Which [Format/s] and [Brand/s] of DVD Disc? (for Panasonic DMR EX89E)

Luminance Leon

Standard Member
Hello guys and gals :hiya:,

Firstly, have to say that I have found a lot of useful information here recently, whilst looking to buy a HDD/DVD recorder, to replace our ageing Panasonic VCR.
The Discussion on the Sony DRDRC205 et al. was a real eye opener!

So, we have a Panasonic DMR EX 89E on order for Monday (8-2-10), but I like to get hold of the online manual, before hand, for a read through.

Q1:

The user manual states that DVD +R, +R DL and +RW only allow recording in 4:3 aspect ratio.
Can anyone confirm this is actually true?

Is the above statement referring to direct recording of TV to disc, or from the HDD to disc, or ANY recording to a '+' disc?

If this is true, Panasonic is really saying that the product supports 'DVD-' as a record medium, with 'DVD+' as an afterthought.

Q2:

I have been google searching a bit to see what brands of disc are particularly better than others, and specifically for these Panasonic machines. But, most of the test/comparisons are based around PC drive speeds and error rates at those speeds.

To my surprise TDK didn't get a great write up (they used to be pretty decent for VHS/Audio cassettes):confused:.

I have been using Sony DVD-R/+RW (+RW write once, not RW Re-write, I don't know why it has RW on it) on my PC and haven't had any issues, but that's a PC, and a whole different ball game.

So, would anyone recommend particular brands of disc (DVD '-' discs if Q1 indicates such), and what would be their reason for the recommendation?

Many thanks folks,

Leon
 
Last edited:

ravingdave

Active Member
My recommendation would be to get DVD -R by Taiyo Yuden (with TYG03 dye). These have always been reliable for me, and work in my Sony machine when other disks refuse (see thread http://www.avforums.com/forums/dvd-blu-ray-recorders-media/1186348-sony-hxd870-fast-dub-media-problem.html)
These can be bought in bulk from svp.co.uk - they are a little more expensive than some other disks, but if you are recording irreplaceable material, or backing up vital data then the small premium is well worth it.

There is also some useful info on quality of DVD media here: Best Blank CD or DVD Media - 2010, along with links to further info.
 

Gavtech

Administrator
Hello guys and gals :hiya:,

Firstly, have to say that I have found a lot of useful information here recently, whilst looking to buy a HDD/DVD recorder, to replace our ageing Panasonic VCR.
The Discussion on the Sony DRDRC205 et al. was a real eye opener!

So, we have a Panasonic DMR EX 89E on order for Monday (8-2-10), but I like to get hold of the online manual, before hand, for a read through.

Q1:

The user manual states that DVD +R, +R DL and +RW only allow recording in 4:3 aspect ratio.
Can anyone confirm this is actually true?

Is the above statement referring to direct recording of TV to disc, or from the HDD to disc, or ANY recording to a '+' disc?


If this is true, Panasonic is really saying that the product supports 'DVD-' as a record medium, with 'DVD+' as an afterthought.


Welcome to the forum.

Yes it is true. Always preferably use '-' type rather than + types.
It applies to all recordings made on those media.

It is not so much an afterthought as a deliberate restriction to encourage use of '-' type media.

Q2:

I have been google searching a bit to see what brands of disc are particularly better than others, and specifically for these Panasonic machines. But, most of the test/comparisons are based around PC drive speeds and error rates at those speeds.

To my surprise TDK didn't get a great write up (they used to be pretty decent for VHS/Audio cassettes):confused:.

I have been using Sony DVD-R/+RW (+RW write once, not RW Re-write, I don't know why it has RW on it) on my PC and haven't had any issues, but that's a PC, and a whole different ball game.

So, would anyone recommend particular brands of disc (DVD '-' discs if Q1 indicates such), and what would be their reason for the recommendation?

Many thanks folks,

Leon

As ravingdave, I also recommend Taiyo Yuden using TYG03 dye.
They are the most compatible with your machine and have a justifiable reputation as the best that can be obtained.

Ignore branding on discs. It is not relevant. Factory and dye are.


Also see this thread from a few days ago which includes a link to some JVC/ Taiyos
 

Luminance Leon

Standard Member
Right, I see now Gavtek, I did read somewhere once that '-' was the more compatible format.

So, if Panasonic and others are discouraging the '+' format, this will surely disappear, and may not actually be supported by new DVD players (Blue Ray it will be) in the future. That is, of course, only a huge problem if backwards compatibility isn't really easily implemented in the new machines.

As a rule of thumb, follow the '-' minus format :lesson:. Thanks Gavtek.


OK, yeah, the name Taiyo Yuden does ring a bell. I wonder if there are any specific brands that can be relied upon to guarantee TYG03 discs, at a slightly lower price than TY discs themselves?

I'll do some more searching on how to find and identify these high quality recordable media.

Cheers fellas !
 

tinytim

Active Member
If you go for rewritable discs rather than write once then Verbatim -RW are probably the best choice.
 

Luminance Leon

Standard Member
Taiyo Yuden own the majority share in JVC media and are using the JVC brand as a direct channel to retail. So JVC media discs are the discs to buy for write once media. Previously taiyo yuden relied on other companies to market their discs in most countries of the world.

UPDATE 1-Taiyo Yuden to acquire JVC's recording media unit | Reuters

JVC Recording Media

Now that's interesting. It looks as if this whole TY/JVC company and finance jazz was all happening in November '09.

I wonder how much old stock of JVC discs are still around. Could these be packaged in the same livery as the Taiyo Yuden discs?

I found this:
Taiyo Yuden to JVC Advanced Media CD-R DVD Product Numbers

But I do not see "Pro" products on JVC's site, only the three grades "Premium", "Photo", and "Archival".
Who used to produce JVC discs, was it JVC themselves? Were these any good?

About other brands, there seems to be a huge wall of confusion:
digitalFAQ.com | Blank DVD Media Quality Guide

Verbatim appear to be predominantly made by Mitsubishy Chem. Copr. (MCC).

:confused: The main concern I have, I guess, is how on earth do you tell what you pick up in a shop is a good disc? It seems that Retail Brands have more than one source for their discs. :confused:

I have a few Sony 1-16x compatible AccuCore DVD-R. DVDIdentifier tells me these have a unique ID of [SONY16D1] - which, according to the above link, could be from 1 of 4 manufactures/countries: Daxon Japan/Taiwan/Malaysia or LeadData Taiwan, with only Jap/Tai Daxon being the best.
This will get you...the rear label on my case says "Made in India" ! :facepalm: (I bought them from Sainsbury's by the way, on a BoGoF offer)

I also have a few Sony 1-16x compatible AccuCore DVD+R. DVDIdentifier tells me these have a unique ID of [D21] - which, according to the above link, should be Japanese/Taiwanese Daxon. A good quality disc.
Once again, the rear packaging says "Made in India". (again, bought from Sainsbury's).

These discs haven't caused errors. But then again, I only write them at a max of 8x on the PC.

What a headache!
 

Luminance Leon

Standard Member
Another question I have, after searching for ways to identify Taiyo Yuden (preferable) or Mitsubishy Chem. Corp. media, is what speed is good on these machines?

Is 8x or 16x better, or should I say, more compatible media in these standalone recorders?

I have always been a fan of not burning any media at it's fully rated speed on my PC, but, as I mention before a PC is a bit different.

It's doubtful we will be using high speed copy facility on the Panasonic DMR-EX89. The manual says up to 12x on DVD-R.
Is there more compatibility with slower discs (even 4x if they can be found) if burning at 1x?

Thanks for all your help so far.
 

bonzobanana

Well-known Member
I would disagree with that digitalfaq site that has verbatim at the top as best blanks because they include india in that list which have been known to produce some rubbish verbatim discs with many coasters. Although I would agree that the MCC discs are very good generally nowadays they are made all over the place at varying qualities where as taiyo yudens are all made in japan with consistant quality. A good MCC disc is almost as good as taiyo yuden but only if its made in taiwan. The MCC disc seem fractionally harder to burn as they aren't as tolerant to worn older dvd writer mechanisms but if anything are a smidgen easier to read (dvd-r). I've no idea if the same is true of their dvd+r discs. I'm guessing the write strategy for mcc discs requires a stronger burn but this makes them a little bit easier to read.

The japanese made taiyo yudens probably the JVC archive grade professional discs with the scratch proof and anti-static coatings are the very best discs available.

I agree with what you say about not writing at full speed. It used to be said that if you have a disc that works at 2x, 4x and 8x then 4x is the best speed as its the middle speed however I've seen some test results since that negate that rule with some discs/dyes seem to work best at various speeds sometimes very slow and sometimes at near enough full speed. So I still use it as a general rule but its probably not right on every occasion. Also if you are copying some sort of protected media like a games console backup they always say write at the slowest speed for compatibility. My end verdict is to avoid the maximum speed of discs but feel reasonable safe with any speed below it.


Panasonic know what they are doing and as long as you supply the recorder with quality blanks I'm sure it will do a good job of recording them.

With taiyo yudens you can write discs safely without the irritation and waste of coasters and be sure that practically any drive can read them. Sorted.
 

Gavtech

Administrator
Another question I have, after searching for ways to identify Taiyo Yuden (preferable) or Mitsubishy Chem. Corp. media, is what speed is good on these machines?

Is 8x or 16x better, or should I say, more compatible media in these standalone recorders?

I have always been a fan of not burning any media at it's fully rated speed on my PC, but, as I mention before a PC is a bit different.

It's doubtful we will be using high speed copy facility on the Panasonic DMR-EX89. The manual says up to 12x on DVD-R.
Is there more compatibility with slower discs (even 4x if they can be found) if burning at 1x?

Thanks for all your help so far.

This is not an issue at all.
You do not have a choice of burning speeds on these machines when High Speed copying. [ ...with the exception that you can choose- in settings - a quiet mode which moderates the highest burning speeds ]

The machine circumstantially manages burning speeds.

You are strongly recommended to ALWAYS use the high speed copy mode, because it is lossless.
All real time copying involves a re-encoding process which involves a quality loss and is therefore obviously to be avoided where possible.

Do not equate these machines to burning experiences on PC's. The process here is much more automatic, well controlled and provided you use the quality media as recommend [ TYG03 is by definition 16x ] it will be problem free and reliable.

Use online retailers for disc supplies. The better ones will always provide manufacturer and dye codes with their product information.
Have a look at SVP.
 

Luminance Leon

Standard Member
Gavtech said:
This is not an issue at all.
You do not have a choice of burning speeds on these machines when High Speed copying. [ ...with the exception that you can choose- in settings - a quiet mode which moderates the highest burning speeds ]

The machine circumstantially manages burning speeds.

You are strongly recommended to ALWAYS use the high speed copy mode, because it is lossless.
All real time copying involves a re-encoding process which involves a quality loss and is therefore obviously to be avoided where possible.

Do not equate these machines to burning experiences on PC's. The process here is much more automatic, well controlled and provided you use the quality media as recommend [ TYG03 is by definition 16x ] it will be problem free and reliable.

Use online retailers for disc supplies. The better ones will always provide manufacturer and dye codes with their product information.
Have a look at SVP.

Fabulous Gavtek! That clears that up. So we can obtain better quality (lossless) recordings from HDD, and save a lot of time doing it.
That makes even more sense why there was so much negativity over the Sony RDRC205 which didn't support high speed copying - a potential quality issue deal breaker.

We will probably have a bash with a high speed copy (lossless) and a 1x copy (re-encoding) to see what difference there really is. But that will have to wait until we actually have the machine fist. Next week is gonna be fun!

:smashin:
Bonzobanana said:
I agree with what you say about not writing at full speed. It used to be said that if you have a disc that works at 2x, 4x and 8x then 4x is the best speed as its the middle speed however I've seen some test results since that negate that rule with some discs/dyes seem to work best at various speeds sometimes very slow and sometimes at near enough full speed. So I still use it as a general rule but its probably not right on every occasion. Also if you are copying some sort of protected media like a games console backup they always say write at the slowest speed for compatibility. My end verdict is to avoid the maximum speed of discs but feel reasonable safe with any speed below it.

So Bonzobanana , potentially 8x could be better for 1x writes. These would be the MIJ TYG02 dyes, or MIT MCC equiv (which appear to have gone, as Verbatim are only in 16x everywhere I look).

Either way, following Gavtek's advice regarding high speed, I think sticking to 16x discs is the easiest way to go.
TYG03 are soo well recommended by just about everyone, that it's worth grabbing a bunch and trying things out with them.



Thanks so much for all your quick, concise, and helpful information folks.
All the time I am reading more and more info, and having to sift the wheat from the chaff. It's good to hear I am slowly making my way onto the same track that you guys are pointing me to here.

Double thumbs up to you all

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 

tinytim

Active Member
It concerns me when people talk of writing at 1X. These days with quality , established media and decent DVD writers there really is nothing to be gained by writing so slowly. Modern burners have the writing strategies in their firmware optimised for sensible speeds and not for 1X burning. I nearly always burn 16x media at 12X and the disc quality scans produced by this speed are pretty damn good and I don't get any instances where the discs are unreadable in any of my or my family's players.

But if people want to burn at 1 - 2X then fine by me I'll just stick to doing what I know works well.

I used to be a moderator at CDFreaks where they do extensive testing of burners, media & speeds and no experienced member there would ever recommend such slow speed burning.
 

bonzobanana

Well-known Member
There definitely is a gain in writing at 1x in certain situations. Admittedly this is more about defeating copy protection systems but surely it indicates that a 1x copy is more accurate otherwise why would people trying to create perfect backups of commercial discs with protection recommend 1x copying? Often these backups don't work if copied faster. Also if you use an unknown (i.e. crap) disc not recognised by the dvd writer and it has to use auto write strategy often it limits the speed as a safeguard. I.e. slower burns are safer burns.

Lets face it though if your using only taiyo yuden's you don't have to care about the speed of burning with the possible exception of dual layer discs.
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
In the context of a table-top machine (as opposed to a PC burner) then the primary distinction about real-time copying vs. high-speed copying is, as Gavtech says, that real-time copying ALWAYS represents re-encoding (and hence loss) whereas high-speed copying ALWAYS represents a lossless copy of the data on the HDD. That is the ONLY factor here.
 

bonzobanana

Well-known Member
Samsung dvd recorders with freeview only dub at 1x recording speed (not realtime) and have no ability to re-encode at all when dubbing. So 8hrs of EP (8hr mode) recordings take 1hr to write to disc, 1hr of XP recordings also take 1 hour as all dubbing is at 1x.

This seemed a really awful feature of the samsung's and massively inferior to the older sonys and the panasonics but now I've seen the Sony DC range it doesn't seem as bad.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Paramount + UK launch: Halo, Star Trek and Beavis, and all the latest 4K + Movie/TV News
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom