Which dual subs?

mb3195

Distinguished Member
My point is that the KK DXD brand was well established, but you’ll get no support from them now.
Yeah that’s the thing, this can happen to any brand, regardless of how well established they are.


Much appreciated, thank you. I’ll take you up on that. I’ve had a look at your cinema build and it’s awesome 👍
I’m not doubting the performance of these subs, but having been burnt with a broken KK sub that’s now a brick, I’m now leaning towards SVS or M&K where I’m more likely to get assured support from in the UK and in the future should I have an issue.
Just let me know when mate, I can be pretty flexible.
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
arendal are 6 years old now, when do they become a more established brand?

You could throw the same at the likes of Trinnov and Zappiti not so long ago, you don't see people worrying about buying their products.

Arendal are growing massively, their market share is getting bigger and bigger, quoting claims being made on here aren't very helpful to their business, especially when they are unsubstantiated.
I haven't made any unsubstantiated claims but have merely stated a few facts and I've stated a few more below.

There's no objective benchmark for when a brand is "established", that's purely subjective opinion. You also have to separate brands from companies as the former tend to survive when the latter fail and usually take any warranty liability with them. Personally, I think I would buy from Arendal but in doing so I'd be very conscious that I would probably be taking a greater risk than with some other brands, especially if not buying from a UK retailer.

Seeing as you mentioned Arendal's 6 year trading history, I'd be curious to know which legal entity the brand has been trading through for the last 6 years. I couldn't find a reference to the current company (registered number/address etc.) through which it operates on its website (against UK law as we have to know who we are contracting with over here) so I searched online for its owner and found this info. on a credit check site.

Arendal.jpg


I'm sure there's a legitimate story behind it but this information indicates that the current companies behind the brand were only formed 15 months ago and have 1-3 employees so it appears that the Arendal brand was sold last year. Hopefully for past customers, liability for warranties on products sold before that date were legally assigned to the new trading entity as part of the sale.
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
My point is that the KK DXD brand was well established, but you’ll get no support from them now.
But it wasn’t that well established. Then pulled out of the residential market. Look at the original history of M&K. Stuff happens to companies.

We don’t supply Arendal but they are a good company with great support.
We are building a £750k showroom. We have got to make sales to continue. Yes we have tons of work booked for the rest of the year and projects for 2022 but business is business.
 

Furnace Inferno

Well-known Member
arendal are 6 years old now, when do they become a more established brand?

You could throw the same at the likes of Trinnov and Zappiti not so long ago, you don't see people worrying about buying their products.

Arendal are growing massively, their market share is getting bigger and bigger, quoting claims being made on here aren't very helpful to their business, especially when they are unsubstantiated.
I think Trinnov is a little different since they have government funding and much higher margins.

Zappiti too have much higher margins for what they are offering, I mean €3000 just for the NAS enclosure, disc drive and automated ripping software which I assume is just a basic program that looks for the biggest file (I’m curious how it selects the correct one when there a multiples of the same length but with different embedded region specific scenes?). That’s the price you pay for convenience I guess, the hours I poured into getting all my films onto a NAS (including all extras which you can’t do on the Zappiti but added serious time to the process!) isn’t time I’ll ever see again but if I had the money to burn the Kaleidescape would be mine without any hassle.

Now there is a product which could stop at anytime having already been closed down once before recently. Personally I couldn’t risk that much on that platform and being left with a 6 figure paperweight.
 

Tom @ PSA

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Insight into the company I mean. I’m reluctant to spend a couple of grand on equipment from a small company that appear to have been established for just 5 years or so and could be gone again this time next year.

Nothing is ever guaranteed but Jan at lsound(home of Arendal) has been well established in the audio industry for decades now---going back to the 1990s iirc. I would have zero concerns about anything with his stamp of approval on it. The guy knows his stuff.

Tom V.
 

Tom @ PSA

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
arendal are 6 years old now, when do they become a more established brand?

Jan/lsound are the home to Arendal. Jan has been at this for decades. At this point if anyone is going on about Arendal being a huge risk to "fold" up they really don't have a clue imo.

Tom V.
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
Nothing is ever guaranteed but Jan at lsound(home of Arendal) has been well established in the audio industry for decades now---going back to the 1990s iirc. I would have zero concerns about anything with his stamp of approval on it. The guy knows his stuff.

Tom V.
I appreciate the insight.
I would say that Ken Kreisel knows his stuff too, but that doesn’t help me obtain parts for a discontinued line of his subs.
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
I’ve contacted Arendal for some advice on equivalent dual subs to replace my DXD’s - I am tempted by their range. I believe Jan was linked with LSound and used to sell the DXD range, so it will be interesting to see what they say.
 

Tom @ PSA

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
I appreciate the insight.
I would say that Ken Kreisel knows his stuff too, but that doesn’t help me obtain parts for a discontinued line of his subs.

There's more to running a sustainable brand than knowing how to engineer a decent subwoofer. Jan's been at this for 20(?) years now. So I think your definition of "stuff" is dramatically different than mine. But if I were you I'd wait 20 more years to purchase anything. This way in 2041 you can be happy knowing Jan's got 40 years under his belt instead of "only" 20..:)

Tom V.
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
There's more to running a sustainable brand than knowing how to engineer a decent subwoofer. Jan's been at this for 20(?) years now. So I think your definition of "stuff" is dramatically different than mine. But if I were you I'd wait 20 more years to purchase anything. This way in 2041 you can be happy knowing Jan's got 40 years under his belt instead of "only" 20..:)

Tom V.
There’s more to running a business than being in the industry for 20 or even 40 years, something I am very well versed in, hence my concern in buying a niche product.
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member

simonb3665

Active Member
I am not sure how you can get the guarantees you need. 5 years warranty on electronics is as good as it will get and as you state there is always a chance any warranty will not be honored.
Even if new amps are available for purchase you will most likely be looking at a good chunk of the cost of the original sub. From experience, SVS are very reasonable at about £500 for a plate amp replacement and they tend to keep standard sizes etc so still fit older models.
You could just get an off shelf amplifier and use that on the failed kk. Its not the easiest one to do though with the drivers being out of the mechanical phase. Maybe Ken will share the eq used if you are in correspondence with him.
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
I am not sure how you can get the guarantees you need. 5 years warranty on electronics is as good as it will get and as you state there is always a chance any warranty will not be honored.
Even if new amps are available for purchase you will most likely be looking at a good chunk of the cost of the original sub. From experience, SVS are very reasonable at about £500 for a plate amp replacement and they tend to keep standard sizes etc so still fit older models.
You could just get an off shelf amplifier and use that on the failed kk. Its not the easiest one to do though with the drivers being out of the mechanical phase. Maybe Ken will share the eq used if you are in correspondence with him.
Nothing is guaranteed unfortunately, I appreciate that. I was just being cautious having been stung with the DXD sub.
I’ve spoken at length with the Ampman engineer and asked about swapping out the amps/modules, but it seems it’s not as simple as that. They have the schematics on the modules from Claridy in the USA, so I should find out in the next week or 2 if it’s repairable.
I‘ve spent some time reading reviews and customer comments on Arendal equipment and I’ve also had a few email conversations with them. I have to say I’m impressed so if the DXD can’t be fixed, I’ll be ordering either 2 x 1961 Sub1S (Arendal’s recommendation) or possibly 2 x SVS 2000 SB pros, but I’m leaning towards the Arendals now to be honest.
Thanks for all the insight everyone. I knew nothing about Arendal before starting this thread and I’m now a fan 👍
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
Unfortunately I've not had time to write up a full on technical review (with graphs etc.), work has has been non-stop. I can, however, report that the Sub 1s is quite simply fantastic! This 'baby' Arendal really does pack a mighty punch, easily outperforming much bigger and more expensive subs from the usual suspects.

The test system -

Anthem MRX-720
Arendal 1723 Tower S L&R
Arendal 1723 Centre S
Arendal 1723 Surround S
Arendal 1723 Sub 1 (dual)
  • Arendal Sub 1s
  • Arendal Sub 1v

The dual Sub 1 sub's were removed from the system, and replaced by the single 1s to kick things off. We spent a good few hours listening to different music genres and numerous tried and tested movie demo clips, and despite only having a few hours on it, the Sub 1s blended effortlessly with the rest of the system. One of the first things we noticed was how much the rubber surround on the driver moved, totally mesmerising, and an indication of how well this thing performs. The room we were in is challenging in that it had an open staircase to the first floor, but the Sub 1s had no difficulty pressurising the room, and was certainly happily giving my back a good kicking at every opportunity!

We switched over to the Sub 1v and ran it both ported and sealed, using the same tracks and demo clips as before. Now it's likely that it needed more hours, but it sounded a bit too 'boomy' for my liking, even in sealed mode. We probably could have tweaked the settings to improve things, but decided to turn our attention back to the 1s for the rest of the session. I'll come back to the 1v later.

We were interested to see whether the 1s would integrate with a 1723 Sub 1 (just for fun), and they actually went really well together. We switched back and forth between dual Sub 1's and the 1s and Sub 1 combo, and it was difficult to tell the difference. Sure, the 1s doesn't quite have the output of the Sub 1, but it's not far off, and considering the 1s digs a little deeper than the Sub 1, is smaller, weighs less and is slightly cheaper, I could easily pick the 1s over the Sub 1. In fact, if I was in the market for new subs, I would think seriously about putting a 1s in each corner of the room - or stacking duals in each corner :laugh:

Now there are some minor negatives regarding cosmetic aspects . The matte finish isn't quite as good as the satin finish of the 1723 range in my opinion. That black cabinet is going to be a nightmare to keep clean, and matte white is probably even worse. Gloss finishes are not my preference anyway, but for some, the lack of a gloss option could be an issue.

The cabinet styling has also been changed from the 1723 range, gone is the ridge near the bottom of the cabinet. I like this design feature on the 1723's as it looks like the towers and subs are standing on a base, lifting the cabinet above the floor. The 1s and 1v's solid cabinet sits lower, even with the new puck's (that will leave an Arendal logo imprint in your carpet!!!).

Cosmetic issues aside, I would definitely be happy with the 1s in my system. I briefly contemplated getting four in place of my dual Sub 2's........

The 1v on the other hand, well no it isn't for me, particularly as I have no interest in ported subs. It's a big cabinet (as can be seen in the following images), so you need the space for it. I guess it may appeal to some, but I don't think it will be as popular as the 1s - which I think outperforms and offers better value for money than other subs in the same category.

Sub 1s sat on top of the Sub 1v, with a 1723s Tower behind.


I came across the above review of the Arendal 1961 1s vs 1v on the Arendal owners thread, which has reinforced my decision that the dual Sub 1s is the way to go for me. I’m almost hoping my DXD can’t be fixed now, so that I have the excuse to place my order With Arendal!
Should find out next week when I phone Ampman.
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
They do shop returns with the same warranty and a bit cheaper
Who does? Sorry I’m not clear. I thought you could only buy directly from Arendal?
 

Toobad

Active Member
Arendal have an Outlet page on their website. These comprise of customer returns or items that have been sent out for review. There will be some minor marking but the electronics are checked to be working 100%.

Arendal Outlet Items
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
Arendal have an Outlet page on their website. These comprise of customer returns or items that have been sent out for review. There will be some minor marking but the electronics are checked to be working 100%.

Arendal Outlet Items
Ah that is useful, thanks. 👍
 

maxkolonko123

Well-known Member

I came across the above review of the Arendal 1961 1s vs 1v on the Arendal owners thread, which has reinforced my decision that the dual Sub 1s is the way to go for me. I’m almost hoping my DXD can’t be fixed now, so that I have the excuse to place my order With Arendal!
Should find out next week when I phone Ampman.
So suddenly from " don't know if this company will survive in future" you hope your sub can't be fixed so you can go with Arendal? People telling you how good arendal equipment is wasn't enough but one review was? 🤔
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
So suddenly from " don't know if this company will survive in future" you hope your sub can't be fixed so you can go with Arendal? People telling you how good arendal equipment is wasn't enough but one review was? 🤔
Er no! You obviously haven’t read all my posts, as you’d see I’ve looked at numerous reviews and been in conversation with Arendal themselves before warming to these subs.
I’m no more confident now that Arendal will be around for spare parts in the long term future given the company were recently established and very small. I hope they are, but I’ve seen many small companies fail or sell up over the years in my business, so I can speak from experience, but my heart is ruling my head on this occasion.
 

KEN KREISEL

Active Member
I have not been on AVForums for a very long time as I was repeatedly "censored" by various thread administrators. Please email me directly if you have questions about DXD support, especially regarding repairs of the Claridy Audio/InterSource OEM amplifiers used in the DXD-12012 and DXD-808.

I am sure everyone can figure out how to email me. I have never been permitted to post my email address or anything else at AVForums.
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
I have not been on AVForums for a very long time as I was repeatedly "censored" by various thread administrators. Please email me directly if you have questions about DXD support, especially regarding repairs of the Claridy Audio/InterSource OEM amplifiers used in the DXD-12012 and DXD-808.

I am sure everyone can figure out how to email me. I have never been permitted to post my email address or anything else at AVForums.
Hi Ken,
Thanks for taking the time to contribute. You and I have already emailed each other several months ago regards repairs on my DXD808 and you pointed me in the direction of Ampman Audio Services in the UK.
They’ve now had the sub in for repair since May and are still working their way through trying to fix it. They’ve been in touch with Claridy and even signed an NDA for the schematics of the module that needs repairing. Turns out there’s now a chip that needs replacing but no longer produced, so I’m now waiting for an update on a possible resolution from AAS as they were going to contact Claridy for advice.
 

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
That's what is annoying about active sub, if the amp dies, and no longer available you have a brick. I do like the appeal of passive subs in this way, just a pity 99.9% of home cinema subs are active.

If I was spending thousands on subs I'd rather have passive JTR RS2, with rack mounted stereo power amp.

Why isn't there a market for a stereo power amp, with customisable DSP where you upload a profile for that sub, provided by the manufacter? So if I had SVS SB Ultra 16 it comes with profile for that sub. If I had JTR RS2 it comes with another profile, I upload it to the amp, so any custom propiertary DSP filtering etc is done.

And if that amp blows 10 years down the line, I just order a replacement new version of it and re-upload sub profiles.
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
Final update:
Ampman Audio Services have confirmed that Claridy have been able to recommend an alternative chip to the original one fitted. However, due to the current chip shortage, there is a 6 month wait for it 🤦🏼‍♂️
I’ve called it a day and asked them not to bother ordering the part or carry out further repairs now that I’ve purchased 2 Arendal subs to replace the DXD808’s.
The cost of repair is already at just under £400 and they can’t guarantee it won’t increase further, so given that I was going to sell it on anyway, it’s barely financially viable and I can’t be doing with the hassle.
 

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