which calibration meter?

cypher007

Active Member
want to do TV's and projectors round my house. read the colourmunki is ok, but seems theres about 3 types which one should I get or do I need something more powerful? are these going to work with my future TV's like hdr 4k and oled?
 

Peter Parker

Distinguished Member
Speak to RickyJ at Kalibrate. He's the Chromapure distributor for the UK and can suggest which meter and software options would suit your needs best. I think they represent great value and the support is excellent.

Or you can go down the DIY route using HFCR software (free) and a compatible meter, plus the website and forum support is pretty big too. Here is one link that should be useful:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...e-projector-display-calibration-software.html

After a quick look I can't seem to find the HCFR threads on this forum, but there should be plenty of local support if you go down the DIY route.

Gary
 

Paul Hayward

Active Member
Hi Gary, how are you. I am about to email you in fact. Completely agree talking to Ricky is the best way forward. I have the Chromapure package with the i1pro meter has it has been an excellent calibration system. So much so that I was at a friends last night watching Terminator Genesis on this 11ft wide screen with an Epson 9000. Frankly the colours looked irradiated because he liked a bright image. I noticed this precisely because I have a calibrated projector and am used to looking at more natural colours.
 

Peter Parker

Distinguished Member
Hi Paul,

I'm good thanks - hope you are too.

The laptop I have with Colorfacts on it has died (won't power up) so I'll probably be going the Chromapure route too (no point until my room is up and running so that's why i've let it all lapse). I have an old tristimulus meter from CF and an i1Pro like yourself, but with Ricky just up the road, it makes sense for me to get a complete package from him.

Like you, I like an accurate picture if possible, so you know what you see is as it should be. Then you don't have to worry about the colours looking wrong because you know that's what is on the disk, and not your display needing tweaking.

And don't forget, it's your fault that I got into Colorfacts and calibration anyway - you brought it round to Jeffs all those years ago and it completely blew my mind what it could do (and made my SMART package look positively Jurassic). You and Jeff have a lot to answer for between you!! :)

Look forward to the email.

Cheers

Gary
 

cypher007

Active Member
I was hoping to not spend more than maybe £140. I did see someone manged to get a i1d pro for this sort of money. is there any point in going for this sort of meter over a colour monki or spyder?

or am I not gonna see much improvement over the projectors defaults?
 

IMDNT

Novice Member
I'm also interested in acquiring a meter, but will wait until JVC update which are compatible with their new Autocal software for the Xx000 series. At the moment it's supposed to be the Spyder 4, but that has been superseded, is pretty hard to come by, and is reputed to be inconsistent in it's accuracy from one unit to the next.
Work in progress.
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
I am only starting out myself, but from what I can gather...

The two kinds of colormunki are quite different. Current models are colormunki display (colorimeter) and colormunki photo / design (spectrometer). These work in quite different ways, and for many display types you actually "need" both kinds of meter for accurate calibration. The reason is that the colorimeter works pretty well at low light levels, but is only calibrated against certain kinds of display (you select a profile to use, of which several are shipped with the colorimeter). For many display types you really need to create a calibration for the particular colorimeter / display combination against measurements from the spectrometer. Spectrometers don't need to be calibrated against particular display types, but don't work well at low light levels which are needed for a full calibration, and are quite slow; but as the calibration for the colorimeter is done with bright patches, they are suitable for that purpose.

My understanding is that colormunki display, despite being the same basic hardware as the i1 display Pro (often known as i1d3), is knobbled in terms of it's measurement speed (a hardwired 1s delay I think). If you are going to be reading 100's or 1000's of patches it makes quite a difference (eg generating a 3DLUT, or doing an in-depth report of your calibration), but I guess if you are just doing basic calibration it would be OK.

Colormunki display also can only be used with x-rites own SW (not suitable for home cinema calibration) or ArgyllCMS based "free" software, like the excellent HCFR colorimeter and dispcalgui. You get a bit more flexibility with the i1d3 meter as there is more support from commercial SW - though the retail supplied meters only work "officially" with some commercial SW - and need a workaround for Lightspace, for example. OEM i1d3 meters work with 3rd party SW fine without workaround, but don't work with X-rites own SW (not a big deal for HC use).

I think, all things considered, that the i1d3 meter represents better value for money. There is a place on ebay in Germany knocking out an OEM version of 13d3 meter for about £90 delivered. They are from a kit for calibrating Toshiba TVs and come in a useful aluminium carry case; but I don't know if they have been locked to Toshiba's own software and I don't know how to find out.

You should also think about how you're going to get the patterns onto the screen for testing. Using a bluray disk to play them is a pain as you keep having to change image; you can use a laptop with an HDMI output; or alternatively a Chromecast is quite a nifty way of getting the patterns on the screen if you are using HCFR or dispcalgui (or Argyll from the command line). Chromecast isn't 100% accurate, but the difference was measured by someone who knows far more than I as being imperceptible to the eye.
 
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Russ 66

Well-known Member
My vote would also be the ID3 and Chromapure from Ricky. A little bit more than you want to spend but the sensor and software are excellent.
You would have to spend a lot more money on a colourimeter to beat the ID3.

Also using the Chromapure Blu Ray disc is really easy as the patterns are all there in the order required by Chromapure. You could argue that it is a more accurate way than using a pattern generator as you are using the actual source.

I don't know why more people don't give it a go, it really is straightforward and the potential image improvements are huge.
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
I don't know why more people don't give it a go, it really is straightforward and the potential image improvements are huge.
Agree; calibrating my cheap, second hand projector has given me picture quality I am sure far in excess of what an uncalibrated, much more expensive unit can achieve; and these are tools I can use again and again when I come to upgrading, to ensure I get the very best quality possible.

I must say that having invested in an eecolor 3DLUT box, that the gains from that (on my display at least) are of a similar magnitude to going from uncalibrated to calibrated.

I guess, from reading their website, that one of the big benefits of the meter from Chromapure is the extra calibration matrices they provide for "difficult" displays, which removes / reduces the requirement for a spectrometer.
 

Russ 66

Well-known Member
I must say that having invested in an eecolor 3DLUT box, that the gains from that (on my display at least) are of a similar magnitude to going from uncalibrated to calibrated.
Aren't these being sold cheap at the moment?
I thought I read that the next version of Chromapure will work it I will have to have a look.
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Yes, I have two now; one I bought new via ConnecTEDDD's displaycalibrations website to do my projector, and one I bought off another forum member here which was too good a deal to miss - I'm going to use that on my TV. I think they are great value at the moment. Very much a single function device; but you can achieve colour fidelity results which will be impossible on all but the very best display devices.

I've attached a quick measurement report after spending an hour and a bit with an i1d3 running about 1200 patches with dispcalgui / ArgyllCMS to generate a 3DLUT into the eecolor box. Other than my shot green primary (characteristic of the PJ, nothing's going to fix that) - it looks pretty much spot on to me.
 

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cypher007

Active Member
found out my work has a colour monki photo. I'm gonna borrow it to have a go at my proj. I'm guessing it will look better than out of the box at least.

questions, the software has some advanced luminance settings one is d65, is this the setting I need for cinema? do I need to set the background luminance with the projector on or off?
 

cypher007

Active Member
that's £180 but I'm not sure what all the other options are. what would I need to calibrate my proj and tv? plus I run my tv and proj from pc's, what about if I feed them from a blu ray player? presumably id have to alter the settings on the projector and tv not change the display profile.
 

cypher007

Active Member
tried the colour munki on my work screen and laptop at home. hmm the results seem washed out to me. the whites seem almost grey on the monitor and the colours on the laptop not so punchy. I used the ambient light at work and just easy setting for my home laptop.
 

Russ 66

Well-known Member
Along with the meter you would need also need the standard version of Chromapure and I would also recommend the upgraded pro version, you get the pattern disc with the pro meter.
You would also need a tripod or similar to mount the meter on.

With the pro version the meter is tested against a very expensive and accurate Jeti spectroradiometer. From this an offset table is generated for the meter. This is then loaded in Chromapure.

The meter can drift over time but you can send it back to be profiled again.
 

zAndy1

Distinguished Member
I'm in the market for a meter and software as well but am I right in thinking it's £319 from kalibrate for the I1d3 meter with chromapure standard and the upgraded meter (but confused about that as the product page says 'i1 display pro retail' for £179 but then adds £50 for the upgrade (pro) version, what's that about then? £319 is a bit more than I wanted to pay really, was going to get something for less than £200 :(
 

Russ 66

Well-known Member
I'm in the market for a meter and software as well but am I right in thinking it's £319 from kalibrate for the I1d3 meter with chromapure standard and the upgraded meter (but confused about that as the product page says 'i1 display pro retail' for £179 but then adds £50 for the upgrade (pro) version, what's that about then? £319 is a bit more than I wanted to pay really, was going to get something for less than £200 :(
Yes it is badly worded, the meter is the retail one rather than an OEM one.
You want the retail meter and preferably the pro upgraded version which is extra.
It is expensive but is not much more than a calibration. With a projector as the lamp ages you can check the calibration whenever you want which would cost a lot to get a calibrator out all of the time.
I don't think for one minute I am as good as a pro calibrator, they use much better equipment and have years of experience but my picture looks a lot better than it did not calibrated.

I can borrow a copy of chroma pure v2.4, so do I just need the meter or meter and £50 upgrade (pro).
I think you need to give Ricky at Kalibrate a call.
 

cypher007

Active Member
tried the munki photo on the Epson. then looked at the before and after and could see hardly any difference. I'm wondering if the Epson on eco is already pretty close.
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
I think you could perhaps find the following howto's from Curt Palme useful.

One is based around using Chromapure:
CHROMAPURE GRAYSCALE & COLOR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES

And the other guide is using the free HCFR software:
GREYSCALE & COLOUR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES (OLD VERSION)

One of the reasons for using a meter in the first place is to gain an objective measure of the current performance of your setup, which you can then test your adjustments against. It isn't clear from your last post what if anything you are doing to calibrate it, what software you are actually using, what your playback sources are, etc.
 

zAndy1

Distinguished Member
Is it worth paying the £50 extra for the upgraded pro meter rather than the standard pro meter or will the standard one do the job?
 

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