or 97618 any good since I think these meet my requirements more. Where can you actually see tv sets working with decent signals and staff which are n't fumbling their way through your questions.
    I have a Philips 21" set at the moment which has a superb picture from an aerial (sited in the roof space) and bought from Argos for less vthan 20 quid 10 years vago. The set is over 5 years old and if it was n't for the size I would n't be changing it.
    Any comments or answers or advice WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
     
  23. Rytenuff

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    Saintsman, I am dubious of your statements. On 2nd July you said,
    "Out of the 38 sets tested, the overall unanimous favourite was the Sony KD-28DX200U, although I am sure the 32" version would be equally strong."

    Then later on 3rd July you said,
    "I am glad you like your set, but in my opinion the Sony KD-32DX200U had a much more natural feel to the picture."

    Did you nip down the shops for a look see at the 32'' version and remembering the "test" that you took part in ( where people did technical things like "fiddling" with the sets!) make your comparisons in your head and then come back to this forum to impart your wisdom?
     
  24. torkelom

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    The detailed level you refering to as "plastic surgery" is due to bad signal.
    I've have no problem with my 32pw9509 on a Pioneer Dig. Sat. and a Sony DVP-NS900QS dvd player. I also use this product:
    http://www.monstercable.com/europe/power/productPagePower.asp?pin=2073 to clean the power and signal.
     

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