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Which format is better and most cost effective?

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by la gran siete, Jun 4, 2005.

  1. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    particularly with HDTV in mind . LCD, DLP, CRT or Plasma? They all seem to have their strength and weaknesses. Plasma is too big for me and with a lifespan of 30000 seems a poor return and they are heavy too. CRT as yet dont appear to have any HD compatible sets here.So it would appear to be between LCD and DLP and I know absolutely nothing about the latter except they cost about £1800.????
     
  2. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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  3. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    Thanks ! pity the demo link doesnt work
     
  4. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    The link works for me.

    Each technology has its own pro's and con's. You have to decide which is the most important to you. 30,000 hours is pretty good for a TV - that's about 10 years use at 8 hours a day. With DLP you have to change the lamp at about 2000 hours, and that will set you back at least £200, and they're big and heavy too. We don't really know the lifespan of LCD, but the lamp has a lifetime of about 50,000 hours.

    The choice has to be yours :)
     
  5. TheBoingoBandit

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    Avctually it's closer to 60,000 hours. Gawd knows where you got 5,000 from/! :(
     
  6. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    Actually the average lamp life is around the 8-10K mark and by then the cost of a new lamp will be negligable. Also they're no bigger or heavier than an equivalent sized plasma on a stand. In fact I'm currently looking at the Panasonic 37THPV500 plasma and the new Samung SP46L6HX DLP TV and it would surprise you to know that the 46" Samsung is only 5cm wider than the 37" Panny, it weighs less and takes up a smaller footprint than the plasma with it's cabinet.
     
  7. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Sorry, typo ! 40,000 to 60,000 hours. Average = 50,000 hours :)

    Original now corrected.
     
  8. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Well, some people that own DLP sets have already had to change lamps, and they didn't call the cost negligable. Look in the DLP section, you'll find them. I'm not defending or promoting any of the technolgies - I own all of them, and I'm well aware of all the pro's and con's. I don't own a back-projected DLP, but I own a DLP projector.
     
  9. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    What I was getting at was that if you bought a DLP TV now by the time your lamp dies, assuming it was 8-10K hrs ie, 3-5 years, the price would be considerably lower. Those who have had to replace lamps after only a short period have clearly had faults and would probably have some redress against the manufacturer.
     
  10. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Well I'd like to know where you get the 8000 to 10,000 hours from. In this link it's quoted as between 1000 and 3000 hours.

    It is safe to list the lamp life for most DLP front and rear projection televisions between 1000 and 2000 hours. I know that’s a cop out, but it’s hard to nail down a direct length of time. Some lamps might last only 500 hours while others may last 3000 hours. "

    The problem with metal halide lamps is that they don't behave like normal filament or cold-cathode lamps. They are gas-discharge lamps which run at a very high temperature, and can fail prematurely. They are also very expensive to manufacture, and although the price is likely to fall with increased production, I doubt whether the price will ever be "negligable".
     
  11. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    Think its going to have to be LCD for me plasma and dlp would appear to be far too large the Tosh 46WM48 seems unrelaible and ,frankly , 30000 hrs for £2000 + plamsa isnt good enough. More expensive = better quality AND longer lifespan to me otherwise whats the point.I dont believe in changing things on a yearly basis. I understand backlights can be replaced on LCDs as well.My only other option would be an HD ready CRT ( if there were such a thing) I understand there may be some thin ones in the near future
     
  12. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Actually, most current plasma displays quote 60,000 hours. Quite frankly, I'm sure I'll be ready to change mine in 5 years :)
     
  13. jimsan

    jimsan
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    HD CRT's exist...but not in huge numbers and not in Europe. There'll be a few around, but I can't see them ever becoming popular.

    Jimmy
     
  14. neilmcl

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    Nick, I'm not sure how old that article was but it doesn't reflect todays technology. Most manufacturers of DLP RPTVs, including Samsung, Optoma and Sagem are claiming bulb life of 8 and 10000 hrs upwards. Look at the following taken from Samsung USA - http://erms.samsungusa.com/customer/sea/jsp/faqs/faqs_view.jsp?PG_ID=3&AT_ID=6152&PROD_SUB_ID=41&PROD_ID=-1 . Read some of the posts on the DLP forum about bulb life, it really isn't an issue.
     
  15. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    5 yearss ?? no way Jose. At £2000 I''d expect 15 years minimum at top notch performance and then be repairable.
    It would be like buying a car for 20 grand and then having to junk it after 5 years use?????
    my current widescreen is 5 years old and is still giving me good service - cost £350. Thats value!
     
  16. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    I have read them, and I've also read posts from people on this forum who have had lamps fail after 200 hours. Whilst I'm not saying that this is typical, it is fairly possible, because the lifetime of metal halide lamps is nowhere near as predictable as filament or cold cathode lamps. Do you really think manufacturers are going to tell you this in their adverts ? How many TV's would they sell if they did ? Often the lamp life quoted is the "low brightness" setting, which is not the default setting.
     
  17. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    There's more of them than you think - connected to PC's :smashin:
     
  18. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    The point is, if a manufacturer claims that the their bub lfe is 8000 hrs and then fails after only 1000 then you're perfectly within your rights to get something done. Your quite right in saying this could happen albeit it's not typical but then again all of the other technologies have their own problems and it tends to be forums like this and others that highlights them, which is the nature of these forums. Personally, I'd rather have to deal with a bulb failure then have some of the things taht go wrong with a plasma or LCD screen which invariably tend to be terminal in nature.
     
  19. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    I have read some of the postings in the dlp forum anbd there seem to be reliabilty issues with some of the screens typically after only 3 months use( Toshiba for eg . I have also read elsewhere that the only thing to go wrong with them is the bulb???? It seems more case of wait and see as all this technology is very much in its infancy still
     
  20. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    I agree totally but it has to be said that people tend to post more often when things tend to go wrong rather when everythings hunky dory and there's just as many if not more posts on the LCD and plasma forums regarding technical problems than there is on the DLP forum.
     
  21. Nick_UK

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    Do you actually own a DLP TV or projector ? Have you read the small print on the warranty ? After the warranty has expired, you are basically on your own - it doesn't matter what the advertising blurb says - it's what the warranty says that counts. Manufacturers know that they can claim a 8000 hour lamp life, because the warranty for the DLP says 12 months, and you don't have a leg to stand on, especially in the UK, because Advertising Standards does not apply to claims made on manufacturers web sites.
     
  22. neilmcl

    neilmcl
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    Nick, can we let this one go now as I don't think it's particularly helpful for others reading this thread. All I've been trying to do is show other readers that the manufacturers claims of bulb life is around 8-10K hrs and not the 2000 that you mentioned in your original and very definitive post:

    Whether this claim by the manufacturers is actually realistic is another matter entirely which we could argue 'til the cows come home. Perhaps it would have been better if you had said that some posters have had to replace bulbs long before their quoted life and left it at that.

    I don't own a DLP RPTV as yet, I'm still undecided, but I don't see how this matters as I was just quoting whats already been stated. As far as the expense of a bulb, I don't think either of us can be sure as to what the cost of these will be in 3-5 years time, you indeed may be right. As far as manufacturers warranties are concerned, it isn't the end once they expire, there such things as Consumer Rights and if you can prove that something has failed due to an inherent manufacturing fault then things can be done about it.
     
  23. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    If the lamps last between 8 and 10000 hrs and if replacements come down substantially in price then DLPs are worth considering.
    'Question I have - are LCD backlights replaceable and at what cost?
     
  24. Nick_UK

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    In most cases they are replaceable. They should not be too expensive, because they are only cold-cathode tubes, similar to a fluorescent tube. What manufacturers actually charge might be an entirely different kettle of fish :)
     
  25. Nick_UK

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    As a DLP pj owner with a lamp that has already used up 10% of its quoted life of 2000 hours, I hope you are correct in your assumptions. However, in another thread in the DLP section, you will see another post (not by me) about DLP lamps where it is suggested that the cost of these lamps will never come down by much, because each new pj and tv that comes out uses a different lamp and prism assembly, usually an "improved version". Only when lamps are standardised will you see a price drop, and that does not appear to be happening, but (as a DLP owner) I live in hopes.
     
  26. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    Or retailers :)

    Seems to me that LCDs will be my best bet so long as I buy the right one :)
     
  27. neilmcl

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    Nick, one thing I didn't realise and perhaps may be a cause for the confusion is that the quoted bulb life figures are different for projectors, ie, 2000-3000 hrs (proj) and 8000-10000 hrs (rptv), I was just referring to RPTVs. Are the bulbs substantially different, I have noticed that some projector bulbs run at 200w whereas the rptv ones are 120w.
     
  28. Nick_UK

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    Yes, that is possible, but I still can't see why the same type of lamp (and some pj lamps are only 120-150W) is claimed to last 4x as long in a TV ? My projector "nags" you to change the lamp when the timer reaches the lamp life. I'm fairly sure that it refuses to work at all once you have exceeded the rated life by 500 hours. The problem with these lamps is that they tend to fail rather explosively, which doesn't really do much good to sensitive optics.
     
  29. Faust

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    Well I read a very interesting quotation the other day which goes something like this "something can only be considered good value for money if it's what you really want" So you have first got to make your mind up that what you are buying is really the thing you want, only then can it be considered good value for money. The analogy of buying a car for 20K then junking it after five years wasn't the best either, as most cars costing 20K today would not be worth much anyway in five years time. Just consider how many hours a day you watch t.v. for anyway. I am lucky if I get to watch 4 hours a day, and as already been stated 50000 hours at 8 hours a day would give you at least ten years lifespan. Come to think of it, if you are watching t.v. eight hours a day you need to get out more. :D
     

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