Which DALI speakers for Denon X3800?

EUPremier

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Hi Folks,

I’m looking for advice please on DALI L&R speakers for a system I’m about to order…

I’ve recently renovated the family TV room. Did the ‘deep retrofit’ thing with air-tightness membranes & draft-proof boxes in the ceiling to seal downlighters & speakers to reduce heat loss.
During this I installed Norstone B250 speaker cable & 2x DALI E80 in-ceiling speakers for my atmos channels.
While the rectangular room measures 7m x 4.5m (23Ft x 15ft) the TV area is down at one end, across the short wall, so the seating area is approx 3.5m /12ft from the LG 65” OLED TV.
The width of the wall space the TV is centred-on is 3.5m /12Ft also.

Two factors have governed my choice of DALIs:

1. Have limited space behind seating area so on-wall is required. Bookshelf speakers will be too bulky. As a result, I ended-up leaning toward Dali Oberon on-wall pair for my two rear effect channels.

2. I was able to get DALI E80s at short notice for the ceiling. Tonal balancing means I want to stay in the same family of speakers.

Amp:

I have had B&W 60x speakers in a 5.1 setup for two decades driven by a Yamaha A2 and found the system to be very good.

I would have opted for Yamaha again except the A4A is too large to fit in the cabinet /cable hide we have wall-mounted under TV. Also, they appear to be behind the curve currently with room correction software.

So, I’ve decided to run with Denon X3800.

Other speakers:

Sub: Going up a gear to the DALI K-14 F as I understand it’s a solid choice and will ‘lift’ the system somewhat.

Centre channel: Leaning towards Opticon Vokal as it’s reasonably priced. The Rubicon Vokal is 3x the price and hard to justify when I’ve the rest of the house to removate! 🙈

So, the summary so far is:

1. I’ve enjoyed 20yrs with Yamaha & B&W for Home Theatre & some HiFi listening.
2. New 5.1.2 system will hinge on a Denon X3800 with:
DALI Opticon Vokal Centre
DALI Oberon on-wall to rear
DALI K-14F Sub
DALI E80 Ceiling pair for Atmos

However, I’m somewhat stuck when it comes to the Front Left & Right speakers:

I’m inclined to opt for a pair of DALI Opticon 6 MKIIs. But, Oberon 9s have been suggested by my dealer. And, during very brief auditions in less-than-ideal circumstances:

A. Felt the Opticon 6 MKIIs were a wee bit ‘bright’ and lacking mid-range compared to a side-by-side shootout with B&W 603s. That said, I did not have time to adjust Amp settings to my flavour. And, my thoughts may have been coloured by staff opinions who suggested sharp vocals can sound crashy with the ribbon tweeters.

B. The Oberon 7s sounded good in the same test environment.

C. Cannot go B&W as rears need to be on-wall and B&W don't have a solution for this. (Stuck now with DALI to ceiling anyway)

Question:

So, there’s no doubt the system will, in the main, be used for Home Cinema. I listen to music mainly in the car or on convenient Sonos speakers around the house. The amount of time I’d have to be parked on the sofa listening to music will be practically non-existent. I do value HiFi quality and find SONOS to be rubbish-sounding but they win on convenience for my Spotify music source.

Aesthetics are a small concern and was planning on choosing white colour on all speakers. Oberon 9 are not available in white. (Colour is less important than quality though).

So, I’m torn between Oberon 9 & Opticon 6 MKII & Opticon 8 MKII.

Should I consider Opticon LCR on-wall speakers for my two rears instead of Oberon or is it a waste of money for ‘just’ two rear effect channels.

Sorry for the lengthy message but wanted to give the full picture.

Any advice appreciated… what should I do?
 
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My thoughts:

Opticon 6 (or 8!) MK2 for the front L&R; paired with the matching Opticon Vokal. There's also no need to brand match the surrounds to the front LCR either. So the fact you cannot get B&W on wall for rears, should not be a determining factor (if you wanted to go B&W for front L&R duties). Although, I would get the matching B&W centre.
 
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Really appreciate your input, Jester. I did not know that ‘tonal balance’ was irrelevant to surrounds. Great to know.
Would you have any advice on solid alternatives …less inclined to trust WhatHiFi as nobody seems to agree that their Award-winning Wharfedales are actually any good.
Would you opt fot B&W up front (including centre)?
Sub, K-14F okay?
 
Really. As far as speaker choice is concerned, it's best to demo a selection. Only you (and your ears) can decide if you like their sound etc.

To that end, I've never liked B&W's sound signature. Before deciding on my current Monitor Audio Silver setup, I demo'd the previous gen Dali Opticons and some Kef Q350's. It was a close call between the Dali's and MA's (with the latter just winning out).

The centre speaker (in a surround setup) is imo probably the most important of all - as it portrays over 80% of a movies soundtrack. Surprisingly though, this importance is often over looked! The ribbon tweeter on the opticons is imo it's USP, but does invoke a "marmite" response (ie you either love it or hate it!).

I've not heard the Oberon 9's - but many have said they are a speaker that punches well above its price point. If you went this route though, I'd get the matching Oberon Vokal for centre duties.

Since I mentioned Monitor Audio - I'd recommend a demo of their Silver 300's (matching centre is the C250). These are true 3 way speakers - which helps with vocals imo. I'll add that some do find the metal tweeters in them to be a little "bright". Although this is not a characteristic I've personally noted.

Subwoofer: Just like the surrounds, there's no need to brand match the sub. In fact I'd recommend you don't get any brand matched sub. There are far better value (in both cost and performance) from dedicated sub manufacturers like SVS, BK or Monolith.

Have a look at the various subwoofer threads on here for info. The best value to performance at the moment is imo a sub from Monolith. Even their 10" sub would outperform (and cost less) than the Dali you mention. Or BK:

 
Kef R series might also be worth considering. An awful lot depends on budget and room size. The Denon 3800 is a very good AVR (to build your system from).

Could you post some pictures or a plan of the proposed room and layout too?
 
@EUPremier i sent you private message (PM) earlier in the day about few subwoofer deals to look at. You are new member and i see you haven´t read the message yet so look up the on black forum "bar" right hand side where you see your forum name then you see letter and bell icons next to it with Search function. Press on the letter to read my message to you. Feel free to reply below the text there. There is so many better options than the expensive K-14F which i explain why that is. 👍
 
Kef R series might also be worth considering. An awful lot depends on budget and room size. The Denon 3800 is a very good AVR (to build your system from).

Could you post some pictures or a plan of the proposed room and layout too?
+1. I’ve become a bit of a fan of Kef speakers recently, based on they sound compared to others.
 
@EUPremier i sent you private message (PM) earlier in the day about few subwoofer deals to look at. You are new member and i see you haven´t read the message yet so look up the on black forum "bar" right hand side where you see your forum name then you see letter and bell icons next to it with Search function. Press on the letter to read my message to you. Feel free to reply below the text there. There is so many better options than the expensive K-14F which i explain why that is. 👍
Will reply shortly. Thank you for message.
 
Kef R series might also be worth considering. An awful lot depends on budget and room size. The Denon 3800 is a very good AVR (to build your system from).

Could you post some pictures or a plan of the proposed room and layout too?

Here are photos I took quickly this evening and one I had taken during the day. Pls excuse mess… young kids. And the room is not yet complete.
The LCR are due to go against the blue wall facing soda at that end. If you pay coose attention, you’ll see the wires for the rears poking out.
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Really. As far as speaker choice is concerned, it's best to demo a selection. Only you (and your ears) can decide if you like their sound etc.

To that end, I've never liked B&W's sound signature. Before deciding on my current Monitor Audio Silver setup, I demo'd the previous gen Dali Opticons and some Kef Q350's. It was a close call between the Dali's and MA's (with the latter just winning out).

The centre speaker (in a surround setup) is imo probably the most important of all - as it portrays over 80% of a movies soundtrack. Surprisingly though, this importance is often over looked! The ribbon tweeter on the opticons is imo it's USP, but does invoke a "marmite" response (ie you either love it or hate it!).

I've not heard the Oberon 9's - but many have said they are a speaker that punches well above its price point. If you went this route though, I'd get the matching Oberon Vokal for centre duties.

Since I mentioned Monitor Audio - I'd recommend a demo of their Silver 300's (matching centre is the C250). These are true 3 way speakers - which helps with vocals imo. I'll add that some do find the metal tweeters in them to be a little "bright". Although this is not a characteristic I've personally noted.

Subwoofer: Just like the surrounds, there's no need to brand match the sub. In fact I'd recommend you don't get any brand matched sub. There are far better value (in both cost and performance) from dedicated sub manufacturers like SVS, BK or Monolith.

Have a look at the various subwoofer threads on here for info. The best value to performance at the moment is imo a sub from Monolith. Even their 10" sub would outperform (and cost less) than the Dali you mention. Or BK:

Thanks again Jester for the valuable input. I’m listening carefully on the importance of the centre channel. I would happily pay for an Opticon Vokal but you’d advise a downgrade to Oberon Vokal if the L&R are Oberon, because of the differing tweeter tech I imagine?

As for demos… have had very bad experiences with that here in Ireland. Limited number of shops selling this kind of kit now and their demo ‘rooms’ are shop floors and one is conscious that nobody else can hear themselves think while one is stretching the legs of the speakers on-test.

I simply will not be able to roadtest MA, KEF, DALI & B&W side by side. Alas.
 
+1. I’ve become a bit of a fan of Kef speakers recently, based on they sound compared to others.
I have KEF Q300s driven by a Marantz P6001 (I think that’s the model) and I was never overly impressed by them. I have always liked my B&W 603s tho. I’ve always fancied the 703 with the Tweeter-on-top setup but they’re silly money.
 
Kef R series might also be worth considering. An awful lot depends on budget and room size. The Denon 3800 is a very good AVR (to build your system from).

Could you post some pictures or a plan of the proposed room and layout too?
The viewing area is 3.5m x 4.5m -but is part of a larger room, see photos.
As for budget:
I have the DALI E80s installed, so done with them.
Prepared to spend another £5000 -£6000 approx on:

Amp
LCR
Sub
2x Rear.
 
Thanks again Jester for the valuable input. I’m listening carefully on the importance of the centre channel. I would happily pay for an Opticon Vokal but you’d advise a downgrade to Oberon Vokal if the L&R are Oberon, because of the differing tweeter tech I imagine?
Yes thats pretty much my rationale. Opticon Vokal if going Opticon for L&R, Oberon Vokal if going Oberon L&R. Matching will ensure same tonality across the front stage. Especially important if the audio track pans from left to right!

In terms of model higherachy, the Opticon range are considered a step up in quality versus the Oberon. The Opticons I demo'd sounded fantastic as I said previously.

The Kef R range get a lot of love (quite rightly) too. I've not listened to the R series though, so will leave other to comment.

Also it's worth remembering any speaker you buy will take some time to "run in" and sound their best. Also your ears will get used to any subtle differences in the sound. It's quite possible the Opticons (for example) will be tamed somewhat I'm terms of brightness.

If it were my money, I'd go with the Opticons and get a demo of the Kef R floorstanders to compare. However, since you like your existing B&W's, you could go that route.

As for demos… have had very bad experiences with that here in Ireland. Limited number of shops selling this kind of kit now and their demo ‘rooms’ are shop floors and one is conscious that nobody else can hear themselves think while one is stretching the legs of the speakers on-test.
I hear you on the Demo dilemma. With the sort of money you'd be looking to invest in speakers though, I'd certainly try to get at least something on home demo if at all possible! Thankfully I've a very good relationship with my local Richersounds, so don't have issues with demo's etc.

The viewing area is 3.5m x 4.5m -but is part of a larger room, see photos.
I've seen the pictures of your room (lovely btw). Do you already have the 3800 amp? I also notice from reading your 1st post, you favour white speakers. If you want the sub(s) to match colour wise, your options will be BK, Arendal or SVS. I know @Gasp3621 is talking subs though, so will leave that to him. He's probably already suggested dual subs in that space too 😂😉
 
Thank you re the room. We’re renovating an entire home we bought a year ago, one room at a time … windows next and a lot of insulation etc… soaking-up the AV budget! 🙈🙈🙈

I have not yet bought anything other then the DALI E80s which are already fitted. Intend to order all at once to increase chance of a haircut on the price.

I’m very seriously considering the Opticon 6 MKIIs. But, I’m wondering l, given your emphasis on the centre channel quality, if I should consider putting the Rubicon Vokal in, instead of the Opticon Vokal. They have the same tech apparently. Thoughts? Perhaps you consider the Opticon Vokal good enough?

Yes @Gasp3621 …he’s a mine of info! :)

I could use savings on the sub and put it in the centre channel.
 
Regarding subs, I can vouch for SVS being a great choice. I have a PB2000 Pro and love it. Would be ideal to get a second one, reduces potential nulls, maybe that would work in your space, I just couldn't get it over the waf line.

As others have already said, advise against going with those made by speaker manufacturers such as DALI, B&W, MA etc. - far inferior subwoofers, no sub-20hz bass from them, sometimes struggle to hit much below 30hz. They seem to offer them more for aesthetics and perception than performance.

Stick with SVS, Monoprice Monolith, Rythmik
 
Thanks Matty. Really appreciate the input. I am definitely going to look at those and probably Arendal too.
 
Update:

Thanks to @Gasp3621 I have secured great value and bought a pair of B&W 702 S2. I have also ordered a B&W centre speaker: HTM71 S3.
Probably going to go with Monitor Audio Silver FX 7G for on-wall rears.
My Atmos pair are already in-situ and are DALI E80.

Need advice on Amps:

I think I’m going to eschew X3800 in favour of either Cinema 50 or the Japanese-made, Cinema 40.

Any feels on this?
 
Denon tries to be neutral/flat, whereas Marantz deliberately has a sound signature.

Component-wise, I'm sure the Cinema 40 will have more premium hardware than the X3800 but I doubt there's much between the Cinema 50 and X3800.

Marantz tends toward using HDAM tech (I don't really know what it is/does), which apparently doesn't measure that well but is probably not audible differences. I'm not sure what the advertised perks are, think it may be more for differentiation than performance.

Just some comparisons/observations. Best to do some listening tests if you can - you need to find what you like because they'll all be great products, let's face it.

I have a Denon X1600H (entry level) atm. I'm really happy with it but I plan to get an X8500HA in January (top of the range), because I'll get a bit of cash then and want a new toy.
 
Hi guys,

MX to all ...

I have bought Denon 3700 just befor 3800 goes on the market.

Speakers are Dali 5005 series. For music Denon is not as I like so I conected my old Harman Kardon 5500 to L&R front & SUB just for music. I know that the wors idea to put together two AWR. So the Denon is used only for Centre and L&R back Dali speakers.

Front stage is made for the rock & hard rock plenty of earth shaking Harman power. When looking some home cinema stuff is just enough to using 3700.

Denon & Dali goes together hand in hand. Amazing sound with out aditional PowerAMP PreAMP.

As per your core questino which speakers you shoul choose ... If you have a chance bring it home and try it at home, cause in listening rooms by your dealer there is different environment than in your room.

Good luck with your choice and remember that owerpowering your room would be a problem as underpowering it.
 
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So, thanks to @Gasp3621 I got a deal on the B&W 702 S2 and paired them with a B&W HTM71 S3. I’m hoping the tonal balancing witll be okay

The cabinet was custom made by a local tradesman. It features hidden vents underneath and perforated aluminium panels (painted to match) to allow air circulation. They were laser-cut for cable-ways.

Happy with it but I’m going to let funds recover before getting the Amp (Arcam AVR 30 or 31).

TV is LG OLED GX65.
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