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Which cables

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Tintin, Mar 31, 2001.

  1. Tintin

    Tintin
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    Does anyone have any suggestion regarding types of cables, makes etc...

    I need to connect 2 KEF Q55 front speakers, Q95 Centre Channel, REL Q200 Sub, Sony DVD Player & Philips TV to my Sony AV STR-DB930 amp.
    I am also thinking of upgrading the budget scart lead which connects my DVD player to my TV in order to improve the picture quality.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. Qdog

    Qdog
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    Pandoras Box

    Interconnects--yes, worth the money. Speaker cable--NO! Get Home Depot 12 ga zip cord & enjoy. Think it's about .12/ft.
     
  3. Guest

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    Is speaker cable *really* as overrated as I've heard it is? With a Yamaha AX-2 amp and a set of B&W 600 series speakers will I hear the difference between 49p/m 2 core PA cable and £5/m 'audiophile' cable?
     
  4. Guest

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    I think spending about 5/m on speaker cables can be justified. I as using Gale cable about £1.50/m b4 upgrading to Cable Talk 3.1 at £2.50/m and now I'm using QED cable at £5/m.

    The sound quality has definately changed, especially where the surrounds and centre channel are concerned.

    If I was into real audiophile equipment and listening to top quality separates, I would definately spend more. But who needs a decent cable in a home cinema set up. £5/m max that'll do ya.

    Its worth spending money on decent interconnects between DVD and amp and DVD and TV. I was using a Vivanco cable I got free when I subscribed to HCC, ditched it for an IXOS cable, which brought some excellent results via RGB. Its worth spending the extra casg on the interconnects.

    Richer Sounds will allow you to try out speaker cables at home, and Musical Images have been good at allowing me to try interconnects at home. Hope this helps!!!!

    Cheers


    Paul
     
  5. Guest

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    I think spending about 5/m on speaker cables can be justified. I as using Gale cable about £1.50/m b4 upgrading to Cable Talk 3.1 at £2.50/m and now I'm using QED cable at £5/m.

    The sound quality has definately changed, especially where the surrounds and centre channel are concerned.

    If I was into real audiophile equipment and listening to top quality separates, I would definately spend more. But who needs a decent cable in a home cinema set up. £5/m max that'll do ya.

    Its worth spending money on decent interconnects between DVD and amp and DVD and TV. I was using a Vivanco cable I got free when I subscribed to HCC, ditched it for an IXOS cable, which brought some excellent results via RGB. Its worth spending the extra casg on the interconnects.

    Richer Sounds will allow you to try out speaker cables at home, and Musical Images have been good at allowing me to try interconnects at home. Hope this helps!!!!

    Cheers


    Paul
     
  6. Tintin

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    Sorry for the belated reply but I have been away for the last couple of weeks.
    Thanks to everyone for their advice.
    I think I will be getting some QED Bronze cables for my speakers, a tailor made REL cable (11 meters!) for the sub, a coaxial cable for the DVD player and interconnect one for the TV.
     
  7. Stuart M. Robinson

    Stuart M. Robinson
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    Confucius,

    “I recently upgraded from a bi-wire 'van den Hul M.C. CS 122 / Absolute Wire - Force 4' combo (@ £120 for 3 x 3m pairs) to Monster Z3 Reference (@ $500 - £350 - for 3 x 3m) for my front 3 speakers. Not a whole lot of difference, but more than an interconnect upgrade; about as much as going from a mid price AV amp to a top of the line model.”

    Whoa! Reality check! Audible differences between cables have never been proven under controlled conditions, even when cable manufacturers have taken part in such tests using their choice of cable and hardware. Those conducting sighted tests always claim to be able to hear differences, largely because of psychological suggestion, and this is born out by the huge percentage of those who purchase more expensive cable claiming it sounds “better”.

    But, let’s assume for argument’s sake that there are audible differences between cables, the magnitude of those differences would be infinitesimal and certainly far removed from the real and substantial differences between a mid-priced receiver to a ‘high-end’ design.


    Stuart M. Robinson
    SMR Group – http://www.smr-group.co.uk/
     
  8. Charlie Whitehouse

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    Stuart said:

    Stuart, out of interest, could you point us at the results of some of these blind tests? In all sorts of walks of life you come across the cliche 'scientific tests prove...' but seldom do you see the actual source cited or whether the results have been properly peer-reviewed and published. I, and I suspect a few others here, would be genuinely interested to look at the experiment design and the results of these tests before making up our own minds.

    Confucius didn't say 'high-end', he said 'top of the line' by which I assume he meant the top of that manufacturer's amp/receiver line. Either way, I think he probably exaggerates the difference that cables might make in a system but I certainly wouldn't describe the differences as infinitesimal.

    In the meantime I am happy to join Confucius in enjoying the benefits of our mass delusion!! Blimey Stuart, you'll be telling me next the world is actually spherical, not flat!! :D :D :D

    C.
     
  9. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Whoa. Good advice, in fact VERY good advice. This is worth listening to guys. I fell for this for many years but have learned. If you are happy fine but....the truth is out there
     
  10. Stuart M. Robinson

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    Charlie,

    “…out of interest, could you point us at the results of some of these blind tests? In all sorts of walks of life you come across the cliche 'scientific tests prove...' but seldom do you see the actual source cited or whether the results have been properly peer-reviewed and published. I, and I suspect a few others here, would be genuinely interested to look at the experiment design and the results of these tests before making up our own minds.”

    Sure. Perhaps the best source of information that fits your criteria (the requirement of peer-review and detailed test explanations) would be the AES, so in that case, ‘Hearing is Believing vs. Believing is Hearing: Blind vs. Sighted Listening Tests, and Other Interesting Things’ by Floyd E. Toole (AES pre-print 3894) would be a good place to start, and then for a background on blind testing principals try ‘High Resolution Subjective Testing Using a Double Blind Comparator’ by David Clark (AES pre-print 1771) and ‘Statistical Analysis of Double-Blind Tests for Multiple Audiences’ by Dr. Poh Ser Hsu (AES pre-print 2515). There have also been journal articles, but I’ll need to dig through my copies to find them.

    If you give me a day or two, I’ll also try to find some of the more reputable magazine articles published on the subject over the years, including the infamous test of one particular cable manufacturer.

    I’d also like to point folks towards ‘A Wee Touch of Science: A Sure Cure for the "I Heard It" Disease’ by Len Schneider at: http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Schneider/ - an article which sums up the situation perfectly in my opinion.

    I may have mentioned this before, so apologies if the next couple of paragraphs are superfluous, but one reason why I always refuse to test wire or be associated with sighted tests is that whenever I’m involved in controlled tests, the listeners, myself included, always fail to identify any differences between loudspeaker cable or interconnects.

    I’ve been carrying around a piece of 1 metre Audio Note silver Litz cable (£1,000) for years, telling journalists and distributors that they can keep the cable if they’re able to tell it apart from a piece of ~£20 cable in a casual but controlled test. It’s a win-win situation because if they can’t spot the Audio Note I get to keep it, and if the do identify it correctly we’re both famous and can command a huge fee from the likes of Monster for our work. Needless to say, after any number of tests, I still have the cable.

    My cable advice is always to purchase something with a high standard of construction (so that the ends don’t fall off and you don’t get too much RF interference), of sufficient gauge and the correct impedance (75ohm for digital links for example). Something in the £20-50 range should fit the bill; anything more is completely unnecessary.


    Stuart M. Robinson
    SMR Group – http://www.smr-group.co.uk/
     
  11. Charlie Whitehouse

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    Stuart,

    Thanks for the references. I've ordered the AES pre-prints you mentioned - $20 and 2-4 weeks' delivery time though.

    Meanwhile a little bedtime reading with Len Schneider.... :eek:

    C.
     
  12. Guest

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    I dont think it should be in any doubt that some cables sound different from other.......not necesarily sound better! And not only in highend setups! I have found that the most expensive cables are without doubt the most neutral, and add the least to the signal they recieve. That said, in lower levels systems it is sometimes actually good to use colored cables as they can effetively alter the nature of the speakers, which when u thinks about it just gives you more ways to tweak the sound and get a better match!

    so the best way is definitely to try all sorts of all prices of cables and let YOUR ears, not your eyes or wallet decide!
     
  13. Stuart M. Robinson

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    mad4sound,

    “I dont think it should be in any doubt that some cables sound different from other...”

    Re-read my posts, real differences between cables are in doubt, they have never been proven in any blind, controlled tests, just as the existence of the Tooth Fairy and Loch Ness Monster have never been proven.

    “I have found that the most expensive cables are without doubt the most neutral, and add the least to the signal they recieve.”

    Why do you think that is? Is there something magical about their electrical construction? Also, how did you arrive at your conclusions, under sighted casual listening conditions?

    “That said, in lower levels systems it is sometimes actually good to use colored cables as they can effetively alter the nature of the speakers, which when u thinks about it just gives you more ways to tweak the sound and get a better match!”

    Uh-oh. That’s the absolute worst reason for purchasing a cable, or any component for that matter, other than an equaliser. What you’re advocating is the introduction of a passive filter of unknown characteristics and categorising it as a benefit, which even if cable differences did exist, would be a dangerous business.

    If the bass from a set of loudspeakers is weak, move them an inch or two. If their imaging is poor, address early reflections from nearby boundaries. Folks shouldn’t believe that a cable will alter either characteristics, they should concentrate instead on acoustic (real) system influences, and yet I hear folks claim that cables will cure both ills. It’s nonsense, perpetuated by salesmen and manufacturers who are well aware of the huge mark-up placed on cables. We (consumers) really should know better, after all we’re long since past the ‘Emperor’s new clothes’ stage. Aren’t we?


    Stuart M. Robinson
    SMR Group – http://www.smr-group.co.uk/
     
  14. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    OK I'm going to fly against scientific convention here. Cables can make a difference.

    Follow the equipment manufacturers guidelines when choosing interconnects and speaker cable. Certain amplifier manufacturers, for instance Naim Audio, use the electrical characteristics of their speaker cable to keep the amplifier stable. Use of bi-wire or esoteric cables can cause these amps to suffer high freqency oscillation and in some cases catastrophic failure. So follow the instructions on the packet.

    Poor design and manufacture of interconnects can result in expensive worse sounding cables. Lack of inappropriate screening for instance, or poor quality soldering.

    I have found that getting the correct cable for the job is not expensive though. There are a lot of folk out there who would have you believe otherwise. For the most part they are all very sincere, well those I've met anyway. That doesn't mean either they or I am right though.

    Gordon
     
  15. Guest

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    ok ok.......i apologise! It was a kinda heavy handed post on my part, but my points still stand.
    I have listened to different cables, and i can hear very audible difference.....then again, you must remember i am using quite a good hifi system and very very minor things are audible within. Oh and dont think for a second i would actually use colored cables, i was only saying it is an option if necessary!
     
  16. Charlie Whitehouse

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    Having read this article myself now, I can't argue with Confucius' verdict. I won't get the other documents cited by Stuart for a few weeks yet but I suspect all they will do is sing the virtues of double-blind testing. You can't really argue against DBT as an ideal; the problem(advantage) is it is so difficult to achieve in practice. It therefore gives all HLO's a convenient get-out whenever some so-called evidence of the audible benefits of some B-S technology comes along - they can just criticise the testing methodology and all's well with the world (flat or whatever)!

    Some HLOs seem to rant on like religious fundamentalists defending their faith from heresy. Just try calling a DTS CD a CD to Stuart and see what happens. There, I've said it! (Jehovah! Jehovah! - remember Life of Brian??). But I digress.

    I thought Gordon was a bit brave stepping into the bearpit like that but of course he is right, and any way he covered himself with his last paragraph (or did he?). While Stuart may argue about the audibility of cable differences, there are definitely measurable electrical differences between them. Capacitance, inductance, resistance both serial and shunt all differ between cables, some of them by several orders of magnitude.

    HFN&RR published the results of a series of tests by Ben Duncan on 15 brands of speaker cable between July '99 and September '99 where he took basic LCR measurements as well as measuring phase shifts in the 1-1.5kHz region at both low and high current levels. The interesting thing was that the phase shifts produced did not match those predicted by the basic LCR data and was different between low and high-current situations. The hypothesis offered was that this was due to a combination of four other factors: skin effect, proximity effect, dielectric absorption and dissipation factors. Clearly, the behaviour of real-world cables is not easily described by simplistic physics.

    For the sake of completeness, I should go on to point out that in the HFN&RR test, a separate listening test was used to rank the cables (not clear if it was sighted or blind but I suspect the former) with a fairly poor correlation to the more objective technical test results. More evidence for Stuart? Possibly.

    Anyway, hopefully Stuart will come up with some real-world examples of good quality blind tests that demonstrate that audible differences aren't. I like to think I'm reasonably open-minded. I've agonised long and hard over whether a particular change to my system is audible or not. In some cases, I haven't been able to detect any difference and have taken the stuff back to the dealers. In others, I've been convinced there's a benefit and that's the best I'm going to be able to manage on my own.

    C.

    P.S. For those that haven't worked it out yet, HLO = Hard Line Objectivist
     
  17. Stuart M. Robinson

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    Folks,

    I’ll try to address a few of these points without rambling on for hours, I think it’s fairly obvious from the thread so far where I stand on this issue.


    Gordon, StereoStereo wrote:

    “Certain amplifier manufacturers, for instance Naim Audio, use the electrical characteristics of their speaker cable to keep the amplifier stable. Use of bi-wire or esoteric cables can cause these amps to suffer high freqency oscillation and in some cases catastrophic failure. So follow the instructions on the packet.”

    Doesn’t that simply boil down to poor design? Some esoteric cables are known to be poorly engineered, to the point of causing load instabilities, but only in a desperate attempt to create something that sounds “different”. MIT cables contain in-line capacitance for that very reason.


    Confucius wrote:

    “The fact is that (many) people do claim to hear those differences; it is not for them to prove those differences - to them the 'audible differences' are proof enough, the onus is on others to prove otherwise, not to pick holes in blind testing methods (IMHO).”

    I think Len approaches the issue from a completely opposite angle (you’ll have to ask him to be sure) as, in fact, do I. The burden of proof should be on those claiming differences, especially if the folks making wild claims are selling products based upon them.

    Use the Tooth Fairy analogy. If someone claimed she existed, they should have some palpable evidence to prove their belief (stayed up all night with a Polaroid – here’s an image), rather than asking a sceptic to disprove her existence, which could take a whole lifetime because, perhaps, she’s never in the same place they am.

    Blind testing (of wire) is the best method we have of both proving differences exist, and disproving them. I mean, if so many people hear differences under casual listening conditions, then it should be possible for them to repeat the exercise under controlled conditions. Simple! Apparently not, because I don’t know of a single test in which those being evaluated have been able to reliably tell one cable apart from another, and this strongly reinforces the absence of demonstrable differences. Without an alternative testing method, I don’t know where we go from here.

    Perhaps my standpoint is due to the reviewing background where I believe it is important to ignore marketing hype and listen to products in a controlled and balanced way to avoid as much bias or uncertainty as possible. Many fantastic claims are made about one product or another, and most of them simply disappear if one approaches the situation with an honest, open mind and modicum of testing methodology. Plus I have the advantage of not needing to psychologically justify an expensive purchase, which may be the source of some bias whenever expensive cables are evaluated?


    Stuart M. Robinson
    SMR Group – http://www.smr-group.co.uk/
     
  18. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Yes Stuart you are right it is poor design.

    However you earlier stated that in scientific tests it's never been proven that there is an audible difference in cables. Then you state that it's well known that some esoteric cables are designed to have certain electrical characteristics to make them sound different.

    So which is it? Are we to presume that what you are saying is that all properly designed cables sound the same. In which case how is the consumer to evaluate what is well designed if one cannot trust ones own ears?

    Should we trust reviewers to choose our systems for us
    ;)

    Gordon

    [ 15-04-2001: Message edited by: Gordon, StereoStereo ]
     
  19. Stuart M. Robinson

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    Confucius,

    I can’t add any more to your part of this discussion, especially as I feel you are trying to turn this into some sort of personal argument, which doesn’t further anyone’s position. I fail to see any belittlement on anyone’s part (intentional or otherwise), and I certainly won’t be drawn into any critique of Len’s piece, especially as he has not had the opportunity to participate here.

    You’re quite right to call for evidence, and if you give me some breathing room I’ll be happy to provide it. But it’s a two-way street, and I’d like to see from you some factual evidence to substantiate your own claims, this is a two-way street, right?

    Electrical conductors do not behave in the same way under all conditions, superconductors being an obvious example, but in our homes we do not suffer wild absolute-zero temperature swings and the differences between C, L and R in the average cable are so small as to be completely undetectable by the human ear, a far less sensitive instrument than a lab bench oscilloscope.

    Why do you think that this argument (for want of less confrontational word) only exists in audiophile circles? If cable has such an impact on a system, why do we not see concerts, recording studios or theatres wired with £500/metre cable? In the last state-of-the-art THX theatre I visited (which contained far greater lengths of cable than we’re likely to see domestically) all the loudspeakers were wired with the equivalent of solid-core 13A mains cable. Nothing more.


    Gordon wrote:

    “…you earlier stated that in scientific tests it's never been proven that there is an audible difference in cables. Then you state that it's well known that some esoteric cables are designed to have certain electrical characteristics to make them sound different.”

    I did indeed, but those electrical differences are not down to the wire per se, which is why I mentioned MIT, who change the electrical characteristics of their cables by introducing electronic components (small passive filters).

    “Are we to presume that what you are saying is that all properly designed cables sound the same.”

    Absolutely, and so they should! Why would anyone want or design a cable that in any way could affect the signal passed through it?

    “Should we trust reviewers to choose our systems for us…”

    ...or snake-oil salesmen? Green pen anyone?


    Stuart M. Robinson
    SMR Group – http://www.smr-group.co.uk/
     
  20. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Stuart,

    I still fail to see how a consumer can make a judgement as to what constitutes a properly designed cable if he or she should not be trusted to evaluate said piece of equipment by listening.

    It seems obvious from this thread that there are audible differences in cables and that they are generally caused by poor design. That these differences are caused intentionally or otherwise is not questioned. That they exist and that some folk find these effects pleasing is quesioned. Which I find bizzare........


    Gordon
     
  21. JohnS

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    So, in conclusion, which speaker cable and interconnects are of sufficent quality for a price increment to no longer have bearing on performance. Should we all be using 79 strand or 2.5mm mains cable or QED silver aniversary or? How much money constitutes a well built cable? :confused:
     
  22. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    John,

    It's frustrating isn't it. What does constitute a well built cable.......

    I'd not spend above £6.00 per metre on speaker cable, £25 gets a good digital incon and £40 - £75 excellent analogue interconnects.

    I've heard a £200 pair of analogue incons that I thought distorted the dsignal less than others but it could have been the nice purple woven cover that confused me......

    Of course, just because a cable costs around £3-£6.00 per metre doesn't mean it's good. I choose by listening, but then I trust my own judgement.

    Gordon
     
  23. JohnS

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    Gordon,

    Thanks, that helps.

    John :)
     
  24. Nic Rhodes

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    Poor Stuart, his stars have taken a battering. But well done for contributing to this debate. Stuart says

    [/QUOTE]
    My cable advice is always to purchase something with a high standard of construction (so that the ends don’t fall off and you don’t get too much RF interference), of sufficient gauge and the correct impedance (75ohm for digital links for example). Something in the £20-50 range should fit the bill; anything more is completely unnecessary.
    [/QUOTE]

    I think this is very good advice. Take for example Tag McLarens S-Video lead. This is a well-regarded high quality lead that retails for £90 (I think). Most people think it fair value for money considering the quality. No complaints of Tag. In fact I think their margins on cables are smaller than most. They use special soldering techniques and high quality plugs. All good. The cable inside the funny jacket is Beldens 1808a. Tag make no secret of this and do not try an disguise the fact. Beldens 1808a is an EXCELLENT S-video cable, and it cost.....yes about £3 / m. Tag picked it because it was the best and there was no point redesigning the wheel. Any dealer could (and should hint?) buy a reel and offer it off the shelf, easily sourced from RS). Quality dealers will happily make leads up for you if you can’t do it well yourself. Now I accept that Tags excellent plugs / special soldering techniques may be worth the extra money but aren’t you tempted? If Tags margins are smaller than most, and most of their cables aren’t sold through dealers but direct, what price is the cable in your leads that are sold through dealers?

    I agree with Gordon that I can hear differences in many different cable types. My observations are not under controlled conditions and levels are not matched, so I think they are meaningless as a scientific experiment and the case still remains un-proven to me under DB controlled conditions. I have found that many high priced cables don’t offer any improvement over good quality HONEST cables, good plugs, well terminated. And here is the rub, good quality cable should only need to cost a few pounds a metre. Stuart advice I believe is therefore well founded.

    I have a set of carbon cables at home that offer no improvement over their copper smaller brother, in fact I think I prefer the later at a third of the price (probably because of the price). I have a wide range of exotica (silver, copper, carbon, solid core and stranded, all highly reviewed to compare / asses). Speaker cables are perhaps worse still. I currently use some van den Hul, the Wind for the front three channels, not because they are any better than anything else, but pride of ownership and I got them very cheap. I connect the rear with solid core cables that is 12p a meter. Basically it is a solid core bell wire (not the nasty stranded stuff widely on sale). It works very well. The core diameter is about that of DNM Reson (0.5mm). It is white an about 3mm x 1mm so is very easy to hide so the wife likes it. I am not aversed to trying something else / better. At 12p / m (or 5p / 100m) everyone can experiment and make up their own mind. People may scoff but have you tried it? Ultimately I don’t consider this cable good quality (build wise) but no one can tell the difference in sound. There is always a certain pride in ownership that most of us don’t want to admit to.

    [/QUOTE]
    What does constitute a well built cable....... I choose by listening, but then I trust my own judgement.
    [/QUOTE]

    That is the million dollar question and I think Gordon also gives excellent advice, just don’t be afraid to admit that there might not be huge differences between relatively cheap wire (<£6 /m) and more expensive wires.
     
  25. General Skanky

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    What a fascinating and educational thread.
    I own all sorts of cheap/expensive cables and thought I had it pegged. Now I don't know. :(
    Just aswell I've turned down the DIY route. I'll never buy expensive cables again, or at least not at the prices slapped on stuff at the moment!
    I have to say a big thanks to Stuart on this thread, it's good to have someone challenge the institution. :)
     
  26. Stuart M. Robinson

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    Folks,

    I promised some references to cable tests where bias was removed, so here we go. Although the conclusions remain the same, I tried to stay away from enthusiast journals and concentrate on mainstream large-scale tests published in respected magazines by recognised journalists. I also narrowed the search by disregarding tests older than a few years since much work has been done on the science of testing and the psychological suggestion involved (see AES paper references earlier in this thread).

    So I’d strongly suggest folks read ‘Wired Wisdom: The Great Chicago Cable Caper’ from the September 1995 edition of Canadian Sound & Vision and ‘To Tweak or Not to Tweak?’ a piece by Tom Nousaine published in the June 1999 edition of Stereo Review. Coincidentally, both magazines have fallen victim to the HFM reign of publishing terror, so I’ll try to make one or two photocopies for those who are particularly interested and can’t obtain copies via other means.

    I also tired to find controlled test that demonstrated conclusively that subjects could identify one cable from another, but as mentioned earlier, I’m still looking. If anyone has or knows of such a work, please let me know. Over to you Confucius.

    Confucius wrote:

    “Using a simple sine wave I'm sure the differences as measured on an oscilloscope would be insignificant. I wonder how it would perform with a more complex waveform, such as a complex passage of music? Has such a test been done? Are the details of the analysis available to Joe Public?

    I know of one test (published a long time ago within a now defunct audio forum) that used pink noise test signals rather than sine waves, but I don’t remember the theory behind it. There is no reason why a complex waveform should produce results any different than those obtained when using a sine wave. If one sweeps a piece of equipment from 1Hz to 25kHz for example, then its measured characteristics will not change if one passes the recording of a symphony orchestra through it, the waveform itself cannot change the characteristics of the hardware unless it has a greater/lesser amplitude, and that doesn’t apply to interconnect or loudspeaker cables where we’re only dealing with small voltages.

    Nic makes an excellent point about the TAG cable (remember TAG are on the forefront of audio engineering). They’ve chosen a Belden simply because it satisfies all stringent design criteria and because TAG can purchase miles of the stuff without it costing £500 per metre.

    If anyone here is handy with a soldering iron, then custom lengths of Belden and some Canare RCA plugs (because they’re 75ohm) soldered onto the ends would produce a cost-effective and high-performance solution to anyone’s cable needs.
    http://www.canare.com/ http://www.belden.com/

    Why put money in the pocket of esoteric cable manufacturers who have to charge extortionate amounts simply because their volumes are so low or their profit margins so high? Those hundreds of pounds saved could be directed towards real-world improvements – better loudspeakers, a bigger subwoofer, acoustic treatments, more software, that kind of thing.


    Stuart M. Robinson
    SMR Group – http://www.smr-group.co.uk/
     
  27. bigalroz

    bigalroz
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    Stuart,

    I've been reading this thread with interest over the last few days. The articles you spoke about copying could you scan them and e-mail them? I'm moving home in the next few months or so and may need to replace my speaker cable. I wouldn't spend loads on new cables anyway but I'd like to read those articles out of general interest.

    Cheers,
     
  28. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Nic,

    That's it. Stuart and I essentially say the same thing. It need not cost the earth to get good quality cables.

    The problem is that there are many companies who claim to re-invent the wheel and charge a premium for it. Our main difference of opinion is that I say they sound different ( in fact often much worse) and he claims there is no scientifically proven difference.

    Now I've got to go and try and fit some mostrously huge 75ohm video cables in to a VGA plug. Doh!

    Gordon
     
  29. General Skanky

    General Skanky
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    :D
    You could have added mains cables too. But only if you are brave enough... :)
     
  30. Charlie Whitehouse

    Charlie Whitehouse
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    Stuart,

    I fear you are going to have to help us out here. I haven't managed to come up with a copy via the web. Has anyone else? Any chance of a scan & e-mail?

    Cheers,
    C.
     

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