Which dual subs?

Webbserver

Well-known Member
Looking for opinions here please.

I’m currently using dual Ken Kreisel DXD-808 subwoofers, but one of them has failed and given I’m struggling to find a replacement, I’m now considering alternatives.

Current speakers are M&K S125 LCR, M&K S-85 ceiling and M&K columns.
The system is in my lounge, so it’s rare for me to watch movies at reference levels, but I like to be able to crank up the system for the odd movie/tune to remind myself how fun it can be!

Given the limited space I have in the front corners of my room for subs in terms of width (40cm each max) I’ve narrowed it down to either dual SVS SB-2000’s or would dual PB-1000’s be sufficient?
I’ve owned a single BK Monolith previously and I prefer the tighter performance of the KK subs.
I’ve also looked at the BK P12-300SB-PR, but opinions appear to suggest the SVS are more capable?
My decision won’t be based on cost, just performance.

My room is a sealed 4.90m x 3.70m x 2.30m.

What would you go for?
 
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Jester1066

Well-known Member
I've gone for 2x SVS SB2000 Pro's in a similar sized (4.57 x 3m) room. I previously owned a single BK P12-300SB-PR - its performance was great. Had it not been for my OH preferring the slightly smaller footprint of the SVS, I'd have probably got another P12 and saved £500 against the cost of the 2 SVS's.

Having said that. My system use is 50/50 music to movies and I prefer sealed subs for music. The app and mini band PEQ on the SVS is also an useful feature.
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
If you like the tightness and accuracy of the KK subs then the MK Sound V12 or better still X10 would be the way to go especially as you are running MK speakers. V12 360mm wide and X10 374mm.

Both will give better performance than the BK and SVS mentioned.

[email protected]
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
I wouldn't count out the Arendal 1961 1s either great little sub
Do you have first hand experience of these vs other subs? I do like the look and idea of these, but just not a brand I’m that familiar with.
 

martin 39

Well-known Member
I have the same sub really good from my experience coming from a 20yr old rel i had from new. My mate has the svs sb2000 pro and we have played about with both and cant tell any difference in the same room. Only thing the Arendal doesn't have is the app. It must be good my mrs is always telling me to turn it down
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
If you like the tightness and accuracy of the KK subs then the MK Sound V12 or better still X10 would be the way to go especially as you are running MK speakers. V12 360mm wide and X10 374mm.

Both will give better performance than the BK and SVS mentioned.

[email protected]
Good call. However, perhaps I should rephrase my suggestion that the cost won’t be a factor as I know the MK,s are a premium price and £5k for 2 x X10’s is more than I can justify for my system.
2 x V12 could be an option, but do they really justify the £2500 compared to other subs like the SVS SB2000 pro at £1800 a pair? I guess cost is a factor after all 🤦🏼‍♂️
I have to admit that I purchased the KK’s used for around £600 each, so hadn’t considered spending much more than that to replace them.
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
I've gone for 2x SVS SB2000 Pro's in a similar sized (4.57 x 3m) room. I previously owned a single BK P12-300SB-PR - its performance was great. Had it not been for my OH preferring the slightly smaller footprint of the SVS, I'd have probably got another P12 and saved £500 against the cost of the 2 SVS's.

Having said that. My system use is 50/50 music to movies and I prefer sealed subs for music. The app and mini band PEQ on the SVS is also an useful feature.
So do you think the performance of the P12 was on a par with the SB2000 pro then?
I actually quite like the look of the P12 in black as it matches my M&K speakers, but I’m concerned that even 2 of them won’t live up to my expectations in terms of performance.
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Good call. However, perhaps I should rephrase my suggestion that the cost won’t be a factor as I know the MK,s are a premium price and £5k for 2 x X10’s is more than I can justify for my system.
2 x V12 could be an option, but do they really justify the £2500 compared to other subs like the SVS SB2000 pro at £1800 a pair? I guess cost is a factor after all 🤦🏼‍♂️
I have to admit that I purchased the KK’s used for around £600 each, so hadn’t considered spending much more than that to replace them.
A good point.
Dual X10’s will cost £6k amd dual V12’s £2.7k.
The MK subs will have a tighter and more controlled bass. We also sell SVS and they are great value and high performing subs but for accuracy we choose M&K.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
So do you think the performance of the P12 was on a par with the SB2000 pro then?
I actually quite like the look of the P12 in black as it matches my M&K speakers, but I’m concerned that even 2 of them won’t live up to my expectations in terms of performance.
That's actually quite hard to quantify. The P12300SB-PR is a sort of hybrid sub, in as much that it's a sealed sub with a passive radiator at the bottom. BK also don't publish how low their various subs go (in terms of pure frequency response).I'd give Tom @ BK a call as he'll likely be able to give more info on this.

Unfortunately I've not done a full side by side comparison of the BK vs SVS as I'm awaiting a custom cabinet build, so most of my AV kit isn't set up atm. The cabinet should be installed/completed by mid-end July, so I can put the SVS's through their paces properly.

My rationale for going for the SVS's was as follows:

1. Sealed subs are generally considered better for music (system use 50/50 as mentioned ealier).

2. The SVS's are marginally smaller than the P12. The OH was happy to approve 2x SVS's but not 2x P12's.... Even though the latter are cheaper and have a more premium feel (real wood vaneer, vs vinyl) - imo

3. Going dual (for me) was much more to do with even bass response, rather than pure output in terms of decibels performance. On that score both the P12 & SB2000 Pro are more than satisfactory in my room.

How do you intend placing the subs? Mine are (going to be) approximately ¼ wall placement (as per pic) inside my mains:
 

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mb3195

Distinguished Member
Do you have first hand experience of these vs other subs? I do like the look and idea of these, but just not a brand I’m that familiar with.
I the arendal 1723 range will be better than anything else recommended although they 1961 is still an awesome sub for the money.
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
What would you go for?
Out of the options you listed, I would personally go for PB-1000 Pros because I know I much prefer the sound of ported subs for movies.

Only if you consider yourself a critical music listener would I consider a sealed sub. SVS ported subs are also much better with music than you might think as their ports are tuned very deeply (PB-1000 Pro is 17Hz) so they don't have much impact on the sub's output at typical music frequencies. I own a (non-Pro) SB-2000 and a pair of PB-3000s that are used in different systems and the ported subs give away extremely little, if anything, in terms of SQ with music. Many independent reviews confirm this but I would certainly try and get a demo before buying to see for yourself.
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
A good point.
Dual X10’s will cost £6k amd dual V12’s £2.7k.
The MK subs will have a tighter and more controlled bass. We also sell SVS and they are great value and high performing subs but for accuracy we choose M&K.
So MK Sound aside, you’d recommend the SVS? Given my
That's actually quite hard to quantify. The P12300SB-PR is a sort of hybrid sub, in as much that it's a sealed sub with a passive radiator at the bottom. BK also don't publish how low their various subs go (in terms of pure frequency response).I'd give Tom @ BK a call as he'll likely be able to give more info on this.

Unfortunately I've not done a full side by side comparison of the BK vs SVS as I'm awaiting a custom cabinet build, so most of my AV kit isn't set up atm. The cabinet should be installed/completed by mid-end July, so I can put the SVS's through their paces properly.

My rationale for going for the SVS's was as follows:

1. Sealed subs are generally considered better for music (system use 50/50 as mentioned ealier).

2. The SVS's are marginally smaller than the P12. The OH was happy to approve 2x SVS's but not 2x P12's.... Even though the latter are cheaper and have a more premium feel (real wood vaneer, vs vinyl) - imo

3. Going dual (for me) was much more to do with even bass response, rather than pure output in terms of decibels performance. On that score both the P12 & SB2000 Pro are more than satisfactory in my room.

How do you intend placing the subs? Mine are (going to be) approximately ¼ wall placement (as per pic) inside my mains:
I couldn’t consider any other than a dual setup again, purely due to the smooth response in virtually every seat of my sofa.
I have no room on either side walls or rear wall for the subs. The ONLY place the subs can live are in the front left and right corners of my lounge as my speakers sit on stands just inside them and would block the view of my motorised screen if I moved the speakers in any further.
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Yes we would have no issue recommending SVS subs. Dual subs is the way to go.
We supply many of these. Procella Audio subs are also excellent but too wide for your space although very slimline.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Do you have first hand experience of these vs other subs? I do like the look and idea of these, but just not a brand I’m that familiar with.

1961 1S just won group test for best sound etc. SB2000 Pro and M&K V10 was in this test too. All sounding good as you can imagine in this price range.



Around 700-750£ shipped to home. Same warranty as with SVS and great support/service as we have seen since 2015 or so. LSound.eu sold SVS products many years and then put own brand up to beat them. Lots of reviews on the site and we have owners threads here at AVF.

 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
1961 1S just won group test for best sound etc. SB2000 Pro and M&K V10 was in this test too. All sounding good as you can imagine in this price range.



Around 700-750£ shipped to home. Same warranty as with SVS and great support/service as we have seen since 2015 or so. LSound.eu sold SVS products many years and then put own brand up to beat them. Lots of reviews on the site and we have owners threads here at AVF.

Shame it’s in Swedish and I can’t understand a word 😂
 
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Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Don’t forget a V12 has much more output and attack than a V10.
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
You can copy/paste put the bits on google translator like i did. :laugh:
Yeah did that. Not an easy read though.
If I’m honest, my concern with cottage companies like Arendal is future support and parts - Ken Kreisel is a case in point in that you can’t obtain the parts anymore for the DXD range hence I now have a bricked high end sub!
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
10 year warranty on MK drivers and cabinet. 5 years on plate amp.
 

DodgeTheViper

Moderator
If I’m honest, my concern with cottage companies like Arendal is future support and parts - Ken Kreisel is a case in point in that you can’t obtain the parts anymore for the DXD range hence I now have a bricked high end sub!
That’s not what Arendal are, they’re far bigger than that. And probably were from the outset.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I'd edge towards Arendal.

If you can fit their side drivers into your setup for their subwoofer range, they're a no brainer. Straight down to 10hz, beautiful fit and finish, promised dynamics, winning blind tests galore, ports at the rear so little to no port wind, excellent warranty coverage, easy to buy duals from them, extensive subwoofer line with multiple subs of varying performance whilst still packing the same driver for easy integration if you want to upgrade etc.

Negatives for them would be price, the driver being on the side rather than facing infront (makes it a pain to position, the 2V being very tall, app isnt out yet if that matters to u etc.

ur room is quite big.. if u can fit in a monoprice monolith 15, i dont think u will get better performance for its money and in that room it will go straight down to 10hz. u can put it on its side. but if u cant afford the space or dont want a fridge-sized subwoofer in ur room.. i'd go for arendal in a heart beat (if u can give the driver on the side the clearance it needs).
 

Webbserver

Well-known Member
I'd edge towards Arendal.

If you can fit their side drivers into your setup for their subwoofer range, they're a no brainer. Straight down to 10hz, beautiful fit and finish, promised dynamics, winning blind tests galore, ports at the rear so little to no port wind, excellent warranty coverage, easy to buy duals from them, extensive subwoofer line with multiple subs of varying performance whilst still packing the same driver for easy integration if you want to upgrade etc.

Negatives for them would be price, the driver being on the side rather than facing infront (makes it a pain to position, the 2V being very tall, app isnt out yet if that matters to u etc.

ur room is quite big.. if u can fit in a monoprice monolith 15, i dont think u will get better performance for its money and in that room it will go straight down to 10hz. u can put it on its side. but if u cant afford the space or dont want a fridge-sized subwoofer in ur room.. i'd go for arendal in a heart beat (if u can give the driver on the side the clearance it needs).
Monoprice Monolith? Can you get them in the UK? I’ve owned a BK Monolith. The bloody thing was a monster. They’re far too large for the 40cm space I have in each corner for the subs. I also found the performance of the Ken Kreisel subs much tighter and controlled than the Monolith. That could have been because I only had a single Monolith that wasn’t ideally placed, but I’m assuming it due to the quality of the KK subs….when they’re working!
One potential problem I can see with the Arendal side firing arrangement is the driver on the sub in the right hand corner would be just an inch or 2 from an interior wall? The KK subs are also side firing and placement against a wall was encouraged, so maybe this wouldn’t be an issue?
 
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Webbserver

Well-known Member
That’s not what Arendal are, they’re far bigger than that. And probably were from the outset.
They’re a very young company and based overseas which doesn’t fill me with confidence for long term support, especially in this climate?
I had a quick look at their website and couldn’t find out much about them. Can you offer any insight?
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Monoprice Monolith? Can you get them in the UK? I’ve owned a BK Monolith. The bloody thing was a monster. They’re far too large for the 40cm space I have in each corner for the subs. I also found the performance of the Ken Kreisel subs much tighter and controlled than the Monolith. That could have been because I only had a single Monolith that wasn’t ideally placed, but I’m assuming it due to the quality of the KK subs….when they’re working!
One potential problem I can see with the Arendal side firing arrangement is the driver on the sub in the right hand corner would be just an inch or 2 from an interior wall? The KK subs are also side firing and placement against a wall was encouraged, so maybe this wouldn’t be an issue?
Yup. They are massive though. I went from a BK Monolith+ and the Monoprice Monolith THX 15 makes it look like a children's toy.

Yes, the Arendal side firing is an issue. Arendal reccomend 8-10cm of clearance and that is something which turned me off the brand.

I'd ask KK just how much clearance they reccomend the driver having. Arendal explaiend the closer it is to a wall, the more the sound changes and obviously they've engineered the woofer to have a certain sound. I'm guessing KK have the similar design principles in which case it'd be interesting to hear their response on this and what makes their subs different if its not an issue.


PSA make some amazing subs and if you can afford them, I think they're an amazing brand to consider if you need the sub front firing.
 

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