Which HD Capable Projector?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by adieboy, Mar 19, 2006.

  1. adieboy

    adieboy
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    I've presently got a NEC HT1000 - a decent machine with a usable resolution of 576 x 1024, but now looking to upgrade to something HD compliant (Well, 720p, anyway). Just a couple of questions.

    How much difference in quality can I expect with SD material and HD material, respectively?

    As my budget is around £2000, max., I've shortlisted these machines:

    Themescene HD72i (3 year hot swap warrenty)
    Mitsubishi HC3000 (Free bulb)
    Projection Designs Action Model Two (now highly discounted to just over £2000).

    All DLP machines, as I don't suffer from rainbows much.

    Your opinions much appreciated (particularly yours, Gary, if you're reading this, as you swapped my machine for a 720 line machine.

    Cheers Adie.
     
  2. evolution400

    evolution400
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    Hi I have the HC3000 and I watch HD on it quite regular and I find it a lot quieter than my old infoucus 4805, its good for SD but as you would expect it comes into its own for HD viewing. I use the xbox 360 for HD viewing streamed from my media center PC and its fantastic.
    How much are the HC3000s now ?
     
  3. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    Check out my review here on the HC3000. Nexnix are selling them for around £1700 I think.
    I found HD (1080i) on my 576p Sharp XV-Z200e looked fantastic and when I upgraded to an Infocus 7205, found the difference subtle to say the least. On SD material, the difference was even less. I have yet to try native 720p material but would hope the difference would be more pronounced.
     
  4. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    Hi Adie,

    The difference between HD and SD material is quite noticable, even on the HT1000, but for the extra resolution to be further apparent (backgrounds especialy look more detailed), then the higher res is what you will need.

    I had a quick look at the HD72i today, with plenty of HD material (at www.projectorsareus.co.uk ), and I was quite impressed. I wasn't able to have a long look at it or measure the contrast, colour balance etc, but image quality was impressive for the money IMHO.

    Apparently it can modulate the lamp to allow a higher contrast (in low or high lamp, it has an advertised 3000:1, but for the AI lamp mode it's 5000:1). I didn't see it in action, so I don't know how well it works in achieving the higher CR. Either way the black level will remain the same and only the brightness will change. In reality the CR may only be 1800:1 to 3000:1 though (give or take a few 100:1).

    Try to get some demos if possible of course.

    Gary
     
  5. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    Hi Gary,

    in your opinion would the 72 be a considerable upgrade from my ht200dm?

    Will geoff be stocking the 72?

    cheers,
    phil
     
  6. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    Hi Phil,

    Yes and Yes. :)

    Probably the most noticable improvement as an upgrade compared to changing the DVD player or getting a scaler, so worthwhile IMHO.

    Give him a ring and see what he can do for you. Part exchange might be possible I suppose.

    Gary
     
  7. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    Gary, can you enlighten on this contrast ratio business. You state that no matter what the contrast ratio, the black will remain the same only the brightness will change.
    But to get the higher contrast ratio, the lamp usually drops in brightness correct? But isn't the contrast ratio the difference between the darkest part of the image and the brightest part so for instance a 3000:1 contrast ratio means the brightest part of the image is 3000 times brighter than the darkest part so if a higher contrast ratio means lowering the brightness, surely the black must become darker otherwise the difference between the two would be less not more, consequently lowering the contrast ratio.....

    Now tell me where my logic is going wrong!!
     
  8. foghorn

    foghorn
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    Adieboy,

    Of the three models you have mentioned for me the stick out projector would be the Projectiondesign. I lived with this projector for a little while and it really did deliver on picture quality.

    What you should remember is that the Optoma HD72i and the Mitsubishi HC3000 are entry level 720p projectors, and as a consequence will use cheaper components.

    On the other hand the ProjectionDesign is a high end manufacturer who uses quality components, it not that long ago this projector retailed for £4500-£5000.

    I also looked at the Optoma H77/78 which was a very nice projector, however I was advised by far more knowledgeable people who were used to working with the Optoma H77/78 and the Projectiondesign action model two that the only way you could get the Optoma to perform to the same level as the Projectiondesign was to add a £1000 scaler to the H77/78.

    Foghorn
     
  9. Darko

    Darko
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    Hey gary

    the link does not work, any chance of pasting again as would like to have a look

    Cheers Darko
     
  10. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    In this case the best black the projector can produce is when it is in low lamp mode, but the brightest white in that mode is (for arguments sake) 3000 times brighter.

    When in high lamp mode, the lamp is brighter, so the black level and white level are increased equally, and the ratio remains 3000:1

    When in AI mode it ramps the lamp from low to high, so the white level is as bright as the high lamp mode, and the black is as low as in the low lamp mode, so in this case the white level is being increased and so is the contrast - 5000:1.

    That's if it works that way of course, but judging by the two contrast ratios quoted for the model, and what I heard today, it does sound like that is what it is doing. How well it works I couldn't say (having not seen it in action), but I would think the trick would be to get the lamp to ramp up and down quick enough for brightness changes depending on scene content so that it won't be too noticable as to what's going on with the lamp.

    Gary
     
  11. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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  12. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    Cheers Gary!

    Jeff is not interested in p-ex so will have to look elsewhere!
    Or fleabay for the old girl!
     
  13. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    You could always get the Sharp Z200E so the upgrade isn't a great expense - I would think you'd get at least half or more for the HT200DM in a private sale. It's not as big a step as the HD72, but you'd be going in the right direction.

    Gary
     
  14. adieboy

    adieboy
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    Well, I'm still not sure how much of an improvement I would see. Oakleyspatz's indifferent comments aren't encouraging. As Foghorn has pointed out, two of my three shortlisted units are aimed at the budjet end of the market, with the inevitable compromises- quality of the optics, video processing, etc.
    Perhaps the Projectiondesigns unit would offer more of a jump in performance.
    Comments from anyone with experience with this unit would be much appreciated.

    Cheers Adie.
     
  15. Canary_Jules

    Canary_Jules
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    The choice is all the more perplexing when you realise that contrast ratios published by manufacturers can't really be relied upon. I know for sure that my new HD72i has a better contrast ratio than my previous HS50 - and that is with the HD72 in basic mode with AI off and the HS50s iris set at auto. In fact on this point I hardly see a difference on the HD72 with AI on. So according to my eyes 3000:1 beats 5000:1 - crazy!
     
  16. foghorn

    foghorn
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    Adieboy,

    Just read your original post again I take it you meant to say the ProjectionDesign Action Model One II as opposed to the ProjectionDesign Action Model Two.

    The ProjectionDesign Action Model Two is a newer model and retails for £3500 as opposed to the discounted ProjectionDesign Action Model One II which is now £2100.

    It was the Model One II I was referring to.

    If you are interested in seeing this model then speak to Ken at Ivojo apart from selling ProjectionDesign he owns a model one II, so he knows the product range. Ken was able to arrange for a demo projector to be sent to my home for a few days. This would give you an opportunity to compare both projectors.

    If you like reading reviews have a look at the Projectiondesign web site.

    http://www.projectiondesign.com/Default.asp?CatID=1221

    Have a look in particular at the HTprojector.com.

    http://www.htprojectors.com/Web/HtprojectorsENG/prod_det_online.asp?ID=2693


    Hope this helps.

    Foghorn
     
  17. adieboy

    adieboy
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    Hi Foghorn,
    Yes, quite right - Model One MKII.
    I have read quite a bit about this machine - looks promising.
    Now, if I re-mortgage my home, I can afford the 1080 model they were demonstrating on the What HI-Fi stand at Bristol the other week - by far the best thing I saw at the show. Oh well... back to reality.

    Cheers Adie.
     

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